tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jun 5, 2014 22:43:01 GMT -5
Binx nailed it. There are plenty of avenues for kids that want to play ball but don't want to be in school for whatever reason. It has nothing to do with agreeing with the system or education in general. Whitt decided to accept an offer from Georgetown as a student and as a ballplayer. He chose to not show up on the student side of that. I don't feel bad for him if he has no interest in college. If that was the case from the jump, he should have skipped college and played abroad or signed on for the D-League if he impressed enough to do so. You can't force a person to get an education in any sense. They either want to do it or accept that it's a good thing to do or they don't. I wish Greg the best of luck in chasing his dream. Personally, I don't think he did himself any favors in his time at Georgetown but, hopefully, he impresses in the D-League and it works out for him. He won't have a degree to fall back on but, from all reports, that's not particularly important to him. School isn't for everyone. And tons of people make livings after falling short of their own expectations with or without a college education. It's just not the high percentage play. People are always free to bet on themselves. That bet has odds. Those odds are better with an education. But if you're a gambler with talent, give it a shot. Too bad that, in the real world, opportunities aren't plentiful. As a basketball player? The opportunities are even fewer. Greg has talent, no doubt. I hope he has the work ethic to match, coupled with a little luck, to get him to where he wants to be. Like it or not, getting exposure in college is the clearest route to the NBA unless you're a freak like Kobe or Lebron. Greg isn't that and won't ever be that. He better be prepared to work his tail off because he took himself out of the spotlight that is CBB.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jun 6, 2014 10:48:50 GMT -5
Binx nailed it. There are plenty of avenues for kids that want to play ball but don't want to be in school for whatever reason. It has nothing to do with agreeing with the system or education in general. Whitt decided to accept an offer from Georgetown as a student and as a ballplayer. He chose to not show up on the student side of that. I don't feel bad for him if he has no interest in college. If that was the case from the jump, he should have skipped college and played abroad or signed on for the D-League if he impressed enough to do so. You can't force a person to get an education in any sense. They either want to do it or accept that it's a good thing to do or they don't. I wish Greg the best of luck in chasing his dream. Personally, I don't think he did himself any favors in his time at Georgetown but, hopefully, he impresses in the D-League and it works out for him. He won't have a degree to fall back on but, from all reports, that's not particularly important to him. School isn't for everyone. And tons of people make livings after falling short of their own expectations with or without a college education. It's just not the high percentage play. People are always free to bet on themselves. That bet has odds. Those odds are better with an education. But if you're a gambler with talent, give it a shot. Too bad that, in the real world, opportunities aren't plentiful. As a basketball player? The opportunities are even fewer. Greg has talent, no doubt. I hope he has the work ethic to match, coupled with a little luck, to get him to where he wants to be. Like it or not, getting exposure in college is the clearest route to the NBA unless you're a freak like Kobe or Lebron. Greg isn't that and won't ever be that. He better be prepared to work his tail off because he took himself out of the spotlight that is CBB. I thought the original point was that there needs to be more options for kids who do not want, or cannot handle, the rigors of education at the college level. My point was/is that we do not need to be creating anymore avenues for kids to skirt getting a college education. Our kids need to be encouraged to go to college, get a degree. As a matter of fact, we need more encouragers like JT-2.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jun 7, 2014 13:56:30 GMT -5
I'm sorry but playing in the D league or overseas is not the same as playing minor league baseball. Minor league baseball is intended to prepare you for the big leagues. You are drafted by a big league team. given hitting or pitching instruction and are a member of a major league teams organization. You are paid decently and given a food allowance. Your medical bills are covered. In short you are treated like a future asset of that team and are given every opportunity to excel. Consider it an apprentice program.for someone who has dreamed of being a professional athlete. Face it folks there are just a lot of people with tremendous god- given talent that should not be forced to attend college to attain their dreams. Can you imagine Babe Ruth or Dizzy Dean in college? How about Lenny Dykstra or John Kruk? And don't tell me UNC is unique. Like I said it hurts the kids and corrupts the schools.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jun 7, 2014 14:47:41 GMT -5
I'm sorry but playing in the D league or overseas is not the same as playing minor league baseball. Minor league baseball is intended to prepare you for the big leagues. You are drafted by a big league team. given hitting or pitching instruction and are a member of a major league teams organization. You are paid decently and given a food allowance. Your medical bills are covered. In short you are treated like a future asset of that team and are given every opportunity to excel. Consider it an apprentice program.for someone who has dreamed of being a professional athlete. Face it folks there are just a lot of people with tremendous god- given talent that should not be forced to attend college to attain their dreams. Can you imagine Babe Ruth or Dizzy Dean in college? How about Lenny Dykstra or John Kruk? And don't tell me UNC is unique. Like I said it hurts the kids and corrupts the schools. The question is though, is there a positive to a kid going to college and getting a college degree?
