tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 29, 2021 17:23:14 GMT -5
HSB asked a question and I attempted to answer it. No more, no less. I understand that, but I was interested in WHY you had a problem with things that appear to affect no one other than those involved in making those personal decisions. Is it simply because they offend traditional Christian sensibilities? Or do they actually affect you in some other way that I don’t see? The irony, of course, is that the Right tends to harp on that religious freedom trope which is a joke with regard to Christians in particular. But, it seems, Christians on the Right are entirely okay with forcing their version of morality on others even if, as was pointed out, it doesn't affect them in any way.
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Jun 27, 2021 9:58:10 GMT -5
Pope Francis has sent an encouraging letter to a U.S. priest known for his ministry affirming LGBTQ Catholics, comparing his work to Jesus and God. The Rev. James Martin, one of the country’s best-known Catholic priests for his work on “The Late Show with Stephen Colbert” and for his advocacy for gay Catholics, on Sunday shared the June 21 letter from Pope Francis. In the letter, which was in Spanish, Francis thanks Martin for a conference that Martin oversaw Saturday with 1,000 attendees about ministry to LGBTQ Catholics. www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2021/06/27/pope-francis-affirming-letter-lgbtq-gay-catholics/
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jun 27, 2021 10:05:41 GMT -5
Pope Francis has sent an encouraging letter to a U.S. priest known for his ministry affirming LGBTQ Catholics, comparing his work to Jesus and God. The Rev. James Martin, one of the country’s best-known Catholic priests for his work on “The Late Show with Stephen Colbert” and for his advocacy for gay Catholics, on Sunday shared the June 21 letter from Pope Francis. In the letter, which was in Spanish, Francis thanks Martin for a conference that Martin oversaw Saturday with 1,000 attendees about ministry to LGBTQ Catholics. www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2021/06/27/pope-francis-affirming-letter-lgbtq-gay-catholics/Good for the Pope and Father Martin. The last thing the Chirch needs to be doing is dissuading the faithful.
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Jun 27, 2021 12:16:27 GMT -5
It has become an article of faith among some Catholics that to be a member of the Church in good standing means voting Republican; that this is not literally an article of our faith is something many bishops are content to obfuscate. Consider . . . the case of Bill Barr, Trump’s attorney general. I know he is Catholic because he was honored by Catholic organizations and praised by several bishops while serving under Trump, in which capacity he oversaw a revival of the federal death penalty and the execution of 13 people. The Catholic Church teaches that the death penalty is immoral and “inadmissible,” based on the same principle—the inviolable dignity of all human life—that forbids abortion. But the bishops’ response to this spate of killings, and to Barr’s role in it, was muted. No committees were formed to discuss this confusion. If Biden’s Catholic practice demands a response from the bishops’ conference that Barr’s did not, then the incoherence the bishops must address is their own. As a body, however, the American bishops have proved quite inept at representing the teachings of the Church with integrity to a public that sees mostly sin and hypocrisy. They have been particularly bad at reckoning honestly with the ugliness and devastation of President Trump’s four years in office and the scandal of Catholics who supported him. on.theatln.tc/5Fo94qA
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Jun 27, 2021 18:19:52 GMT -5
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Jun 27, 2021 18:40:40 GMT -5
A majority of the nation’s Roman Catholic bishops didn’t seem concerned that by uncritically fusing the vicious culture wars of our secular politics with the church’s sacrament of the Eucharist, they will drive more people away from faith and a transcendent sense of life. The decision of right-wing Catholic bishops to begin drafting a statement that many of them said was aimed at President Biden and his reception of communion was not just a rebuke to him and to other Catholic Democrats. It was also an attack on Pope Francis, who had made clear that he did not want them to go down this divisive road. And it reinforced the suspicions of the church among progressive-leaning young people already alienated from Christian institutions that champion extreme forms of conservative politics. www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/06/27/bishops-pressuring-biden-over-abortion-are-compromising-catholic-church/
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 27, 2021 19:47:16 GMT -5
