Cambridge
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Canes Pugnaces
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Post by Cambridge on Aug 13, 2014 9:18:34 GMT -5
Hoyafan is right....he does look to be in good shape....not back on campus yet. Incidentally, I know there has been a lot of speculation about whether Josh is coming back. I am happy to report that he will be. Best news in this thread...possibly best news in a long time. Talk about burying the lede.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 13, 2014 9:25:49 GMT -5
Truth be told...there was reason to speculate. I'm wasn't saying there wasn't but speculating won't change he outcome and I was simply responding to the previous posters comment questioning how people could not be talking about it more. When you worry about what you can control life is much more pleasant. LOL Fred Astaire, Sammy Davis Jr, Gregory Hines etc would be in awe of your tap dancing skills Rock..
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Aug 13, 2014 9:28:22 GMT -5
Maybe some people just tts and have faith in Josh and don't have much to say because there is nothing to say unless you're speculating about him doing something other than what he said he was doing. Truth be told...there was reason to speculate. I'll speculate all the way to February 2015, while wishing him nothing but the best...
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Aug 13, 2014 9:30:54 GMT -5
Incidentally, I know there has been a lot of speculation about whether Josh is coming back. I am happy to report that he will be. Best news in this thread...possibly best news in a long time. Talk about burying the lede. Yep. I predict a starting day lineup of: Trawick DSR Bowen/Copeland Hopkins Smith And a potential conference lineup of: Trawick DSR Copeland Hopkins/White Smith With Peak as the first off the bench followed by Hayes, Campbell, and Cameron. We will have much better balance on both sides of the ball and I suspect that Josh will get back to his days of being a plus offensive rebounder and be a much better defender. He has quick hands and it will really show if he has slimmed down enough. To go a step further I'll predict our leading scorers and their other numbers just for fun: DSR, 17 ppg, 4 rbs and 3-4 assists Josh, 16 ppg, 7 rbs and 3 assists Jabril, 13 ppg, 5 rbs and 3 assists Mikael 9-10 ppg, 6 rbs and 2-3 assists Peak 8-10 ppg, 3 rbs, 3 assists Bowen 8-9 ppg, 4 rbs and 2 assists
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Post by matersammich on Aug 13, 2014 9:31:46 GMT -5
Incidentally, I know there has been a lot of speculation about whether Josh is coming back. I am happy to report that he will be. Best news in this thread...possibly best news in a long time. Talk about burying the lede. Last season (almost) couldn't have gone worse with injuries and academic suspensions. With a few freshmen showing glimpses of being ready to play day 1 and Smith reportedly coming back in shape and motivated this season could be the opposite. Too bad Markel couldn't come back for one more year, he deserved a team this nasty around him.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Aug 13, 2014 9:39:10 GMT -5
I'm wasn't saying there wasn't but speculating won't change he outcome and I was simply responding to the previous posters comment questioning how people could not be talking about it more. When you worry about what you can control life is much more pleasant. LOL Fred Astaire, Sammy Davis Jr, Gregory Hines etc would be in awe of your tap dancing skills Rock.. ...okay? I think I get what you're trying to say but it doesn't really apply to the conversation if you were following it correctly. It's the difference between people who creat extra problems in their head by overthinking and those who don't.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Aug 13, 2014 10:05:03 GMT -5
You and I watched a different Hopkins. There is nothing decent about Hopkins' jumper. It's been bad to awful his entire career. No teams respected Hopkins' jumper. Plus, he's a poor finisher. As for his handle, so many of Hopkins' turnovers happened when he attempted to put the ball on the floor. To say his handle is decent is an exaggeration of immense proportion. Henry's handle was decent. He could, and frequently did, take his man from the top. His jumper is decent. Not great, maybe not good. But it is decent. He has hit enough of them over the years to convince me that it isn't a fluke when his jumper actually goes in. And while I'm not of the opinion that Hopkins will have a Sims-like senior season, I can't let it slide your comment that Sims' handle was better and your suggestion that Sims took his opponent off the bounce more frequently. If Sims started doing that on a more recurring basis it wasn't until his senior season. I don't know what Hopkins' senior season will bring on that front but as far as a comparison for their first three years go I thought Hopkins was more successful in driving to the hole. Not that he does it frequently or all that successfully mind you, but he seemed to score off that move far more than Sims was able to during his first three seasons. Perhaps it was more of the result of Hopkins getting more minutes prior to his senior year, but my point remains that we are now getting to the point of making up stuff if we actually start claiming that driving to the basket was an element of Sims' game that was superior to Hopkins during the same stages of their careers. Josh looks good and in shape. Please let this be true. Because if it is....we can beat anyone. Anyone. I still maintain that Hopkins' performance ranks him as the worst big man on offense that JTIII has had, given his usage rate and the amount of minutes he has played. Nate