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Post by professorhoya on Feb 10, 2013 1:41:20 GMT -5
Rebounding is more about size (height, arm length), muscle, and athleticism (vertical plus 2nd and 3rd jump quickness). You have to have those things and then desire comes into the equation. Hopkins is about average height for a college center. He has long arms but lacks muscle. His vertical is okay but his 2nd and 3rd jump are way too slow. I also think he might lack coordination like some extremely tall people because I've seen him miss about 8 dunks this year and he tends to fumble the ball when he gets it off a pass or rebound. He reminds me of a shorter Elden Campbell Alot of the stuff will take care of it self in a year or two just like with Lubick's progression. However he is going to have to get stronger and bigger, he simply gets pushed around (at 6-9 223 lbs) whenever he goes up against space eaters (6-9 250 Bilal Dixon, 6-8 270 Jarell Stokes, 6-8 290 Devonae Gardner or 7 foot Samoan physical specimen Stephan Adams) In this game you had two bangers in Austin Johnson 6-8 250 and Judge Wally 6-9 250 who could just push around the frail 6-9 223 lb Hopkins. That's why you need 6-9 250 lb Moses in their or Josh Smith/Tyler Adams (next year). Yeah... this just isn't true. Otto boards. So does DSR. It's about positioning. Barkley was heavy but short. Rodman was light but ripped. Both were small. Hop has the size but not the skill or the desire yet. DSR probably boxes Hop out in practice. That said, Hop has a bunch of potential. And we saw his best game yet as a Hoya. He's got the fire that recruiting reports sort of left up in the air and that's a good thing. He looked really confident today and that's a good place to start. He's quick and his post game is improving. There's a nervousness to how he plays. If he can lose that, I think he'll be OK. He's working the hook and overcooking the layups. That screams nervousness and trying to do too much to me. That's not the mark of a kid that is lacking motor or want to win. The opposite actually and that is a great thing. Barkley was 6-4 but had extremely long arms, and weighed 250 lbs. Which at the time would have been the size of an NFL defensive end or standup linebacker. (Dexter Manely was 6-3 253 lbs, Lawrence Taylor 6-4 256 lbs). He also had a high vertical and his 2nd and 3rd jump were exceptional. At the time the average power forward was between 6-6 to 6-8 so though he was giving up a little bit in height the difference isn't like today. Rodman was also a physical specimen. His athleticism was off the charts. Especially in his early years in Detroit. High vertical, and his 2nd and 3rd jumps were among the best in the league. He had long arms and also had a muscular 6-8 228 lbs frame. By Rodman's time the average power forward was about 6-8 to 6-10. Neither guy was "small" for their position or "unathletic". If rebounding was just a matter of desire or "wanting it" then you would see players go from being horrible rebounders to rebounding machines but that never happens. I really can't think of anyone at the college or pro level who went from being a below average rebounder to a league leader, can you? Only way it happens is if someone has a 7 inch growth spurt like David Robinson but then that's a direct result of size increase and vertical increase rather than "desire" or "wanting it".
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 10, 2013 8:43:40 GMT -5
And Notre Dames amazing touchdown jesus win in five ot's over the villle puts them with FOUR losses and us in third if i can ad > Dont like notre dame but that game was freaking AMAZING. go hoyas beat quette.
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,459
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Post by bmartin on Feb 10, 2013 10:50:54 GMT -5
Defensive rebounding is a team stat. Offensive rebounding is an individual stat.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 10, 2013 11:13:59 GMT -5
Defensive rebounding is a team stat. Offensive rebounding is an individual stat. This.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Feb 10, 2013 15:42:14 GMT -5
Yeah... this just isn't true. Otto boards. So does DSR. It's about positioning. Barkley was heavy but short. Rodman was light but ripped. Both were small. Hop has the size but not the skill or the desire yet. DSR probably boxes Hop out in practice. That said, Hop has a bunch of potential. And we saw his best game yet as a Hoya. He's got the fire that recruiting reports sort of left up in the air and that's a good thing. He looked really confident today and that's a good place to start. He's quick and his post game is improving. There's a nervousness to how he plays. If he can lose that, I think he'll be OK. He's working the hook and overcooking the layups. That screams nervousness and trying to do too much to me. That's not the mark of a kid that is lacking motor or want to win. The opposite actually and that is a great thing. Barkley was 6-4 but had extremely long arms, and weighed 250 lbs. Which at the time would have been the size of an NFL defensive end or standup linebacker. (Dexter Manely was 6-3 253 lbs, Lawrence Taylor 6-4 256 lbs). He also had a high vertical and his 2nd and 3rd jump were exceptional. At the time the average power forward was between 6-6 to 6-8 so though he was giving up a little bit in height the difference isn't like today. Rodman was also a physical specimen. His athleticism was off the charts. Especially in his early years in Detroit. High vertical, and his 2nd and 3rd jumps were among the best in the league. He had long arms and also had a muscular 6-8 228 lbs frame. By Rodman's time the average power forward was about 6-8 to 6-10. Neither guy was "small" for their position or "unathletic". If rebounding was just a matter of desire or "wanting it" then you would see players go from being horrible rebounders to rebounding machines but that never happens. I really can't think of anyone at the college or pro level who went from being a below average rebounder to a league leader, can you? Only way it happens is if someone has a 7 inch growth spurt like David Robinson but then that's a direct result of size increase and vertical increase rather than "desire" or "wanting it". Barkley was 6-4, 260, had long arms and had a 42 inch vertical...there's a reason that there's never been another Charles Barkley...he was a freak of nature
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,927
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Post by NCHoya on Feb 10, 2013 19:46:17 GMT -5