Father James Martin, S.J. is associated with the Jesuit publication America He's also joining the Georgetown board of directors. www.georgetown.edu/news/board-of-directors-names-new-chair-approves-budget-at-summer-meeting/Political issues aside, Jesuits like Rev. Martin seem to get a certain level of celebrity status, and that doesn't always endear the S.J.'s to the diocesan priests or the religious orders that aren't allowed to go on TV or write books. Gone are the days, of course, when Jesuits ran for Congress, but Martin is one the last Jesuits to have a visibly public persona.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Jun 28, 2021 11:41:03 GMT -5
Father James Martin, S.J. is associated with the Jesuit publication America He's also joining the Georgetown board of directors. www.georgetown.edu/news/board-of-directors-names-new-chair-approves-budget-at-summer-meeting/Political issues aside, Jesuits like Rev. Martin seem to get a certain level of celebrity status, and that doesn't always endear the S.J.'s to the diocesan priests or the religious orders that aren't allowed to go on TV or write books. Gone are the days, of course, when Jesuits ran for Congress, but Martin is one the last Jesuits to have a visibly public persona.I guess the Pope would be another.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jun 28, 2021 18:36:22 GMT -5
Father James Martin, S.J. is associated with the Jesuit publication America He's also joining the Georgetown board of directors. www.georgetown.edu/news/board-of-directors-names-new-chair-approves-budget-at-summer-meeting/Political issues aside, Jesuits like Rev. Martin seem to get a certain level of celebrity status, and that doesn't always endear the S.J.'s to the diocesan priests or the religious orders that aren't allowed to go on TV or write books. Gone are the days, of course, when Jesuits ran for Congress, but Martin is one the last Jesuits to have a visibly public persona. I miss Father Drinan.
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Sept 17, 2021 14:17:32 GMT -5
On Saturday, Poe’s team will be one of 12 making pitches for $100,000 grants in a contest modeled after the popular reality show, in which entrepreneurs go before successful businesspeople and lay out their innovations and business plans in hopes of receiving money and guidance. This version, called the OSV Challenge, will be live-streamed. More Hollywood and Wall Street than St. Peter’s Square, it is an effort to inject some start-up culture into an ancient religious organization that has lost more members than any other U.S. faith group. www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2021/09/17/shark-tank-catholic-competition-pope-francis-our-sunday-visitor/
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Sept 17, 2021 21:27:55 GMT -5
I'm all for Jesuits getting attention. I'd much prefer an order that champions education in conjunction with their faith getting some coverage as opposed to charlatans like Joel Osteen and his ilk. While I'm not a person of faith, generally speaking, I have nothing but respect for the Jesuits and my time at Georgetown only strengthened that respect and made it more personal.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 17, 2021 22:05:58 GMT -5
On Saturday, Poe’s team will be one of 12 making pitches for $100,000 grants in a contest modeled after the popular reality show, in which entrepreneurs go before successful businesspeople and lay out their innovations and business plans in hopes of receiving money and guidance. This version, called the OSV Challenge, will be live-streamed. More Hollywood and Wall Street than St. Peter’s Square, it is an effort to inject some start-up culture into an ancient religious organization that has lost more members than any other U.S. faith group. www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2021/09/17/shark-tank-catholic-competition-pope-francis-our-sunday-visitor/It's articles like this that feed the perception that as far as the religion beat goes, too many writers follow the adage that the NY Times once freely admitted: they don't understand Catholics.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Sept 19, 2021 8:32:15 GMT -5
For most people, words like innovation and creativity probably spark images of scrappy programmers toiling in a Silicon Valley garage, artists establishing new boundaries or scientists pioneering tomorrow’s unimaginable discoveries. The words are less likely to bring to mind people laboring on the front lines of the Catholic Church. But for participants at the OSV Innovation Challenge’s virtual Demo Day this past Saturday, innovation and creativity are defining characteristics of what it means to be Catholic. www.americamagazine.org/faith/2020/08/31/catholic-shark-tank-innovation-osv-challenge
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Sept 19, 2021 14:26:25 GMT -5
LINCOLN, Neb. — The members of St. Francis of Assisi Catholic Church have been on edge for weeks, worried that their way of worship is under threat, and what makes their fears especially agonizing is the identity of the person leading the crackdown: Pope Francis. www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/17/latin-mass-pope-francis/
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 19, 2021 17:30:36 GMT -5
