hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyaboya on Feb 7, 2016 0:33:52 GMT -5
2 straight goose eggs. Even Hoyatalk whipping boy Nate never did that. Or Hopkins Inexplicable that he's getting the minutes he is. Should be playing about as much as Mourning at this point.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 7, 2016 1:09:35 GMT -5
Tre got all the minutes he deserved tonight. He has played one great game, a number of non-productive games, like tonight. Tre is one of many problems right now. The truly sad thing is that it does not appear to make any real difference who starts, who comes off the bench, who gets how many minutes. Yep. III's tried everything.
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Feb 7, 2016 1:42:25 GMT -5
Inexplicable that he's getting the minutes he is. Should be playing about as much as Mourning at this point. Tre should be playing Less then Mourning. At least Mourning made an impact with really good defense tonight. Tre hasn't played defense all year.
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Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Feb 7, 2016 1:49:15 GMT -5
IMO, Tre wasn't that good last year, and has played worse this year. Last year, he shot the ball well in stretches, and aggressively and effectively took the ball to the basket on the break. But overall, I didn't think he played that well. I was hoping he would be better this yr... Knowing how positive you are about the program you subtley echo the concerns of many. IMO his failure to take the next step and the one that was expected coming in here has been more damaging than the production lapses of Ike and roster injuries. More concerning is looking forward to next year. At this point it looks like a repeat of this year at best. The next step....at this point he is running backwards. Defensively you can't play him and DSR together ever. When they are on the court together it feels like we are playing 3/5. They are absolutely clueless and horrendous at the top of the 2/3 zone.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Feb 7, 2016 8:34:28 GMT -5
2 straight goose eggs. Even Hoyatalk whipping boy Nate never did that. Bad luck for Tyler Crawford and Vee!! They would have played a lot this year.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 7, 2016 14:57:18 GMT -5
IMO, Tre wasn't that good last year, and has played worse this year. Last year, he shot the ball well in stretches, and aggressively and effectively took the ball to the basket on the break. But overall, I didn't think he played that well. I was hoping he would be better this yr... Knowing how positive you are about the program you subtley echo the concerns of many. IMO his failure to take the next step and the one that was expected coming in here has been more damaging than the production lapses of Ike and roster injuries. More concerning is looking forward to next year. At this point it looks like a repeat of this year at best. We've always had someone to take over the lead guard mantle going into the next season with Sapp-Wright-Starks-DSR. But you can't go into next season with Campbell as the lead guard or even an effective back up because the whole season would basically hinge on whether he dramatically improves over the summer. I think alot of the problem is his high dribble. That's only good in the open floor when nobody's around you. In half court, the high dribble makes it hard for him to dribble penetrate in tight spaces or blow by people if they get too close to him. So he tends to pass it off or not shoot as soon as anyone gets close to him for fear of getting the ball stolen. He never looks to shoot or dribble penetrate and I think his high dribble might be the reason why. Defensively. He's just he's just really bad even though he has the speed and quickness to be at least decent. He relies too much on his speed and doesn't use any technique. He lets someone blow by him by not defending them with positioning and technique and then just does a 180 spin and tries to use his speed to get back in front of them but it only works about half the time.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 8, 2016 8:00:20 GMT -5
Hoyas need way more from Tre. I want to see him be much more aggressive on both ends of the floor.
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by bostonfan on Feb 8, 2016 8:38:14 GMT -5
Tre's problems this year really are hard to figure out. He clearly has physical ability and it probably the quickest/fastest player on the team. He has an adequate handle and good shot mechanics. There is no reason he should not be a better player than he has been this year.
It really looks like he is struggling with confidence and knowing when to attack and when to just facilitate. As a point guard, decision making is your most important job and right now he just seems to make way too many bad decisions with the ball. Hope he can turn it around soon. The team could use him to be effective ( not a star, just effective) the rest of the season and will really need him next year when they will have no other experienced player at the point.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Feb 8, 2016 10:36:40 GMT -5
I think JT3 needs to decide to either sit Tre and make LJ his point guard or just keep working with Tre in hopes he becomes the guard they thought he was when they recruited him. My feeling is to keep working with him. Will be very hard to make LJ into a point guard and JT3 needs to figure out what he has in Tre before next year anyway. The guy was an all Met for gosh sakes, played in a pretty tough conference, and was one of the top guards in the country coming out of high school.
