SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 3, 2014 16:47:17 GMT -5
Delarosa is whatever to me but If you pass on Delarossa whose your center 2015-2016 season a freshman big or? I haven’t seen much of him but in the game posted on last page he looks much improved in his overall approach and the weight loss is evident. He appears to have some descent skills but needs time to develop. The thing is this is true for almost any big we land unless it’s an Ivan Rabb or someone on that level.. So my question is if not him, who? Fair point. I guess the question is would you rather have Delarosa as a sophomore in '15 or a guy like Commanche or Dickerson as a freshman? Also, Hayes will be a senior-- you've got to assume he'll at least be serviceable then and if we're bringing on Trey that's another sophomore big. Not saying Delarosa wouldnt help-- in fact he might give us the depth up-front that we desperately need. My only concern is that this is another one of those late season signings that havent worked out for us very well previously.... Getting Delarosa doesn't preclude getting those guys -- esp. since Dickerson is sized more like a PF. But its a huge assumption that we're going to land a Dickerson or Comanche, too. That's the flip. I'd rather have sophomore Delarosa than the freshman equivalent in two years.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 3, 2014 17:09:27 GMT -5
One of the things we can do to guard against missing out on top prospects choices/having attrition create roster holes is to create depth. And while we'd like it now, I'd don't mind "spending" a scholarship on a guy who may end up depth or could end up a legit starter.
I don't know enough about Delarosa to know if he'll be ready to contribute or develop, but it is worth noting he's a riser on people's boards rather than a complete unknown. This may not make anyone feel better, but he's much more of an analog to Moses than Hayes, Benimon, Nikita, Vee or even Bowen, who were late fill-ins without any real prospect heat to them (Bowen may have been halfway). Perhaps he's somewhere between Moses and Otto, who blew up but was pegged much higher. Whittington is in that camp as well.
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I don't know about Delarosa in particular, but in a roundabout way, NOT taking players like him -- at least some of them -- are what at times leave us with the situation of not having a lot of options down low.
We took Hayes and Bolden because we missed out on targets we wanted more. If there's a middle ground rather than the boom or bust, I will take it. Especially if DSR + 2014 can be the special; I don't mind being average at C.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Feb 3, 2014 17:31:42 GMT -5
We need someone like Josh Smith at center. Of course we would want him 50-75 pounds lighter and more aggressive. Josh has a very nice touch and footwork around the basket. He is also a very good passer.
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Feb 3, 2014 18:11:57 GMT -5
Delarosa is a good passer and has good footwork, but man he wastes rebounding opps and doesn't even try to block shots - but he'd be good in the Georgetown offense.
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Feb 3, 2014 18:21:17 GMT -5
Watched most of the recent game links that yaboy posted a couple pages back. I don't see Delarosa as a "project" at all, at least not on offense. He'll need some time to develop like any big, but he does have skills. With our lack of depth at center, I would absolutely take him.
Armchair scouting report -- soft hands, really good finisher around the basket, good footwork, good passer, decent jump shot. Big frame. Evident that he has lost weight when comparing to his old videos. If he can lose some more weight and get stronger, dude could be a force with that frame. Good sign that he has put in the work to get in better shape already. Turns the ball over a bit too much.
Defense needs work. Hard to tell how much since they were sticking him in the middle of a zone without a ton of challenges, but he's not a rim protector right now. Guys go around him too easily. Not a good rebounder outside his zone.
Overall, he does remind me of Josh Smith in some ways. Not as polished on offense but similar skills. Weak on defense, though not as immobile as Josh. I don't think Josh is ever going to be an average defender/rebounder, but Delarosa could be ok with work IMO.
How reputable is the guy that tweeted about him committing to us in the spring?
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 4, 2014 1:19:32 GMT -5
You know, I think we don't need a center in 2014--we can just play Reggie Cameron there
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 4, 2014 15:58:51 GMT -5
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 4, 2014 17:11:09 GMT -5
We still have 4 open scholarships for 15. In no way does signing De la Rosa preclude use from continuing to to heavily pursue our top targets in 15. Our post presence next year could potentially be a disaster depending on how the chips fall. I don't really see any risk in bringing the kid in. If he can play, terrific, if he can't then we're no worse off than we would be anyway. Let's say we don't bring this kid in, Smith doesn't return, and Moses decides to move on. We're left with Hopkins and Hayes. I'm probably one of the bigger Hopkins fans on the board, but yikes. And regardless of what happens next year, right now Bradley Hayes is our only big man on the roster for 2015. YIKES! Yes, the 15 class is supposedly loaded with bigs, but have we learned nothing about recruiting/academics in the last two years? Has this entire season not been a lesson in why we need depth at all positions? Are we really comfortable putting all our eggs in the basket of a bunch of HS juniors? I'm not. If we only had a couple scholarships left for 2015, I think this would be a much tougher call. But we still have 4 available. This is kind of a no-brainer imo. I'm starting to become of the opinion we need a big in 2014 no matter what. If De La Rosa is the best of what's left, I say bring him in. Especially considering that it appears the kid actually has some discernible skills in the post.
