SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 3, 2014 17:48:28 GMT -5
OK, so what's the eventual starting lineup this year?
I'm assuming Smith is here and playing, because otherwise this becomes a much easier exercise. To me, it's clear from last year and Kenner reports that DSR, Trawick and Smith will start.
That leaves two starting spots to be contested, most likely, between Hopkins, Copeland, White and Peak. What do people think?
Personally I'd go Copeland at PF and Peak at SF right now -- though I could completely see White taking a spot.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Aug 3, 2014 18:17:16 GMT -5
OK, so what's the eventual starting lineup this year? I'm assuming Smith is here and playing, because otherwise this becomes a much easier exercise. To me, it's clear from last year and Kenner reports that DSR, Trawick and Smith will start. That leaves two starting spots to be contested, most likely, between Hopkins, Copeland, White and Peak. What do people think? Personally I'd go Copeland at PF and Peak at SF right now -- though I could completely see White taking a spot. I was going to wait for the KL to end before discussing it but since you brought it up.... Jabril starts obviously. I see him having more responsibility handling the ball than DSR although both will take care of that duty. I think Jabril can handle the role as a college PG if his handle and confidence has improved somewhat. He may not be able to break guys off the bounce and penetrate into the defense on a whim like the really good point guards, but he has enough height to make the pass over a press or into a teammate's hand for an easy bucket. Think of him like the Harrison guy who started as PG for Kentucky last season. If he was all that at his size he would have gone to the draft as a likely lotto pick. But his point guard skills weren't all that advanced. What he had for him was height and athleticism. I see Jabril as a poor man's version of that. Plus I'm encouraged by how Jabril performed when he got back from his injury last season. He was a more consistent scorer and a much better shooter. He was averaging around 12 points a game. If he does at least that for an entire season and is a threat to hit an open shot, the Hoyas should be in good shape. Perhaps most important is that Jabril will hopefully set an aggressive tone that the team has lacked the past few years. Some may knock Jabril for his supposed "fake tough" attitude/antics, but I think even faking toughness can be better than exhibiting zero toughness. DSR. Possible BE Player of the Year and All-American. Nuff said. Will he average 20 is the only major question in my mind. Joshua Smith. I’m going to avoid the negative vibes some of the people of Casual Hoya spread regarding Joshua. Until proven otherwise I will accept at face value III’s comments that Josh will be back and ready to go. And if he is, even if it is for only 20 to 25 minutes a game, the Hoyas should win the BE. Period. LJ Peak. Can’t ignore what he can bring to the table. I don’t agree with the theory he should come off the bench to give the team a spark or to be able to play more freely. I think he can help out the starting unit, putting another offensive weapon on the floor, albeit one who scores in a different manner than his teammates. The scoring he has done in the KL has been extremely encouraging but what catches my eyes are the reports of him at times having to play point guard and looking very good in the role. If the team doesn’t have one great, sure-fire experienced ballhandler to put in the starting lineup then a team can make that up by having at least three very capable ballhandlers in the starting five. I had envisioned Paul White in this role and maybe an argument can be made for him in this role. But as of now I’ll go with Peak. Mikael Hopkins/Isaac Copeland. Tossup. The smart money is that even if Copeland doesn’t start immediately he will nonetheless be starting eventually. Or at the very least if he comes off the bench all season long he won’t have to wait long considering how quickly Hopkins picks up fouls. But what if Hopkins has some breakout season and is so good that Copeland ends up as just a luxury? One can dream I suppose. Frankly I think it is more likely that Jabril has Henry Sims-like senior season than Hopkins, but who knows? As much as we knock Hopkins you can argue he was a much better contributor his first three seasons than Henry was. Hopkins still has tons of physical tools and abilities. Can he put it altogether? If not, no sweat. He has a future star waiting in the wings. And then there's Aaron, Paul, an apparently improving Hayes, Reggie, Tre, etc coming off the bench. If everyone is ready to roll this team could be a major surprise to the nation this season.
