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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 21, 2014 8:43:03 GMT -5
To add to what MCI said, DSR's offensive efficiency is near the top for the John Thompson III era. Obviously, offensive efficiency does not tell the whole story, but it clearly shows DSR is one of the best players (and probably the best guard) John Thompson III has ever had.
2006: Hibbert - 120.9 2007: Green - 114.4, Hibbert - 130.8, Wallace - 119.7 2008: Hibbert - 118.8, Wallace - 121.8 2009: Freeman - 115.2 2010: Freeman - 119.8 2011: Freeman - 116.7 2012: Porter - 117.5 2013: Porter - 118.8 2014: DSR - 120.9
Clearly, Hibbert's 2007 season was off the charts, but DSR's 2014 is better than nearly all these other players. For what its worth, Wallace used a lot fewer possessions than DSR, which makes DSR's numbers even more impressive.
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Mar 21, 2014 8:43:25 GMT -5
Williams has a monster handle, is 6’3/6'4 and much more athletic than DSR. Williams will catch you slippin and dunk on you. I mean he’s even caught Roy Slippin. He’s a much much better athlete than you guys are giving him credit for. D at this point isn’t even on the NBA’s radar. True. To be fair though, the past couple of years Deron Williams looks like a much different than he did early on in his career. In any case, I don't see much similarity between DW and DSR other than their physical size. I realize this, I'm under no delusions that there is a small gap in athleticism between a guy who was in the recent past considered an elite NBA point guard and a guy who you wouldn't even call athletic at the college level. Right now, DSR projects as an unathletic midget NBA 2, which makes comparisons to NBA players difficult because unathletic midget 2s don't exist in the NBA. He would have to move to point in the NBA, which would mean proving that he can run an offense; this is a chance I think he will get next year and surprise a lot of people. He's also going to have to get leaner and quicker, but he's never going to be Russell Westbrook. So I'm thinking scoring point guards who lack an elite first step and find other ways to beat you, Deron Williams and the above mentioned Andre Miller both come to mind, but obviously comparing guys with long NBA careers to guys who probably will never get a shot is a bit of a foolish exercise. Derek Fisher's still on an NBA roster but Derek Fisher has been defying logic for several years now.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 21, 2014 8:59:25 GMT -5
DSR as a poor man's version of Stephen Curry doesn't seem too unreasonable (although Curry is obviously much skinnier). Same listed height and limited athleticism, even down to having another PG on the court with him most of the time with Davidson.
Another potentially good upside comp is Jimmer Fredette. DSR isn't going to be asked to use 1/3 of the Hoyas possessions, but Fredette was under 6'1 without shoes on and obviously does not have NBA athleticism. Of course, he was the point guard for BYU his four years there, but he wasn't exactly a pass first kind of guy. Really, that's what it comes down to--can DSR run the point for us the next two years? If he can show that he can do that while maintaining his efficiency, he can be a first round pick. (Obviously, there are things he has to improve on in order to be successful as the PG, like his handle).
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 21, 2014 9:35:54 GMT -5
I don’t know about being a first round pick or a second round pick, or whether he would have to make it through tryouts or anything. Let’s wait to see how al that shakes out in a couple of years. What I do know that the NBA has had guards like Fisher and Steve Kerr who did not have the size for a shooting guard and did not have ideal handling skills. But they made a place for themselves in the NBA because 1)they were picked by the right teams who had big, athletic shooting guards who could handle much of the ball handling load 2)they were fortunate that in the NBA no team presses all game long in the first place and 3) they provided a need by possessing a skill that they could o better than most: shoot.