Lubick wasn't great either, but also did not try to do things he could not do, and as a result, he was actually a fairly efficient offensive player. People try to let Nate Lubick off the hook when they resort to the "he didn't try to do things he couldn't do" excuse. What about not trying to do things he COULD do either? He could post up and attempt a hook shot whenever he wanted. But he decided not to do this, sometime going weeks without even attempting a postup move. And if people's explanation for this is that he wasn't good enough to take such a shot on a regular basis my counter would be whose fault is that? He was a far more highly thought of prospect coming out of high school than Hopkins. He had a strong body and build from day one, strong enough to bang with most college fives but fortunately for him he always started at the four position thus never having to play out of position on a regular basis. Thus he had the strength to post against virtually all PFs he faced off against, often times he had the clear advantage in terms of strength. But he rarely looked to score. Where was his work ethic during the summers and offseason to hone this part of his game? Where was his courage and leadership to go ahead and do what needed to be done in the paint during his final two seasons when his team needed points? I'm sorry but I have less patience and use for a guy who doesn't give the effort and runs away from any offensive responsibility, than a guy like Hopkins who may screw up on that side of the ball but at least tries to be more than a decoy, particularly when his team is in need. My esteem for your basketball knowledge just dropped a few notches lower. I didn't think that was possible. Shades of Reuben Boumtje-Boumtje...
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 13, 2014 10:26:28 GMT -5
CO didn't run the numbers last year, so I have no idea what Hopkins hit on his jumper, but in his sophomore year he shot 31.5% on 2pt jumpers. Not all of those are the open 2pt jumpers people often think of (it includes some of his way-too-far from the basket post up fade-aways, I'm sure), but it's hardly inspiring. Yeah, his form looks okay, but it's got to go in someday. I would love Hopkins to make a leap. He certainly has the athleticism. But the blind support for a player who has hurt the team offense by the same people who turn on players who haven't been nearly problematic is mind-boggling. It's not blind anything, sure he could've performed better but you don't just stop supporting someone because their performance doesn't meet your expectations especially when they are trying. According to detractors he "hurt" the hoyas offense, maybe from a numbers standpoint sure but that wasn't his only impact and you're being selective if you try and make it seem so. I support all Hoya players and have never said anything bad about our players because a) all of our Hoyas are talented and b) just because a player is less talented than another doesn't mean they deserve any less respect or support. Quit trying to paint a narrative that doesn't exist. I'm just trying to figure out what that response even meant to say, but what I get is that you support the players no matter what. That's great. That's not why I'm on the message board and I question why you even post on a thread about who should start, since it involves discussions of which player should get more playing time -- i.e. which player is better.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 13, 2014 10:29:54 GMT -5
Best news in this thread...possibly best news in a long time. Talk about burying the lede. Yep. I predict a starting day lineup of: Trawick DSR Bowen/Copeland Hopkins Smith And a potential conference lineup of: Trawick DSR Copeland Hopkins/White Smith With Peak as the first off the bench followed by Hayes, Campbell, and Cameron. We will have much better balance on both sides of the ball and I suspect that Josh will get back to his days of being a plus offensive rebounder and be a much better defender. He has quick hands and it will really show if he has slimmed down enough. To go a step further I'll predict our leading scorers and their other numbers just for fun: DSR, 17 ppg, 4 rbs and 3-4 assists Josh, 16 ppg, 7 rbs and 3 assists Jabril, 13 ppg, 5 rbs and 3 assists Mikael 9-10 ppg, 6 rbs and 2-3 assists Peak 8-10 ppg, 3 rbs, 3 assists Bowen 8-9 ppg, 4 rbs and 2 assists That'a 71-75 points before Copeland, White, Campbell, Cameron or Hayes. Since you have Copeland and possibly White starting, that seems crazy high. The chances of Bowen scoring 8-9 ppg off the bench don't seem too likely.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 13, 2014 10:37:06 GMT -5
But the logic in this post is so contradictory I really don't get it. You point to Mikael being able to draw double teams as a negative thing, [/quote] Drawing a double team is mostly only a positive if you pass out of it. Hopkins almost never does. Instead he chucks up a shot he can't make or turns it over. What's the benefit of a double team if you turn into it? I don't have access to the type of info that would be necessary to make a better estimate of Nate's effect on his teammates. That'd require by lineup info, and that's not readily available. I can make educated estimates though, and our other players were pretty good on offense, even with Nate. They would have been better but it's hard to see a ton of efficiency upside to DSR's season last year -- esp. considering that if Nate took more shots, DSR'd have lost shots. He doesn't, though. Those extra possessions were almost uniformly turnovers and easy misses. What value he creates on offense by looking like he has game he throws away when defense realize it's smart to funnel the ball away from DSR and to him. He was a good defender for while, but he started to give that back, too, when he started fouling the world.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Aug 13, 2014 11:03:18 GMT -5