LINCOLN, Neb. — The members of St. Francis of Assisi Catholic Church have been on edge for weeks, worried that their way of worship is under threat, and what makes their fears especially agonizing is the identity of the person leading the crackdown: Pope Francis. www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/17/latin-mass-pope-francis/The article really misses a bigger and more interesting topic than some parish in Nebraska. There is friction in the workings of the Church that the younger generation is more likely to embrace the traditions which fell out of favor with Vatican II. This is not lost on Pope Francis, he of the Jesuit order that is often seen as more eager to be seen as modern (e.g., when was the last time you saw a Jesuit wear a cassock, much less a biretta?) There are bigger issues to deal with, but some get more attention than others. Putting the kibosh on the Tridentine Mass may be seen as a sign that he does not want the appearance that Vatican II is being further eroded under his watch, compared to Benedict XVI, who once wrote that supporting Vatican II "did not require the abandonment of traditional principles." Maybe these subjects are far too internecine for an 800 word article, and instead finding a rural family that seems Amish by comparison makes for more lively reading to a secular audience. But it's an opportunity missed.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Feb 14, 2022 10:48:10 GMT -5
a) wish this kind of investagitive furvor and transparency were applied by the Church to wrongs other than one word differences in baptismal scripts (quite honestly, "we" sounds better anyway) b) this seems like a BS pretext to get rid of a Pastor you're mad at for some other reason c) this is possibly the dumbest thing I've read this year
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 14, 2022 11:42:02 GMT -5
a) wish this kind of investagitive furvor and transparency were applied by the Church to wrongs other than one word differences in baptismal scripts (quite honestly, "we" sounds better anyway) b) this seems like a BS pretext to get rid of a Pastor you're mad at for some other reason c) this is possibly the dumbest thing I've read this year Not surprised this comes from the NY Times, which has a long running strain of Catholic bashing in its pages. Catholics are one of the four groups its own public editor wrote the Times has an institutional bias against and these same issues come up in other denominations without any public comment from that newspaper. Rubrics are important from a Church perspective and any priest, much less pastor who does not understand this probably shouldn't be in a leadership position to begin with. This was not a point of emphasis in post-Vatican II, where a priest could change up prayers on the fly or use pita bread as communion, but that's not the case now. As a global organization, a premium is placed on universality, so that someone baptized in Detroit or Manila or a rural village in Africa does so under the same principles beholden to a sacrament, which is what it is. The words of Baptism are very specific across mainline Christianity which is why, even for converts, the Church recognizes baptism from most Protestant churches as legitimate, but not Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, or sects that believe anyone can baptize anyone, with no particular form or wording required, or those who really go off script and baptize without the use of the Trinity or in the name of the father and of the mother, or the community, or nature, etc. Because baptism is the sole means of salvation to many Christian denominations, there's a lot of talk about what it means or does not mean, and what baptism means to someone who is not in that church. "I was not brought up Jewish in any religious way," said Billy Joel a number of years ago. "I used to go to a Roman Catholic church with my friends, and when I was 11, I got baptized in a Church of Christ in Hicksville." He doesn't practice any faith but is he saved as a result? That's an argument for theologians, which is why these things are taken seriously in ecclesiastical quarters.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,450
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Post by TC on Feb 14, 2022 12:58:32 GMT -5
a) wish this kind of investagitive furvor and transparency were applied by the Church to wrongs other than one word differences in baptismal scripts (quite honestly, "we" sounds better anyway) b) this seems like a BS pretext to get rid of a Pastor you're mad at for some other reason c) this is possibly the dumbest thing I've read this year Not surprised this comes from the NY Times, which has a long running strain of Catholic bashing in its pages. Catholics are one of the four groups its own public editor wrote the Times has an institutional bias against and these same issues come up in other denominations without any public comment from that newspaper. Rubrics are important from a Church perspective and any priest, much less pastor who does not understand this probably shouldn't be in a leadership position to begin with. This was not a point of emphasis in post-Vatican II, where a priest could change up prayers on the fly or use pita bread as communion, but that's not the case now. As a global organization, a premium is placed on universality, so that someone baptized in Detroit or Manila or a rural village in Africa does so under the same principles beholden to a