Pay attention in particular to #3. Big John Thompson used to say often on his old radio show that one could make an NBA team and stick if one could do at least one thing at an NBA level. It could be rebounding, it could be shot-blocking, it could be shooting. DSR can shoot. And unlike guys like Kerr and Fisher he can shoot without having to wait for a teammate to pass him the rock while being left open behind the three-point line. He has a stepback midrange jumper that is legit. No, he won’t be able to get that shot off against anyone at the next level if he made it that far. But he should be able to get away with that enough to make him a credible threat, even if he has to do so coming off the bench.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 21, 2014 10:20:08 GMT -5
To add to what MCI said, DSR's offensive efficiency is near the top for the John Thompson III era. Obviously, offensive efficiency does not tell the whole story, but it clearly shows DSR is one of the best players (and probably the best guard) John Thompson III has ever had. 2006: Hibbert - 120.9 2007: Green - 114.4, Hibbert - 130.8, Wallace - 119.7 2008: Hibbert - 118.8, Wallace - 121.8 2009: Freeman - 115.2 2010: Freeman - 119.8 2011: Freeman - 116.7 2012: Porter - 117.5 2013: Porter - 118.8 2014: DSR - 120.9 Clearly, Hibbert's 2007 season was off the charts, but DSR's 2014 is better than nearly all these other players. For what its worth, Wallace used a lot fewer possessions than DSR, which makes DSR's numbers even more impressive. For me, you can argue with Freeman on pure scoring. But the rest of their games, DSR beats Free. He's already a better defender. He's a better passer on a team with nobody to pass to. The rebounding is no contest. In the JTIII era, only Jessie Sapp might be able to compete for the top spot as a rebounding guard. And it's the traffic rebounding and late game rebounding for a guy who plays so many minutes and so many hard minutes that separates DSR.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 21, 2014 10:31:27 GMT -5
To add to what MCI said, DSR's offensive efficiency is near the top for the John Thompson III era. Obviously, offensive efficiency does not tell the whole story, but it clearly shows DSR is one of the best players (and probably the best guard) John Thompson III has ever had. 2006: Hibbert - 120.9 2007: Green - 114.4, Hibbert - 130.8, Wallace - 119.7 2008: Hibbert - 118.8, Wallace - 121.8 2009: Freeman - 115.2 2010: Freeman - 119.8 2011: Freeman - 116.7 2012: Porter - 117.5 2013: Porter - 118.8 2014: DSR - 120.9 Clearly, Hibbert's 2007 season was off the charts, but DSR's 2014 is better than nearly all these other players. For what its worth, Wallace used a lot fewer possessions than DSR, which makes DSR's numbers even more impressive. For me, you can argue with Freeman on pure scoring. But the rest of their games, DSR beats Free. He's already a better defender. He's a better passer on a team with nobody to pass to. The rebounding is no contest. In the JTIII era, only Jessie Sapp might be able to compete for the top spot as a rebounding guard. And it's the traffic rebounding and late game rebounding for a guy who plays so many minutes and so many hard minutes that separates DSR. I think Freeman may not even have an argument as a better pure scorer when DSR's done, at least production wise--you have to put a lot of weight on the better level of competition to get there (Hoyas SoS was #2 and #1 Austin's junior and senior year, and the Hoyas still had a top 20 SoS this year). DSR's having as good a year as a sophomore as Austin ever had (and Austin's sophomore year wasn't particularly impressive). He's also much more willing to attack the basket already (based on his FT attempts--DSR has 175 FTA this year. Austin never had more than 108, which I think is a large enough difference to take into account the new rules).
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Mar 21, 2014 10:31:28 GMT -5
True. To be fair though, the past couple of years Deron Williams looks like a much different than he did early on in his career. In any case, I don't see much similarity between DW and DSR other than their physical size. I realize this, I'm under no delusions that there is a small gap in athleticism between a guy who was in the recent past considered an elite NBA point guard and a guy who you wouldn't even call athletic at the college level. Right now, DSR projects as an unathletic midget NBA 2, which makes comparisons to NBA players difficult because unathletic midget 2s don't exist in the NBA. He would have to move to point in the NBA, which would mean proving that he can run an offense; this is a chance I think he will get next year and surprise a lot of people. He's also going to have to get leaner and quicker, but he's never going to be Russell Westbrook. So I'm thinking scoring point guards who lack an elite first step and find other ways to beat you, Deron Williams and the above mentioned Andre Miller both come to mind, but obviously comparing guys with long NBA careers to guys who probably will never get a shot is a bit of a foolish exercise. Derek Fisher's still on an NBA roster but Derek Fisher has been defying logic for several years now. I agree that comparisons are difficult. The running an offense part could be very important. I do agree with the poster talking about DSR's ability to shoot. That's somewhat difficult to gauge the importance of considering his other "measurables" but it cannot be discounted. DSR continues to improve and it's fun to watch. For his sake, I hope he gets a shot at the next level but, for now, it's fun watching him develop.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 10:36:01 GMT -5