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Aug 3, 2014 18:33:07 GMT -5
My thoughts on the likely rotation after watching far too many Kenner League games:
Starters:
DSR (lock) Trawick (lock) Copeland White Smith (lock if he is around)
Rotation guys:
Peak (could easily start and will likely play as much/more as Copeland/White) Hopkins (wouldn't be surprised if he starts early on although I hope he doesn't) Bowen (may drop minutes as the year goes on)
Spot minutes:
Campbell (Peak's ball-handling may limit the need for Tre, who likely isn't ready to be a big contributor yet) Hayes (can hopefully approximate Moses's role in 2012-2013)
I'd love to have a knock-down shooter in the rotation but Cameron looks like he is behind the freshman and Bowen. Trey is going to need a few years before he will be an option for even spot minutes.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Aug 3, 2014 19:47:44 GMT -5
I havent seen any Kenner, but Peak seems like a good guy to come off the bench for a two reasons--it keeps us from playing three guards and he provides the ability to create offense, which some of us our subs lack (Hopkins, Hayes, Bowen). He seems like he'll be getting a lot of minutes regardless of whether he comes off the bench or starts. There are probably 20-25 non DSR/Jabril minutes at guard, right? so, something like Peak gets 15 at guard (Tre gets 5-10 min) and 5 at SF? Bowen gets 15 at SF, Copeland gets 15 at SF and 5 at PF, White gets 20 at PF, Hopkins gets 15 at PF and spot minutes at C, with Hayes as Smiths primary back up? Does that seem reasonable?
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Aug 3, 2014 22:22:25 GMT -5
Agree with MCIs assessment on this year's lineup and rotation but only if JT III is willing to expand his rotation to 9-10. Although there is no reason to feel that he will, the potential of the incoming class and the development of last year's returnees may compel it.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 3, 2014 22:39:17 GMT -5
Agree with MCIs assessment on this year's lineup and rotation but only if JT III is willing to expand his rotation to 9-10. Although there is no reason to feel that he will, the potential of the incoming class and the development of last year's returnees may compel it. The rotation will, as it has in the past, depend on who is ready to play. Hayes, for all of the clamoring last year, wasn't ready. Guys that earn time will get it. Our depth has been limited less by JT3's stubbornness than it has by usable depth. Hop and Bowen (assuming JS is back and in decent shape) seemingly stand to lose minutes if the freshmen come along as hoped. That said, at minimum, there's 8 guys that will likely see solid minutes at an absolute minimum. Hop, Josh, Bowen, Trawick, DSR, Isaac, Peak, White. I'd be very surprised if it isn't nine most games especially considering our recent penchant for fouling early and often. I can't wait to see the younger guys get some run. It's gonna be a fun year!
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Aug 4, 2014 7:52:31 GMT -5
I won't re-hash the Hayes situation last year, but I will say that I think he'll be better than he was in Kenner, and he's shown improvement in Kenner. The players GU has now will open up things for the post. I think Copeland/White and Smith/Hayes in the post will make things much improved. I suspect a slimmer Smith. This'll be a much different year all around for the team.
JTIII will go 9-10 deep. Much more talent than last year. And if they press more as has been reported, he'll have to use more. There were fatigue issues with less pressing last year for too many ends of games.
"We just had so much adversity last year," Thompson said. "If you look at us last year at this time, you would think that both Greg Whittington and Josh Smith would be a big part of what we were going to be. Then in the Big East, neither of those guys played." "Then Jabril Trawick broke his jaw. It was one thing after the other. Next year we'll have Jabril back with D'Vauntes [Smith-Rivera] along with Aaron Bowen, Josh [Smith], and also Mikael Hopkins. We've also got several freshman that are going to play right away. Those four first-year guys --- Isaac Copeland, Paul White, L.J. Peak, and Tre Campbell --- are going to be thrown into the fire quickly."