Personally, I'm in favor of using our 2 open scholarships on Moses and a new big (potentially De la Rosa) and letting Bowen finish up his eligibility elsewhere. Hopkins, Moses, Hayes, De la Rosa looks a whole lot better than Hopkins, Hayes. If Smith returns, even better.
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Post by BeantownHoya on Feb 6, 2014 16:09:23 GMT -5
Shouldn't this be what we are recruiting at the Center position, with the incoming group, and the offense we run? I can't believe we are chasing another Josh Smith, that can't play defense, can't get down the floor, surrounded by an athletic team.
Matt Cimino 6-9 200lbs (Rank higher then De la Rosa by both ESPN and Scout)
Strengths: A super skilled player with good size and length, Cimino has the tools to blossom into a versatile forward. He has a tremendously smooth shooting stroke and is already a very dependable three-point shooter when in rhythm. He is already a mismatch problem with the ability to go to the low post and turn either shoulder around the rim. His hand is so advanced that he can even make little runners when facing up and attacking off the dribble.
Weaknesses: An only average athlete, Cimino doesn't project capable of defending the perimeter at the next level and so will need to work hard in the weight room to build up his frame so that he is capable of battling in the post, especially on the defensive end. Most important will be further experience against a high level of competition as he learns to get his shot off quickly and adjust to the speed and physicality of a high level game.
Bottom Line: A tremendously skilled player who already poses a major mismatch problem, if Cimino dedicates himself to getting stronger and learns to adjust to the speed and physicality of a competitive game, he will have a very bright future.
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Feb 6, 2014 16:23:54 GMT -5
6'9 200 pounds is not cutting it at center. "Average athlete," needs to "build up his frame" to battle in the post, etc. etc. He sounds like a stretch four. Not saying he's not a guy to go after, but I don't see how he's a fit at the center spot. He's basically Otto sized.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 6, 2014 16:26:36 GMT -5
6'9 200 pounds is not cutting it at center. "Average athlete," needs to "build up his frame" to battle in the post, etc. etc. He sounds like a stretch four. Not saying he's not a guy to go after, but I don't see how he's a fit at the center spot. He's basically Otto sized. Yeah, he sounds like a nice player, but we already have three recruits at that sort of stretch four (or swinging to 3).
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dense
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Post by dense on Feb 6, 2014 17:43:49 GMT -5
Shouldn't this be what we are recruiting at the Center position, with the incoming group, and the offense we run? I can't believe we are chasing another Josh Smith, that can't play defense, can't get down the floor, surrounded by an athletic team. Matt Cimino 6-9 200lbs (Rank higher then De la Rosa by both ESPN and Scout) Strengths: A super skilled player with good size and length, Cimino has the tools to blossom into a versatile forward. He has a tremendously smooth shooting stroke and is already a very dependable three-point shooter when in rhythm. He is already a mismatch problem with the ability to go to the low post and turn either shoulder around the rim. His hand is so advanced that he can even make little runners when facing up and attacking off the dribble. Weaknesses: An only average athlete, Cimino doesn't project capable of defending the perimeter at the next level and so will need to work hard in the weight room to build up his frame so that he is capable of battling in the post, especially on the defensive end. Most important will be further experience against a high level of competition as he learns to get his shot off quickly and adjust to the speed and physicality of a high level game. Bottom Line: A tremendously skilled player who already poses a major mismatch problem, if Cimino dedicates himself to getting stronger and learns to adjust to the speed and physicality of a competitive game, he will have a very bright future. I dont know who started this De La Rosa can't get up the floor nonsense but I just saw a game on a college regulation floor him get up and down it fine. He is in decent shape. He doesn't play great d but he is ahead of where Roy was and the fact that he has lost 60lbs in the past 2 years to get down to 255 suggests to me that he is willing to work. Again I'm not saying we should get him but in this case so people are making assumptions about his conditioning and athletic ability that just arent true.
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Feb 6, 2014 20:31:13 GMT -5
Yeah. I'm concerned about his defense but not because of a lack of conditioning or athletic ability. He can get up and down fine.