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jun 8, 2014 19:38:00 GMT -5
Of course there is if the kid wants to go to college and is capable of handling the pressures, academic and emotional, of college. But it is sad to force a kid to go to college so he can realize a dream of playing in the NBA. And it totally corrupts the schools. The highest paid person at a Div 1 school is the football or basketball coach AND his assistant! I. Could go on.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jun 8, 2014 19:44:37 GMT -5
Of course there is if the kid wants to go to college and is capable of handling the pressures, academic and emotional, of college. But it is sad to force a kid to go to college so he can realize a dream of playing in the NBA. And it totally corrupts the schools. The highest paid person at a Div 1 school is the football or basketball coach AND his assistant! I. Could go on. Good points drq.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jun 8, 2014 20:04:36 GMT -5
Of course there is if the kid wants to go to college and is capable of handling the pressures, academic and emotional, of college. But it is sad to force a kid to go to college so he can realize a dream of playing in the NBA. And it totally corrupts the schools. The highest paid person at a Div 1 school is the football or basketball coach AND his assistant! I. Could go on. Oh, come on. It's kind of ridiculous to frame this as "Greg just wasn't right for college" and speak as if he's some hypothetical kid out there. Greg came to college, repeatedly let down his teammates, and screwed up stupidly several times. I sincerely hope he figures out how to follow through with something in his life, but jeez, let's not make him out to be a misunderstood saint here.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 8, 2014 20:20:05 GMT -5
Nobody is trying to paint him as a saint, the reality is some people just can't deal with college. That's a fact, not an opinion.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jun 8, 2014 21:47:13 GMT -5
This really is an interesting topic. And not just as it pertains to athletes. College pretty much is what HS used to be. It guarantees one nothing but it does put one in better stead than those who don't go to college. There aren't a lot of avenues for those that aren't built for college or don't want to go to college. I have a cousin that, while he's a very bright guy, wasn't built for school. It never was for him. Not that he couldn't do well. He had no desire or, in retrospect, need to be there after a certain point. The fact that he built a successful company is a huge anomaly. And that was 15 years ago now. What about the kids that get to college and just party and don't bother much with the education part of it? There are tons of college grads that can't find work. I'm not lamenting the lack of options for guys like Greg that aren't interested in going to school. That's the way it is for all kids. It was true even when I was in school. It's a very long shot to be successful without getting an education. I don't have any real sympathy for the guy or his "lack of options" in his chosen field. That's true for EVERYONE that doesn't go to college or beyond. It's probably an even longer shot for Greg because of the selectivity of the employers in his field but still. He had an opportunity that he chose not to maximize. He's in the same boat as a million other kids that do the same thing. But I hope he realizes that his options are limited and he had better put everything he has into the one boat he's now chosen to captain. Lack of effort or commitment now will have much different consequences than sitting on a bench in a suit. He decided to leave college. And, in many ways, college is a putting off of real world choices and real world consequences. He can't put off any of that now. Party is over. Childhood is finished. As long as he realizes that, he'll be OK. But if he thinks he can still put in less than maximum effort and get by on his measurables, he's sadly mistaken. I hope JT3 had a very realistic exit interview with Greg and that Greg asked some questions and came away realizing that it's his future that's at stake. And, while a lot of people were invested in his success these past couple of years and so they'd give him the support and help he needed at times, it's pretty much only him that is invested in it now because that support system is gone. Slacking is no longer an option. Having said all of that, I do hope he's got a plan and is working his butt off to succeed in what he's chosen. I still don't like that he let his team down but that doesn't mean that I wish to see him fail. Quite the opposite actually. People make mistakes and crap away opportunities. I know I have. I didn't do it, necessarily, on purpose and meant no harm whilst doing it. I didn't know better and didn't appreciate what was in front of me. Not because I was a bad person. It happens. I hope to see him realize his dream even though he's now on a more difficult path to its realization. Good luck to Greg and I hope that, in the event that he doesn't make it happen, it's not for lack of effort. That's a tough one to live down later on.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jun 8, 2014 23:27:09 GMT -5