The best thing about this game was that it had the smell of a typical Hoya loss all over it. Away game in a tough arena. Opponent shooting lights out from 3. Getting muscled off the boards. Best players in foul trouble. BUT THEY WON! Didn't quit, didn't panic, and guys stepped up. Otto gives this team so much more than they've had from other "stars" in the last few years. When they need him he can score, rebound, play D, or pass. He has BE Player of the Year and/or BET MVP written all over him. If the commentary today didn't tell you all you need to know, there's no way Otto gets BE POY. These guys look at numbers only. What Otto does doesn't always show up in the line. Jack Cooley, statistically, is better than Otto and Cooley is wildly overrated. Otto deserves every bit of praise he's now getting and probably more. Kid is legit. Sadly, awards like that are too narrowly focused. There's no player that is more valuable to a BE team than Otto is to this squad and it's helping the Hoyas to win. ND loses. Shut up about Russdiculous. I don't care about his scoring numbers because he hurts some games as much as he helps others. Yet he gets POY chatter. THAT'S Russdiculous. But, sadly, that's how things work. Otto is the MVP of the league in terms of what he means to his team and all that he can do. You'd be hard pressed to find any coach in the league that wouldn't trade any one of their players straight up for Otto. Georgetown would ask for a player to be named later in pretty much ever case I can think of. That, to me, is BE POY. He won't get it but he, in fact, is the BE POY right now. The good news is the NBA knows how much better Otto is than these other paper stat kings. Otto will be getting the last laugh when he deposits his multi-million dollar paycheck from an NBA franchise. While Cooley and Russdiculous pound away in the NBADL
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alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,216
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Post by alleninxis on Feb 10, 2013 20:08:46 GMT -5
Nobody on Louisville belongs in the POY race. (And Dieng if anyone)
IMO, it's Otto and after him, Napier.
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Post by berrypatch26 on Feb 10, 2013 20:27:07 GMT -5
No one said Hop wasn't good. Most said he was in some sort of slump/confidence vacuum. Clutch rebounds, clutch free throws and a clutch block by Hop! Courtesy of the Washington Post (which also credited Otto and Markel, for sure, as well as DSR, Jabril, Moses and AB): Georgetown’s final margin was supplied by sophomore center Mikael Hopkins, who grabbed a key defensive rebound, sank a pair of free throws and blocked a shot in a 16-second burst just before the buzzer sounded. The 6-foot-9 Hopkins, who has struggled with his confidence and form since filling the big-man’s role this season, finished with a career-high 14 points. “With Nate going into foul trouble and Coach allowing me to play a little bit longer, I was able to get in my groove,” Hopkins said. “When I made a mistake, he let me play through it.”
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 10, 2013 21:00:20 GMT -5
That quote does not make me think Hopkins has any idea of why his PT has decreased or that it's a result of his own inability to play basketball well.
During this 7-1, we've been a good defensive rebounding team in 4 of the 8 games. Those four are the four games in which Hopkins played less than 30 possessions.
I'm glad he made some shots. But I really can't be a fan when he refuses to put effort forward on the D boards.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 10, 2013 21:13:50 GMT -5
key rebbie key block and key two free throws IN CRUNCH TIME i kinda sorta like that but we will see go mikel BE MEAN need it vs gardner et all tomorrow nite. GO HOyas. ;D ;D
ps its FEBRUARY NOW FOR REAL.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 10, 2013 21:23:19 GMT -5
That quote does not make me think Hopkins has any idea of why his PT has decreased or that it's a result of his own inability to play basketball well. He just said he gets pulled when he makes mistakes (and doesn't play well)....does that not count?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 10, 2013 21:54:41 GMT -5
That quote does not make me think Hopkins has any idea of why his PT has decreased or that it's a result of his own inability to play basketball well. He just said he gets pulled when he makes mistakes (and doesn't play well)....does that not count? It reads more to me like "See what I can do when the coach isn't screwing with my PT?" Hopkins has gotten an incredibly long leash. Acting like he gets pulled when he screws up -- instead of what it is which is he gets pulled up after three or four of them -- is slightly delusional to me.
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idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,177
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Post by idhoya on Feb 10, 2013 21:57:41 GMT -5
let Hop have his moment. If it inspires improved play going forward; we'll all be happy and the team will be better for it.
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Post by dungeon ball on Feb 10, 2013 22:15:53 GMT -5
Nobody on Louisville belongs in the POY race. (And Dieng if anyone) IMO, it's Otto and after him, Napier. But watch it go to Cooley
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Feb 10, 2013 22:15:59 GMT -5
He just said he gets pulled when he makes mistakes (and doesn't play well)....does that not count? It reads more to me like "See what I can do when the coach isn't screwing with my PT?" Hopkins has gotten an incredibly long leash. Acting like he gets pulled when he screws up -- instead of what it is which is he gets pulled up after three or four of them -- is slightly delusional to me. This!!! He was playing 19 minutes a game before his PT was reduced. It was reduced for a reason: he was a liability on both ends of the court; he was making mistake after mistake. Does one good game mean he has turned the corner?
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 10, 2013 22:22:12 GMT -5
It reads to me like, "I don't play that well unless I get into the flow of the game and get comfortable and I haven't been playing well enough to stay on the floor enough"
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Post by detmut on Feb 10, 2013 22:36:48 GMT -5
hopkins career high for rebounds is 6, which he has done twice. this is what he needs to improve. 1 rebound every 10 minutes doesn't cut it for a 6'9" player, especially with whitt out.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Feb 11, 2013 2:19:55 GMT -5
Organic a.., are you kidding me? Hops was trashed on this board.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Feb 11, 2013 17:16:39 GMT -5
I'm just glad someone is giving JT-3 the credit he deserves.
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