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Post by daymondmyles on Feb 9, 2014 6:53:51 GMT -5
Love how people are debating whether we should take him when we literally may not have a 5 on the roster next year. Hop CAN play the 5 but should be a 4. Can't depend on Josh or Moses to be here. And Hayes has been awful and who knows if he's sticking around! Do people just want to go in with a 4 playing the 5 next year with no backups?
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Feb 9, 2014 9:50:33 GMT -5
Love how people are debating whether we should take him when we literally may not have a 5 on the roster next year. Hop CAN play the 5 but should be a 4. Can't depend on Josh or Moses to be here. And Hayes has been awful and who knows if he's sticking around! Do people just want to go in with a 4 playing the 5 next year with no backups? Do you at least consider the possibility that DelaRosa may end up being another Hayes who is already being derided by fans as his career wilts away on the bench. There is no guarantee this guy is going to be any good or break into III's rotation. Look, if Josh and Moses and Hayes aren't here next season then of course we want to bring in another big body or two. The question most of have is that if all three are back or even if just two are back (with Hayes possibly leaving) should we spend another schollie late in the season on a guy who is more of a question mark than a sure thing. I agree with those who suggest we go the juco route rather than commit four years to a guy who might not be able to help the team when we would need him to do so the most: next season.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 9, 2014 11:09:38 GMT -5
Love how people are debating whether we should take him when we literally may not have a 5 on the roster next year. Hop CAN play the 5 but should be a 4. Can't depend on Josh or Moses to be here. And Hayes has been awful and who knows if he's sticking around! Do people just want to go in with a 4 playing the 5 next year with no backups? I love how people with short memories don't consider the DelaRosa may end up being another Hayes who is already being derided by fans as his career wilts away on the bench. There is no guarantee this guy is going to be any good or break into III's rotation. Look, if Josh and Moses and Hayes aren't here next season then of course we want to bring in another big body or two. The question most of have is that if all three are back or even if just two are back (with Hayes possibly leaving) should we spend another schollie late in the season on a guy who is more of a question mark than a sure thing. I agree with those who suggest we go the juco route rather than commit four years to a guy who might not be able to help the team when we would need him to do so the most: next season. What has Hayes ended up as? Did you really expect him to play that well before his Jr. season? The kid is a project who came here with only athletic abilities & attributes.. He had/has very little skills to play the game and after spending the summer before his freshman season healing from an injury he should have been redshirted.. Horrible job by the staff dealing with him.. So now only 4 star plus bigs are worth recruiting because lower ranked kids may not work out well? Do folks have that little faith in the staff developing bigs? DelaRosa is not a "project" type kid imo, he has skills to play the game.. He's not a game-changer either, he's a 3 star type recruit that can help a program if the fit is right.. Kinda like the Chabraz kid for Butler who dropped 24 on G'town or Hamilton at Depaul who's shooting 41% from 3 this year both looked/are more skilled than any big playing for G'town right now.. Many on the board would have ripped the staff for recruiting either one them.. Schools have questioned DelaRosa's fitness level which is the right thing to do and he chose to wait out his recruitment to prove he could get in better shape which he has.. If he weighed 250 or so throughout his HS career he wouldn't be available right now, he still has a ways to go but he's made progress.. Waiting it out is working well for him seeing that he's getting a lot of interest from bigger schools now and if he continues to play well he'll get even more.. From the one game I saw him live in and his short clips on video I think he's a better fit for JT3's system than Onuaku would have been and better than Moses or Hayes now.. I'll be honest he's not my ideal either, I'd rather see the Cimino kid get a shot, the team has never had a stretch 5 type.. Given the fact the staff didn't try for Myles Turner right away tells me that JT3 prefers low block 5's.. I'd take DelaRosa for 2014 because he's much much better than nothing.. Also folks should stop with the JUCO kid stuff, anyone who's any good is off the board already too just like HS seniors but we all know it's not JT3's style..