It's not blind anything, sure he could've performed better but you don't just stop supporting someone because their performance doesn't meet your expectations especially when they are trying. According to detractors he "hurt" the hoyas offense, maybe from a numbers standpoint sure but that wasn't his only impact and you're being selective if you try and make it seem so. I support all Hoya players and have never said anything bad about our players because a) all of our Hoyas are talented and b) just because a player is less talented than another doesn't mean they deserve any less respect or support. Quit trying to paint a narrative that doesn't exist. I'm just trying to figure out what that response even meant to say, but what I get is that you support the players no matter what. That's great. That's not why I'm on the message board and I question why you even post on a thread about who should start, since it involves discussions of which player should get more playing time -- i.e. which player is better. You know you can compare players without belittling one or the other right? I never said that I don't recognize deficiencies, rather I was saying that I know how to differentiate between varying levels of concerns for those deficiencies. Just because one player is limited in one area relative to another player doesn't mean that it's necessarily representative of their overall ability.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Aug 13, 2014 11:07:22 GMT -5
Yep. I predict a starting day lineup of: Trawick DSR Bowen/Copeland Hopkins Smith And a potential conference lineup of: Trawick DSR Copeland Hopkins/White Smith With Peak as the first off the bench followed by Hayes, Campbell, and Cameron. We will have much better balance on both sides of the ball and I suspect that Josh will get back to his days of being a plus offensive rebounder and be a much better defender. He has quick hands and it will really show if he has slimmed down enough. To go a step further I'll predict our leading scorers and their other numbers just for fun: DSR, 17 ppg, 4 rbs and 3-4 assists Josh, 16 ppg, 7 rbs and 3 assists Jabril, 13 ppg, 5 rbs and 3 assists Mikael 9-10 ppg, 6 rbs and 2-3 assists Peak 8-10 ppg, 3 rbs, 3 assists Bowen 8-9 ppg, 4 rbs and 2 assists That'a 71-75 points before Copeland, White, Campbell, Cameron or Hayes. Since you have Copeland and possibly White starting, that seems crazy high. The chances of Bowen scoring 8-9 ppg off the bench don't seem too likely. I agree but that fails I take into account roles which will be determined in the near future. I meant more in terms of what each player should be expected to produce if given the opportunity. It'll be interesting to see how the roles will play out but I expect big things on offense from this team. Both Josh and DSR are poy caliber players on offense.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Aug 13, 2014 11:11:44 GMT -5
But the logic in this post is so contradictory I really don't get it. You point to Mikael being able to draw double teams as a negative thing, Drawing a double team is mostly only a positive if you pass out of it. Hopkins almost never does. Instead he chucks up a shot he can't make or turns it over. What's the benefit of a double team if you turn into it? I don't have access to the type of info that would be necessary to make a better estimate of Nate's effect on his teammates. That'd require by lineup info, and that's not readily available. I can make educated estimates though, and our other players were pretty good on offense, even with Nate. They would have been better but it's hard to see a ton of efficiency upside to DSR's season last year -- esp. considering that if Nate took more shots, DSR'd have lost shots. He doesn't, though. Those extra possessions were almost uniformly turnovers and easy misses. What value he creates on offense by looking like he has game he throws away when defense realize it's smart to funnel the ball away from DSR and to him. He was a good defender for while, but he started to give that back, too, when he started fouling the world. [/quote] I agree re: double teams but they still serve a purpose because they mean on plays where he is no completely doubled he is still drawing attention. It's silly to suggest that he is incapable of passing out of a double team, sure he tries to split it sometimes but that's no every time and there's still value to occupying the defense's attention I.E when he gets shots up there is one less person on the defensive glass to worry about, etc And it's an arbitrary observation just to say that more shots for Nate =less shots for DSR. By the same virtue. I can say more shots for Nate = less shots for Mikael and Markel, which = more efficiency from both.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Aug 13, 2014 11:24:25 GMT -5
My esteem for your basketball knowledge just dropped a few notches lower. I didn't think that was possible. It will be harder for me to get much sleep knowing this. Still all that sleep deprivation won't make me delusional enough to believe in your fantasy that Sims demonstrated such superior ability than Hopkins to beat his man off the dribble his first few years.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 13, 2014 11:28:45 GMT -5
I think part of the reason Hopkins struggles with double-teams is because it is usually the result of his waiting too long to make a decision. Unlike Josh Smith, Hopkins does not typically get double-teamed, but only sometimes when he gets the ball in the post and it looks like he's going to shoot.