sacrament, which is what it is. The words of Baptism are very specific across mainline Christianity which is why, even for converts, the Church recognizes baptism from most Protestant churches as legitimate, but not Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, or sects that believe anyone can baptize anyone, with no particular form or wording required, or those who really go off script and baptize without the use of the Trinity or in the name of the father and of the mother, or the community, or nature, etc. Because baptism is the sole means of salvation to many Christian denominations, there's a lot of talk about what it means or does not mean, and what baptism means to someone who is not in that church. "I was not brought up Jewish in any religious way," said Billy Joel a number of years ago. "I used to go to a Roman Catholic church with my friends, and when I was 11, I got baptized in a Church of Christ in Hicksville." He doesn't practice any faith but is he saved as a result? That's an argument for theologians, which is why these things are taken seriously in ecclesiastical quarters. Same story is in Newsweek and Arizona Central - would you prefer it from one of those sources? If I posted if from the Boston Globe, are they too anti-Catholic because of the Spotlight investigations? Attacking the messenger doesn't change the facts of the story whatsoever. Not sure why you would want to invalidate a bunch of sacraments and a whole community's collective faith experiences (the Bishop says this not only invalidates baptisms, but confirmations, marriages, and Holy Orders that were piggybacked on top of an "invalid" baptism) AND make the argument that a community doesn't have agency or real participation within baptism. This is a really silly hill to die on, but I guess if you're a Bishop on a power trip... I'm sure there's some story here why this conservative Bishop would want to do this to that Parish, and I'm sure it has nothing to do with that one "We/I" change.
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hoya73
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoya73 on Feb 14, 2022 14:24:09 GMT -5
a) wish this kind of investagitive furvor and transparency were applied by the Church to wrongs other than one word differences in baptismal scripts (quite honestly, "we" sounds better anyway) b) this seems like a BS pretext to get rid of a Pastor you're mad at for some other reason c) this is possibly the dumbest thing I've read this year Not surprised this comes from the NY Times, which has a long running strain of Catholic bashing in its pages. Catholics are one of the four groups its own public editor wrote the Times has an institutional bias against and these same issues come up in other denominations without any public comment from that newspaper. Rubrics are important from a Church perspective and any priest, much less pastor who does not understand this probably shouldn't be in a leadership position to begin with. This was not a point of emphasis in post-Vatican II, where a priest could change up prayers on the fly or use pita bread as communion, but that's not the case now. As a global organization, a premium is placed on universality, so that someone baptized in Detroit or Manila or a rural village in Africa does so under the same principles beholden to a sacrament, which is what it is. The words of Baptism are very specific across mainline Christianity which is why, even for converts, the Church recognizes baptism from most Protestant churches as legitimate, but not Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, or sects that believe anyone can baptize anyone, with no particular form or wording required, or those who really go off script and baptize without the use of the Trinity or in the name of the father and of the mother, or the community, or nature, etc. Because baptism is the sole means of salvation to many Christian denominations, there's a lot of talk about what it means or does not mean, and what baptism means to someone who is not in that church. "I was not brought up Jewish in any religious way," said Billy Joel a number of years ago. "I used to go to a Roman Catholic church with my friends, and when I was 11, I got baptized in a Church of Christ in Hicksville." He doesn't practice any faith but is he saved as a result? That's an argument for theologians, which is why these things are taken seriously in ecclesiastical quarters. Piano Man alone has earned Billy Joel a place in Hades.
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ksf42001
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 901
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Post by ksf42001 on Feb 15, 2022 11:31:18 GMT -5
a) wish this kind of investagitive furvor and transparency were applied by the Church to wrongs other than one word differences in baptismal scripts (quite honestly, "we" sounds better anyway) b) this seems like a BS pretext to get rid of a Pastor you're mad at for some other reason c) this is possibly the dumbest thing I've read this year Question from a non-Catholic: 1. Do these people need to be re-baptized? 2. If yes, what happens if they don't or have already died between then and now?
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