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 4, 2014 9:52:36 GMT -5
I won't re-hash the Hayes situation last year, but I will say that I think he'll be better than he was in Kenner, and he's shown improvement in Kenner. The players GU has now will open up things for the post. I think Copeland/White and Smith/Hayes in the post will make things much improved. I suspect a slimmer Smith. This'll be a much different year all around for the team. JTIII will go 9-10 deep. Much more talent than last year. And if they press more as has been reported, he'll have to use more. There were fatigue issues with less pressing last year for too many ends of games. "We just had so much adversity last year," Thompson said. "If you look at us last year at this time, you would think that both Greg Whittington and Josh Smith would be a big part of what we were going to be. Then in the Big East, neither of those guys played." "Then Jabril Trawick broke his jaw. It was one thing after the other. Next year we'll have Jabril back with D'Vauntes [Smith-Rivera] along with Aaron Bowen, Josh [Smith], and also Mikael Hopkins. We've also got several freshman that are going to play right away. Those four first-year guys --- Isaac Copeland, Paul White, L.J. Peak, and Tre Campbell --- are going to be thrown into the fire quickly." I like your optimism with regard to Smith and Hayes though I don't share it. Then again, I'm too cynical for my own good. As far as pressing, I haven't read anything about that anywhere but here.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Aug 4, 2014 10:44:37 GMT -5
I won't re-hash the Hayes situation last year, but I will say that I think he'll be better than he was in Kenner, and he's shown improvement in Kenner. The players GU has now will open up things for the post. I think Copeland/White and Smith/Hayes in the post will make things much improved. I suspect a slimmer Smith. This'll be a much different year all around for the team. JTIII will go 9-10 deep. Much more talent than last year. And if they press more as has been reported, he'll have to use more. There were fatigue issues with less pressing last year for too many ends of games. "We just had so much adversity last year," Thompson said. "If you look at us last year at this time, you would think that both Greg Whittington and Josh Smith would be a big part of what we were going to be. Then in the Big East, neither of those guys played." "Then Jabril Trawick broke his jaw. It was one thing after the other. Next year we'll have Jabril back with D'Vauntes [Smith-Rivera] along with Aaron Bowen, Josh [Smith], and also Mikael Hopkins. We've also got several freshman that are going to play right away. Those four first-year guys --- Isaac Copeland, Paul White, L.J. Peak, and Tre Campbell --- are going to be thrown into the fire quickly." I like your optimism with regard to Smith and Hayes though I don't share it. Then again, I'm too cynical for my own good. As far as pressing, I haven't read anything about that anywhere but here. JT3 has been quoted saying were going to press more often this year FYI
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Post by HometownHoya on Aug 4, 2014 11:47:58 GMT -5
I won't get into the roster discussion yet but its good to see Jabril playing well and scoring with such efficiency. Even if we do press and run more, I think we can all agree that efficient guards do the best for JTIII.
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Aug 4, 2014 12:44:24 GMT -5
I won't re-hash the Hayes situation last year, but I will say that I think he'll be better than he was in Kenner, and he's shown improvement in Kenner. The players GU has now will open up things for the post. I think Copeland/White and Smith/Hayes in the post will make things much improved. I suspect a slimmer Smith. This'll be a much different year all around for the team. JTIII will go 9-10 deep. Much more talent than last year. And if they press more as has been reported, he'll have to use more. There were fatigue issues with less pressing last year for too many ends of games. "We just had so much adversity last year," Thompson said. "If you look at us last year at this time, you would think that both Greg Whittington and Josh Smith would be a big part of what we were going to be. Then in the Big East, neither of those guys played." "Then Jabril Trawick broke his jaw. It was one thing after the other. Next year we'll have Jabril back with D'Vauntes [Smith-Rivera] along with Aaron Bowen, Josh [Smith], and also Mikael Hopkins. We've also got several freshman that are going to play right away. Those four first-year guys --- Isaac Copeland, Paul White, L.J. Peak, and Tre Campbell --- are going to be thrown into the fire quickly." I like your optimism with regard to Smith and Hayes though I don't share it. Then again, I'm too cynical for my own good. As far as pressing, I haven't read anything about that anywhere but here. True i haven't heard it either, except i believe from B&G, but considering they did it last year (pressed) with effectiveness early in the season, i think with more soldiers, they probably will.
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 4, 2014 12:54:15 GMT -5
In 2012-2013, when Porter was a freshman, we used more press than the last two season. I think when John Thompson III has the tools, he will use it. Still, I think anybody expecting start-to-finish full court pressure or anything resembling VCU's defense will be disappointed. We are much more athletic than in past years, but I still think the pressure will have to be selective, and based on the opponent, as well.