Of course there is if the kid wants to go to college and is capable of handling the pressures, academic and emotional, of college. But it is sad to force a kid to go to college so he can realize a dream of playing in the NBA. And it totally corrupts the schools. The highest paid person at a Div 1 school is the football or basketball coach AND his assistant! I. Could go on. Good points drq. Lt's not miss the point. No one is saying that the kid should be forced to go to college. Of course, not everyone is cut out for college. But kids do need to know what their options are in life, with or without a college education. Also, as I have said before, the old adage of a back-up plan just in case the wheels come off with the non-college education. Education still is the best option because it empowers one regardless of the path one chooses to go down. Furthermore, to use the easy cop out that many of these kids are not intellectually and emotionally fit for college is selling those individuals short. Some of our athletes (Kentucky is a case in point), believes in short cuts. They want instant gratification, instant fame and fortune. And the sad part of it is that it seems to be a coup pulled off by these students and some coaches. However, there are no short cuts in life. Many of these kids are sacrificing growth, education, and real maturity to get to the top. And yes they may have a quantitative life but not a qualitative one.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jun 11, 2014 10:11:07 GMT -5
My daughter has been following this board and mentioned something that we should also consider. Those scholarships going to athletes who may or may not really want to be in college but are there to get a better shot at the NBA could be going to kids from low income families who desperately want to go to college but can't afford it or don't want to be saddled with huge student loans. I love Hoya hoops and will continue my 5 game weekend mini-plan no matter what but I'm reminded of what I believe Robert Maynard, President of the University of Chicago, said after he cancelled the university's intercollegiate athletic programs back in the 20's or 30's. He said he didn't see how they fostered academic excellence. And remember, they used to be a football powerhouse when he did this.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 11, 2014 10:15:28 GMT -5
My daughter has been following this board and mentioned something that we should also consider. Those scholarships going to athletes who may or may not really want to be in college but are there to get a better shot at the NBA could be going to kids from low income families who desperately want to go to college but can't afford it or don't want to be saddled with huge student loans. I love Hoya hoops and will continue my 5 game weekend mini-plan no matter what but I'm reminded of what I believe Robert Maynard, President of the University of Chicago, said after he cancelled the university's intercollegiate athletic programs back in the 20's or 30's. He said he didn't see how they fostered academic excellence. And remember, they used to be a football powerhouse when he did this. Hindsight is 20/20
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 10:44:18 GMT -5
But let's be fair about this. The basketball program makes money (ticket sales, and television rights) and that is the source of the money to provide these kids with scholarships. Also remember that many of these basketball players do come from low income families.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 11, 2014 10:56:36 GMT -5
My daughter has been following this board and mentioned something that we should also consider. Those scholarships going to athletes who may or may not really want to be in college but are there to get a better shot at the NBA could be going to kids from low income families who desperately want to go to college but can't afford it or don't want to be saddled with huge student loans. Georgetown provides full-need financial aid to all accepted students. A basketball scholarship isn't holding anyone back from that aid. I love Hoya hoops and will continue my 5 game weekend mini-plan no matter what but I'm reminded of what I believe Robert Maynard, President of the University of Chicago, said after he cancelled the university's intercollegiate athletic programs back in the 20's or 30's. He said he didn't see how they fostered academic excellence. And remember, they used to be a football powerhouse when he did this. The Robert Maynard Hutchins hagiography would like people to believe UC was still a player in the Big Ten when he ended play, but it just wasn't so. In its last 11 Big Ten games through 1939, the Maroons were outscored by a combined 440-40, and by then UC didn't even play a full conference slate. Its wins after 1936 all came against what are now DIII schools.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 11, 2014 12:07:12 GMT -5