Consistently, I think one of Hopkins problems is rather than catching the ball and shooting, he often gets the ball, looks around, and then tries a hook shot, etc. By the time he's actually made a move, defenders have moved over to help, and he often gets stuffed.
The fact that Hopkins has such trouble finishing means he should never be taking shots if he is double teamed. I agree that if he gets doubled in the post that's a good thing, but not if he shoots in that circumstance, rather than getting it out to someone else better situated to score.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 12:46:34 GMT -5
There's absolutely no chance our top three guys -- whoever they are -- average 45 points combined this year.
It's only happened once under JTIII. That was with an NBA-ready Greg Monroe, and 2 other McDs AAs having their best seasons on the Hilltop. (Also -- Austin's 2010 season may be the best shooting conf. season in team history) They barely made it, with NO bench.
If our top 3 score 45/g, with our presumed depth, we'd easily be a top 5 team.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Aug 13, 2014 12:51:52 GMT -5
My esteem for your basketball knowledge just dropped a few notches lower. I didn't think that was possible. It will be harder for me to get much sleep knowing this. Still all that sleep deprivation won't make me delusional enough to believe in your fantasy that Sims demonstrated such superior ability than Hopkins to beat his man off the dribble his first few years. Says the man who thought Reuben Boumtje-Boumtje could be a star and wrote a dissertation about it...
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Aug 13, 2014 13:01:03 GMT -5
There's absolutely no chance our top three guys -- whoever they are -- average 45 points combined this year. It's only happened once under JTIII. That was with an NBA-ready Greg Monroe, and 2 other McDs AAs having their best seasons on the Hilltop. (Also -- Austin's 2010 season may be the best shooting conf. season in team history) They barely made it, with NO bench. If our top 3 score 45/g, with our presumed depth, we'd easily be a top 5 team. My wild stab at scoring averages for the season.....humor me: DSR - 15 ppg Jabril - 13 ppg Josh - 12 ppg LJP - 11 ppg Copeland - 9 ppg Hopkins - 8 ppg Bowen - 7 ppg Cameron - 6 ppg White - 5 ppg Campbell - 4 ppg Hayes - 3 ppg Tre - DNP
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Aug 13, 2014 13:01:24 GMT -5
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Aug 13, 2014 13:09:29 GMT -5
There's absolutely no chance our top three guys -- whoever they are -- average 45 points combined this year. It's only happened once under JTIII. That was with an NBA-ready Greg Monroe, and 2 other McDs AAs having their best seasons on the Hilltop. (Also -- Austin's 2010 season may be the best shooting conf. season in team history) They barely made it, with NO bench. If our top 3 score 45/g, with our presumed depth, we'd easily be a top 5 team. My wild stab at scoring averages for the season.....humor me: DSR - 15 ppg Jabril - 13 ppg Josh - 12 ppg LJP - 11 ppg Copeland - 9 ppg Hopkins - 8 ppg Bowen - 7 ppg Cameron - 6 ppg White - 5 ppg Campbell - 4 ppg Hayes - 3 ppg Tre - DNP If we average 93 points per game, I know we are winning the NC!
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