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ksf42001
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Post by ksf42001 on Feb 8, 2016 10:41:31 GMT -5
It's weird, Tre had a better freshman year than Starks, but Starks had a much better sophomore year (even if it was inconsistent). Starks/Tre both had breakout performances (Louisville for Starks, Xavier for Tre), but Starks also had 6-10 other 10 pt+ games before fading towards the end of the year, but Tre just has nothing else on his resume this year...
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Feb 8, 2016 10:57:49 GMT -5
Not giving up on Tre yet. One part of the problem I believe is that too much time has been spent trying to make DSR a pg. Although that may be good for his future development at the next level, it has not helped the team. Too much has been demanded of DSR, who is also not a strong defender and lacks Tre's quickness. DSR is playing too long and his pg duties have hurt his offense. What has worried me most about Tre is his failure to develop his shot to the extent I expected after the summer.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 8, 2016 13:14:13 GMT -5
Not giving up on Tre yet. One part of the problem I believe is that too much time has been spent trying to make DSR a pg. Although that may be good for his future development at the next level, it has not helped the team. Too much has been demanded of DSR, who is also not a strong defender and lacks Tre's quickness. DSR is playing too long and his pg duties have hurt his offense. What has worried me most about Tre is his failure to develop his shot to the extent I expected after the summer. Is my sarcasm detector broken? You do realize that the only reason DSR has spent time converting to PG is because Tre sucks at it right? If Markel was still on the team you think DSR would still need to carry PG duties (which he's actually done a pretty good job of, especially lately)?? DSR is a better defender, ball handler, shooter, and competitor than Tre, despite not having the "quickness" Tre has so I don't really get your point. Tre has too many lazy habits on offense and defense and that's why he hasn't improved.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Feb 8, 2016 13:29:25 GMT -5
I think JT3 needs to decide to either sit Tre and make LJ his point guard or just keep working with Tre in hopes he becomes the guard they thought he was when they recruited him. My feeling is to keep working with him. Will be very hard to make LJ into a point guard and JT3 needs to figure out what he has in Tre before next year anyway. The guy was an all Met for gosh sakes, played in a pretty tough conference, and was one of the top guards in the country coming out of high school. This is simply not true. Campbell was not a top 100 RSCI recruit in the class of 2014. I'm not going to take the time to go through the full list, but even if Campbell was #101, he'd have at least ~40 guards ahead of him in his own recruiting class. At no point was Campbell considered "one of the top guards in the country" as a recruit. At this point, he seems like a reach that JT3 and his staff liked better than many other high major programs. And to this point, it looks like the other coaches were right and JT3 and Co. were wrong.
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Post by trillesthoya on Feb 8, 2016 13:36:33 GMT -5
I think it's a little too early for us to be claiming that Tre is a complete flop... Yes he's struggled this year, but his performance against Xavier shows he has the capability to excel, the context just needs to be correct.
A lot of players go through a sophomore slump, and it seems like Isaac/Tre are going through that pretty hard right now. But realistically speaking this doesn't reflect on either of their potentials. From what I've seen both of their issues seem to be with confidence, not with skill. Usually that's the coach's fault (but let's not open up that can of worms right now).
I'm just as disappointed with his performance as anyone else, but already declaring that he was a waste of a scholarship to me is both completely false and premature. Give the kid some time, and after two years then lets have that discussion.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by drquigley on Feb 8, 2016 13:46:03 GMT -5
I think JT3 needs to decide to either sit Tre and make LJ his point guard or just keep working with Tre in hopes he becomes the guard they thought he was when they recruited him. My feeling is to keep working with him. Will be very hard to make LJ into a point guard and JT3 needs to figure out what he has in Tre before next year anyway. The guy was an all Met for gosh sakes, played in a pretty tough conference, and was one of the top guards in the country coming out of high school. This is simply not true. Campbell was not a top 100 RSCI recruit in the class of 2014. I'm not going to take the time to go through the full list, but even if Campbell was #101, he'd have at least ~40 guards ahead of him in his own recruiting class. At no point was Campbell considered "one of the top guards in the country" as a recruit. At this point, he seems like a reach that JT3 and his staff liked better than many other high major programs. And to this point, it looks like the other coaches were right and JT3 and Co. were wrong. This year's GU basketball program says Tre was first team WCAC all star and was the 31st ranked point guard coming out of high school. That makes him a top guard recruit in my book.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 8, 2016 14:14:50 GMT -5
This is simply not true. Campbell was not a top 100 RSCI recruit in the class of 2014. I'm not going to take the time to go through the full list, but even if Campbell was #101, he'd have at least ~40 guards ahead of him in his own recruiting class. At no point was Campbell considered "one of the top guards in the country" as a recruit. At this point, he seems like a reach that JT3 and his staff liked better than many other high major programs. And to this point, it looks like the other coaches were right and JT3 and Co. were wrong. This year's GU basketball program says Tre was first team WCAC all star and was the 31st ranked point guard coming out of high school. That makes him a top guard recruit in my book. Being 31st means you're in the top tier now?