Georgetown provides full-need financial aid to all accepted students. A basketball scholarship isn't holding anyone back from that aid. This is correct - to a point. A scholarship like those received by basketball players means they do not have to pay any tuition. "Full-need" financial aid is based on the perceived need after filing a FAFSA form. My parents went into significant debt to pay for my education at Georgetown (since the portion of their income allocated to tuition was an extremely high percentage, and hence my "need" was not nearly as much as it probably should have been) and I took out student loans (that are still not fully paid, but thankfully have an extremely low interest rate). I had other friends with similar scenarios. Georgetown does give very good aid to some, especially if your parents' income is extremely low, my only point is that it's not the same as an athletic scholarship. Personally, I do not have a problem with these types of athletic scholarships. As somebody else said, it largely pays for itself through revenue, and it does a lot to improve Georgetown's brand. Basketball is part of what helped put Georgetown on the national map in the 1980s. I probably would have a problem with scholarships for Division I-AA football, since I think that would be a significant expenditure with very little reward (and it certainly wouldn't pay for itself), but that's a whole other story.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 11, 2014 14:29:30 GMT -5
Personally, I do not have a problem with these types of athletic scholarships. As somebody else said, it largely pays for itself through revenue, and it does a lot to improve Georgetown's brand. Basketball is part of what helped put Georgetown on the national map in the 1980s. I probably would have a problem with scholarships for Division I-AA football, since I think that would be a significant expenditure with very little reward (and it certainly wouldn't pay for itself), but that's a whole other story. Are scholarships only available for some reward? If so, do you then have a problem with the scholarships given in lacrosse, track, soccer, golf, and baseball, none of which "pay" for itself, at least in a literal sense? (We can talk about this on the football board should there be interest in doing so.)
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 11, 2014 14:41:26 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with athletic scholarships given in other sports. To be honest, aside from knowing we do give scholarships in basketball and do not in football, I don't know to what extent Georgetown provides athletic scholarships in other sports. I imagine they do.
The only reason I raised other sports was the point drquigley raised above, about taking spots from people who otherwise might deserve it for other reasons. I think the impact of that on basketball is very limited because basketball pays for itself - arguably, the 13 scholarships in basketball are possible to some extent because of the program's revenue. And other sports scholarships are probably aided by the basketball revenue, as well. I don't think this is unique to Georgetown.
My main issue with adding scholarships for football is that there would be a very large number required compared to any other sport, it would be very expensive for a school that generally has problems raising money for sports, and there seems to be little administration / alumni support for it beyond a small group of vocal alumni. But, as you said, that's probably more appropriately discussed on the football board at some point.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jun 12, 2014 15:09:38 GMT -5
My daughter has been following this board and mentioned something that we should also consider. Those scholarships going to athletes who may or may not really want to be in college but are there to get a better shot at the NBA could be going to kids from low income families who desperately want to go to college but can't afford it or don't want to be saddled with huge student loans. Georgetown provides full-need financial aid to all accepted students. A basketball scholarship isn't holding anyone back from that aid. I love Hoya hoops and will continue my 5 game weekend mini-plan no matter what but I'm reminded of what I believe Robert Maynard, President of the University of Chicago, said after he cancelled the university's intercollegiate athletic programs back in the 20's or 30's. He said he didn't see how they fostered academic excellence. And remember, they used to be a football powerhouse when he did this. The Robert Maynard Hutchins hagiography would like people to believe UC was still a player in the Big Ten when he ended play, but it just wasn't so. In its last 11 Big Ten games through 1939, the Maroons were outscored by a combined 440-40, and by then UC didn't even play a full conference slate. Its wins after 1936 all came against what are now DIII schools. Could that record be due to the fact that Chicago was de-emphasizing football and had cut back significantly on scholarships? My point is that Maynard could see what big time athletics was doing to colleges and decided to opt out. He didn't opt out because the couldn't compete he opted out because he didn't want Chicago to do what it would take to compete.
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Post by arlingtonhoya05 on Nov 12, 2014 16:04:27 GMT -5
What is Greg up to these days? Astonishing fall from grace.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Nov 12, 2014 16:26:26 GMT -5
It had been reported last spring that he intended to try the NBA's D-League this year, but his name does not appear on any D-League rosters (in that renowned source, Wikipedia).
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