Well I like D and would like to be wrong but naming 2 guys out of 450 total hardly makes what I said above “Not true”. I think if you look up scouting reports on Marshall it will definitely state that as a concern. Either way, how is his game like either of those guys? Both were lottery picks after their Soph seasons and considered the “Best Pure PG’s” in their respective classes. Regardless if he keeps playing this way or even takes it up a notch or more in his final two seasons he will get a serious look from the NBA. That's just the way it is. You can't ignore numbers like that. At the very least the scouts would lke to know if there is one thing he can do well that may make him worthy of a roster spot. And, yes, worse players have been drafted. Limited players do slip into the NBA now and then. They do it all the time, define serious look? They will do their diligence as they do with all prospects, camps, individual workouts, but he’s not on the NBA’s radar imo. Maybe he displays a serious ability to run a team next year and that changes
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 21, 2014 11:38:15 GMT -5
Regardless if he keeps playing this way or even takes it up a notch or more in his final two seasons he will get a serious look from the NBA. That's just the way it is. You can't ignore numbers like that. At the very least the scouts would lke to know if there is one thing he can do well that may make him worthy of a roster spot. And, yes, worse players have been drafted. Limited players do slip into the NBA now and then. They do it all the time, define serious look? They will do their diligence as they do with all prospects, camps, individual workouts, but he’s not on the NBA’s radar imo. Maybe he displays a serious ability to run a team next year and that changes Yeah, I think the biggest factor in DSR's ability to play in the NBA is whether he can run a team successfully. Good thing for him is he'll get the chance to show he can do the next two years.
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 21, 2014 11:41:04 GMT -5
I hope DSR gets the chance this summer to play in an NBA camp, maybe Chris Paul's?
If DSR can distribute the ball next year, on top of his scoring and rebounding, he could get a few triple doubles next year. Although that would take Hopkins not using a ton of possessions.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Mar 21, 2014 13:40:01 GMT -5
I can count many guards in the JTIII era that I consider better than DSR before even considering him even close to an elite talent. What am I missing there? I'm a big Starks and Trawick fan for different reasons on each and I just don't get the fascination with DSR. If Starks and Smith-Rivera were the best backcourt in the country like the early season media hyped we would have had a better season than this regardless of what our front court looked like. I think he let us down with his shooting in many games that cost us from seeing them in the tournament. You, sir, are either a moron or a troll. You could have just stopped there. Balla disciple I guess...
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HoyaChris
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Post by HoyaChris on Mar 21, 2014 13:50:07 GMT -5
You, sir, are either a moron or a troll. You could have just stopped there. Balla disciple I guess... I would point out that moron and troll are not mutually exclusive.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 21, 2014 13:59:22 GMT -5
It always amazed me how well he could score. Bagwell?? Do you mean Bagley of BC that played on celtics?? Bagley yeah
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 21, 2014 14:01:14 GMT -5
I can count many guards in the JTIII era that I consider better than DSR before even considering him even close to an elite talent. What am I missing there? I'm a big Starks and Trawick fan for different reasons on each and I just don't get the fascination with DSR. If Starks and Smith-Rivera were the best backcourt in the country like the early season media hyped we would have had a better season than this regardless of what our front court looked like. I think he let us down with his shooting in many games that cost us from seeing them in the tournament. You, sir, are either a moron or a troll. There isn't one guard of III's reign who came close to being as good as a soph as DSR has been this season. Not a single one. If you disagree please list the guards you think matched him at the same stages of their careers and give me the pleasure of laughing you right off the board. In terms of scoring and efficiency DSR is hard to beat regardless of position. Not too many of III's players have had better scoring seasons. And to be honest if it weren't for those bruised ribs that set him back for about five to six games I think DSR finishes ahead of Starks as a First Team Big East Player (he was more on a roll at that point). Here is a guy who already has more 30 point games (and just a soph!) than any other player for III and he gets those points without jacking up a ridiculous number of shots. Here is a guy that has a realistic shot at scoring 2000 points if he stays healthy for four seasons. The same could not be said for Jon Wallace, Austin Freeman, Chris Wright, Jason Clark and Markel Starks. My boy Jabril, my favorite player