Another key is recovery when the press is broken. Part of the reason we could not use it last year is because whenever the press was broken, it often yielded an easy basket. That was partially because of our lack of athleticism, but it remains to be seen how are guys will handle that. They are certainly better equipped athletically, though.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Aug 4, 2014 13:42:21 GMT -5
In 2012-2013 2011-2012, when Porter was a freshman, we used more press than the last two season. I think when John Thompson III has the tools, he will use it. Still, I think anybody expecting start-to-finish full court pressure or anything resembling VCU's defense will be disappointed. We are much more athletic than in past years, but I still think the pressure will have to be selective, and based on the opponent, as well. Another key is recovery when the press is broken. Part of the reason we could not use it last year is because whenever the press was broken, it often yielded an easy basket. That was partially because of our lack of athleticism, but it remains to be seen how are guys will handle that. They are certainly better equipped athletically, though. Fixed it.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Aug 4, 2014 23:17:14 GMT -5
OK, so what's the eventual starting lineup this year? For the yet TBA first game: Josh S. (does not play more than 25 mins.) Hopkins (does not play more than 20 mins.) Copeland DSR Trawick IMO, the rotation (players getting more than 5 minutes pg) will be 10 deep with Tre and Trey not in there yet.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Aug 5, 2014 7:12:54 GMT -5
Starting lineup:
DSR Jabril Copeland Hopkins Smith
I think Hop starts no matter what. If Josh is fit, Hop becomes a rebounder, defending 4s, and the true fifth scoring option. He can improve enough to be good in that role or at least better than the freshmen out of the gate. If Smith isn't fit, he's our starting center. So Hop it is.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Aug 5, 2014 9:08:42 GMT -5
Starting lineup: DSR Jabril Copeland Hopkins Smith I think Hop starts no matter what. If Josh is fit, Hop becomes a rebounder, defending 4s, and the true fifth scoring option. He can improve enough to be good in that role or at least better than the freshmen out of the gate. If Smith isn't fit, he's our starting center. So Hop it is. Does Hopkins know how to be the 5th scoring option? His usage rate has always been really high--even when he was sitting on the bench a lot in the back half of 2012, he still had a 20% usage rate. When he was on the floor, he used a higher percentage of possessions than any non DSR/Markel player last year, despite having an O-Rating ahead of only Caprio, Domingo and Allen. (For comparison's sake, other 4th/5th options like Hollis in 2011 or PE2 in 06-07 used about 15-16%). I will say he did a much better job on the boards last year after rebounding like a guard that couldn't rebound in 12-13.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Aug 5, 2014 9:30:08 GMT -5
Starting lineup: DSR Jabril Copeland Hopkins Smith I think Hop starts no matter what. If Josh is fit, Hop becomes a rebounder, defending 4s, and the true fifth scoring option. He can improve enough to be good in that role or at least better than the freshmen out of the gate. If Smith isn't fit, he's our starting center. So Hop it is. Does Hopkins know how to be the 5th scoring option? His usage rate has always been really high--even when he was sitting on the bench a lot in the back half of 2012, he still had a 20% usage rate. When he was on the floor, he used a higher percentage of possessions than any non DSR/Markel player last year, despite having an O-Rating ahead of only Caprio, Domingo and Allen. (For comparison's sake, other 4th/5th options like Hollis in 2011 or PE2 in 06-07 used about 15-16%). I will say he did a much better job on the boards last year after rebounding like a guard that couldn't rebound in 12-13. Maybe he's just playing how coach has him playing in practice....ever think of that? III is well aware of his usage rate and still trusts him with responsibility....tts maybe?
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Aug 5, 2014 9:41:18 GMT -5
For those who think Copeland should start over Peak I’m curious if you think Copeland’s outside shooting at this time is perhaps better than Peak’s ability to get to the basket? Do you feel Copeland would play better defense? Are you just more inclined to have a taller player at the three position? Did you always mentally jot in Copeland in the starting lineup at the end of last season based upon his high school rankings?
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Aug 5, 2014 10:19:04 GMT -5
Does Hopkins know how to be the 5th scoring option? His usage rate has always been really high--even when he was sitting on the bench a lot in the back half of 2012, he still had a 20% usage rate. When he was on the floor, he used a higher percentage of possessions than any non DSR/Markel player last year, despite having an O-Rating ahead of only Caprio, Domingo and Allen. (For comparison's sake, other 4th/5th options like Hollis in 2011 or PE2 in 06-07 used about 15-16%). I will say he did a much better job on the boards last year after rebounding like a guard that couldn't rebound in 12-13. Maybe he's just playing how coach has him playing in practice....ever think of that? III is well aware of his usage rate and still trusts him with responsibility....tts maybe? Nah. I have more respect for JT3 than to think he wants Mikael to be one of the focuses in the offense, especially considering they tried that in the first half of 2012-2013. That and his usage rate is really high b/c he turns the ball over a lot (I think he led the team in turnover rate the past two years).
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 5, 2014 10:20:48 GMT -5
For those who think Copeland should start over Peak I’m curious if you think Copeland’s outside shooting at this time is perhaps better than Peak’s ability to get to the basket? Do you feel Copeland would play better defense? Are you just more inclined to have a taller player at the three position? Did you always mentally jot in Copeland in the starting lineup at the end of last season based upon his high school rankings? I prefer the height & length of Copeland.. I think the program is desperate for competent play from its bigs..
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