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 8, 2016 14:28:57 GMT -5
This year's GU basketball program says Tre was first team WCAC all star and was the 31st ranked point guard coming out of high school. That makes him a top guard recruit in my book. Being 31st means you're in the top tier now? Under Quigly's rubric virtually every player in Division I is a top tier high ranked recruit.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Feb 8, 2016 14:39:40 GMT -5
This is simply not true. Campbell was not a top 100 RSCI recruit in the class of 2014. I'm not going to take the time to go through the full list, but even if Campbell was #101, he'd have at least ~40 guards ahead of him in his own recruiting class. At no point was Campbell considered "one of the top guards in the country" as a recruit. At this point, he seems like a reach that JT3 and his staff liked better than many other high major programs. And to this point, it looks like the other coaches were right and JT3 and Co. were wrong. This year's GU basketball program says Tre was first team WCAC all star and was the 31st ranked point guard coming out of high school. That makes him a top guard recruit in my book. To our Dr from Chelsea he may have had one or two recruiting listing in the top 100 his combined rcsi may have been at 132 not that i take much creedence in any of them he was border line top 40-50 guard. To say turn LJ into a lead guard vs Tre is even more questionable. Both are 2 guards under any kind of system you run. How nyone evaluated him as a lead guard who could make a major contributuion here or in most high major programs is the question I would ask the staff. From The beginning last year he was lacking in any basic skills to handle the position unless he was viewed as a 2 to 3 year project. Last year he could shoot a little from outside may have shot close to 40% from 3 but may have been at under 30% inside arc. His passing, handle change of direction are seriously subpar and as ive said before his offense is the best part of his game. How you can play in the WCAC for 4 years and you play defense the way he does tells me the DMV is not what it use to be at the high scholl level If thats how defense is taught why did we need a rules change to promote more offense. Last point and I really don't mean to go off on Tre but This was all evident last december in limited minutes, the only skill he showed was hitting an open 3 from about 2 spots on the floor. Still for the life of me I do not understand why we didn't find another true lead guard for this year.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by drquigley on Feb 8, 2016 16:22:09 GMT -5
This year's GU basketball program says Tre was first team WCAC all star and was the 31st ranked point guard coming out of high school. That makes him a top guard recruit in my book. To our Dr from Chelsea he may have had one or two recruiting listing in the top 100 his combined rcsi may have been at 132 not that i take much creedence in any of them he was border line top 40-50 guard. To say turn LJ into a lead guard vs Tre is even more questionable. Both are 2 guards under any kind of system you run. How nyone evaluated him as a lead guard who could make a major contributuion here or in most high major programs is the question I would ask the staff. From The beginning last year he was lacking in any basic skills to handle the position unless he was viewed as a 2 to 3 year project. Last year he could shoot a little from outside may have shot close to 40% from 3 but may have been at under 30% inside arc. His passing, handle change of direction are seriously subpar and as ive said before his offense is the best part of his game. How you can play in the WCAC for 4 years and you play defense the way he does tells me the DMV is not what it use to be at the high scholl level If thats how defense is taught why did we need a rules change to promote more offense. Last point and I really don't mean to go off on Tre but This was all evident last december in limited minutes, the only skill he showed was hitting an open 3 from about 2 spots on the floor. Still for the life of me I do not understand why we didn't find another true lead guard for this year. Of all the criticisms of JT3 and his coaches, if Tre turns out to be a real bust then this would be the one criticism that should stick, namely that they either can't evaluate talent or are unable to get the most out of it. Obviously they thought they were getting a top tier point guard in Tre. He isn't from Indiana, they had to have seen him play a bunch of times in high school and had lots of input from locals who also saw him. After watching him play - and practice - for a whole year they still must feel the same way since they didn't go for one this year (is Kaleb a legit pg?). So either he is a sleeper waiting to come alive as an upperclassman or JT3 and his staff need to reconsider how they judge talent and also talk to their friends in the WCAC and ask them what gives. BTW Marcus is also a WCAC all star and hasn't impressed very much.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 8, 2016 16:22:09 GMT -5
Being 31st means you're in the top tier now? Under Quigly's rubric virtually every player in Division I is a top tier high ranked recruit. Also means Hop was elite, which just goes to show even more how the staff failed to develop him into an NBA All-Star
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