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Feb 9, 2014 12:44:09 GMT -5
So now only 4 star plus bigs are worth recruiting because lower ranked kids may not work out well? Do folks have that little faith in the staff developing bigs? Ummm...maybe? Just a little bit. Part of the problem is that I feel some of the big men III has now (or in the past) just won't ever be comfortable or nearly as good playing away from the basket which is required of bigs in III's system. Some of them would have been better off playing for a program where they could have learned to have gotten better at their strengths; making a difference in the paint. Rebounding, blocking shots, putbacks, perhaps even a postup move or two every game. Typical big man stuff. No matter the flaws in Josh Smith's game and weight at least he knew how to rebound at UCLA. He comes to Gtown and seemed unable to do this basic of things. Was it because in part he had to get used to spending more time away from the basket than he has before in his playing career? As I've written before Don Reid couldn't play in this offense. Don couldn't shoot, couldn't pass, couldn't dribble. But he made it to the NBA because he could do garbage work in the paint and was allowed to stay in the paint while at GU rather than floating on the perimeter on offense and defense. I can't say that any of our current guys would have been good as Don if they did their damage mostly in the paint. But I also can't say that any of them ever got a chance to prove that they could have been good either. III requires his big men to do a whole lot of things so being a Don Reid type isn't going to fly in his system. If you want a big man to develop a different arary of skills then III might be the coach to do so, so long as the big man coming in has some sort of perimeter skills that III can help him refine thus makiing him a threat. Does DelaRosa have such skills, even at a minimum level, or is he mostly a bruiser? If it is the latter then, yes, there is cause for concern...unless III adjusts to the talent he has on his roster.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 9, 2014 13:55:19 GMT -5
Seems like he has a pretty decent foul line jumper at minimum -- he doesn't have a three or anything but he's not Nate. He's supposedly a decent passer. Watching his highlights, he seems like a bigger version of Henry Sims -- bigger but similar in skillset. Maybe not senior year Henry Sims, but still, it doesn't seem like he's only a bruiser.
Like I've said before, I understand both sides of the debate. He's not a no-brainer recruit, but it's kind of silly to compare him to Hayes, either. Maybe someone more similar to either Hopkins or Moses?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 9, 2014 15:02:53 GMT -5
Ummm...maybe? Just a little bit. Part of the problem is that I feel some of the big men III has now (or in the past) just won't ever be comfortable or nearly as good playing away from the basket which is required of bigs in III's system. Some of them would have been better off playing for a program where they could have learned to have gotten better at their strengths; making a difference in the paint. Rebounding, blocking shots, putbacks, perhaps even a postup move or two every game. Typical big man stuff. No matter the flaws in Josh Smith's game and weight at least he knew how to rebound at UCLA. He comes to Gtown and seemed unable to do this basic of things. Was it because in part he had to get used to spending more time away from the basket than he has before in his playing career? As I've written before Don Reid couldn't play in this offense. Don couldn't shoot, couldn't pass, couldn't dribble. But he made it to the NBA because he could do garbage work in the paint and was allowed to stay in the paint while at GU rather than floating on the perimeter on offense and defense. I can't say that any of our current guys would have been good as Don if they did their damage mostly in the paint. But I also can't say that any of them ever got a chance to prove that they could have been good either. III requires his big men to do a whole lot of things so being a Don Reid type isn't going to fly in his system. If you want a big man to develop a different arary of skills then III might be the coach to do so, so long as the big man coming in has some sort of perimeter skills that III can help him refine thus makiing him a threat. Does DelaRosa have such skills, even at a minimum level, or is he mostly a bruiser? If it is the latter then, yes, there is cause for concern...unless III adjusts to the talent he has on his roster. I think he does but I admit the sampling I've seen is small.. If anyone has a subscription to Rivals they have some decent video on him and to be honest it will probably underwhelm you if you're looking for highlight reel stuff.. The best things the vids show is that he's a lot more agile in his movements after the weight loss.. He can play away from the basket and looks to be a good passer from the wing, high-post or the baseline.. One of the clips shows him coming off a curl screen around the top of the key & hitting a jumper, I also saw him hit a baseline jumper from about 15-17 feet in the Bass Pro tourney.. Here are short clips of passes from him and I get that you can't go crazy over 12 second clips but the zip on the passes he makes is very nice imo. Only Nate makes these types of passes now.. www.msgvarsity.com/christ-the-king-s-alkins-baseline-floater-1.1565876?qr=1www.msgvarsity.com/christ-the-king-s-alkins-bucket-and-foul-1.1565896?qr=1www.msgvarsity.com/christ-the-king-s-atson-dunk-1.1551502?qr=1To me the skill set is there it just has to be polished up..
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Feb 9, 2014 15:04:05 GMT -5
Love how people are debating whether we should take him when we literally may not have a 5 on the roster next year. Hop CAN play the 5 but should be a 4. Can't depend on Josh or Moses to be here. And Hayes has been awful and who knows if he's sticking around! Do people just want to go in with a 4 playing the 5 next year with no backups? Awful? Hayes hasn't played enough to refer to his play as being awful.
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