on this team, may not even make it to 1000 points. And when you consider that DSR is a better rebounder than he has any right to be, is pretty good at creating for others and is that rare college player to possess a deadly midrange game, then one is being petty or pretty blind not to give him his due. The more amazing thing is that his best years are likely still ahead of him. Also his worse stretch of shooting this season came during the rib injury. Outside of that he has been the best shooter on this team, the most consistent good shooter. You dare say his nights off, which the vast majority of players suffer from, cost this team wins and yet you slurp Markel and Jabril who have had even more "off nights" in terms of shooting than DSR has had. Markel is a senior who got off to a slow start this season when it came to shooting and still had a few too many really bad shooting performances even when he got into form around the time of Big East play. But it is DSR you choose to pick on? As for the best backcourt in the nation, NO ONE in the media was calling them that. No one in the national media paid any attention to DSR coming into the season and only a handful more recognized Markel. They didn't make any of the top backcourt lists that you find in the preseason magazines. Let me repeat that: they made NONE of those lists. So you are purposely making crap up about how the media fawned over them or you simply don't know what you are talking about. Personally I thought they warranted some mention and I think how they played this year strengthens my opinion, but going into the season the actual media didn’t have them on the radar as far as being one of the very top backcourts. I thought we had already established that eagle is just balla's undercover identity. Pay him no nevermind.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2014 11:45:17 GMT -5
I just don't understand why he has so much problem admitting that DSR is even a decent player ("he blows"). He was second team all Big East. That has to count for something. Why doesn't he understand that no one is going to support that position on this board. BTW Eagle's positions are the exact same as Balla's. He also writes just like Balla.
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blueeagle
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Post by blueeagle on Mar 22, 2014 12:22:14 GMT -5
Balla = eagle54, maybe.
Balla = blue eagle, definitely not.
DSR > AFree, probably.
DSR > dFish or SKerr, let's see.
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jester
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Post by jester on Mar 22, 2014 13:42:10 GMT -5
I could see DSR having a Patty Mills type impact in NBA. Would need to find that type of team though.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 22, 2014 21:46:01 GMT -5
I love DSR also but it isn't close between him an AFree. The soph Austin would have avg 30pt a game on this team. Austin's soph year he had DSummer and GMonroe on his team. Remember DSummer's attitude during that season. If Austin would have been on a team with just Chris as a only other option {which is equivalent to DSR only having Kel} he would have scored at will. I believe some of you have forgotten how good of a scorer AFree was before the diabetes...........
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Hoyaholic
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Post by Hoyaholic on Mar 22, 2014 21:55:23 GMT -5
I love DSR also but it isn't close between him an AFree. The soph Austin would have avg 30pt a game on this team. Austin's soph year he had DSummer and GMonroe on his team. Remember DSummer's attitude during that season. If Austin would have been on a team with just Chris as a only other option {which is equivalent to DSR only having Kel} he would have scored at will. I believe some of you have forgotten how good of a scorer AFree was before the diabetes........... Not sure I follow your logic. If anything, the fact that there is only one other scoring option on the team has allowed teams to key in on just the two of them, and makes their ability to score that much more impressive.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 22, 2014 22:07:41 GMT -5
I love DSR also but it isn't close between him an AFree. The soph Austin would have avg 30pt a game on this team. Austin's soph year he had DSummer and GMonroe on his team. Remember DSummer's attitude during that season. If Austin would have been on a team with just Chris as a only other option {which is equivalent to DSR only having Kel} he would have scored at will. I believe some of you have forgotten how good of a scorer AFree was before the diabetes........... Not sure I follow your logic. If anything, the fact that there is only one other scoring option on the team has allowed teams to key in on just the two of them, and makes their ability to score that much more impressive. I disagree. Your logic is true but JTIII is an inside out coach at heart. Austin didn't become the 1 option until the Marquette game his junior year. DaJuan took the majority of the shots and Austin was also behind Greg on the list of scoring options. This year DSR and Kel were option 1 and 1a in whatever order. There isn't one offensive skill that DSR does better that AFree. He was the better athlete, he shot better, he dribbled better, and he scored over and through defenders. DSR is crafty and he can score but I still say it isn't close......
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