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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jan 28, 2021 11:59:48 GMT -5
How dare you. Basic Catholic teaching, stretching many centuries, is being defended against an increasingly hard left intent on transforming the Church into one not recognizable to the many, many popes preceding Pope Francis. The current holder of the office of the presidency publicly and strongly advocates for positions diametrically opposed to Catholic doctrine as outlined in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Besides abortion, what teachings are the Left/Biden strongly advocating for that go against church teaching? Genuine question.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 28, 2021 13:22:39 GMT -5
How dare I do what? I posted E.J. Dionne's opinion column. Am I somehow barred from doing so? Especially curious is that I expressed no opinion one way or the other on Mr. Dionne's opinion. ? I don't believe you would have quoted Dionne's piece if you were not expressing some agreement. Were you? If not I apologize. Thank you, Ed. Your post absent the "how dare you" was perfectly fine as an expression of your opinion. As I have mentioned before I am not Catholic. My primary religious tradition has been the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod (LCMS) which is quite conservative. A heretical Lutheran upbringing! 😁 I linked Mr. Dionne's opinion piece to generate some discussion if nothing else.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 28, 2021 14:11:03 GMT -5
Members of the Catholic Church hierarchy made grave mistakes in covering up the sexual abuse scandals and should be condemned for that. The Church has instituted procedures to minimize the likelihood of that happening again. Will it be successful over the long haul? I think so but only time will tell. Meanwhile the rank and file Catholics were not involved in the scandals and continued attempting to live their religion. It is wrong to condemn the entire Catholic Church for the gross misdeeds of some; just as it would be wrong to condemn the entire United States for the wrongs of Trump and his associates. You take every opportunity to show your disdain for Catholicism and you show no degree of tolerance of those that do not share your views. Your remarks about the Catholic Church are insulting to me. Anyone who stuck with those criminals during and after this scandal has voted that they don’t care about child abuse and that obviously includes you. Walking away from an organization that allowed and covered up child abuse for so long should be a pretty easy call.
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hoopsmccan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoopsmccan on Jan 28, 2021 15:01:15 GMT -5
Members of the Catholic Church hierarchy made grave mistakes in covering up the sexual abuse scandals and should be condemned for that. The Church has instituted procedures to minimize the likelihood of that happening again. Will it be successful over the long haul? I think so but only time will tell. Meanwhile the rank and file Catholics were not involved in the scandals and continued attempting to live their religion. It is wrong to condemn the entire Catholic Church for the gross misdeeds of some; just as it would be wrong to condemn the entire United States for the wrongs of Trump and his associates. You take every opportunity to show your disdain for Catholicism and you show no degree of tolerance of those that do not share your views. Your remarks about the Catholic Church are insulting to me. Anyone who stuck with those criminals during and after this scandal has voted that they don’t care about child abuse and that obviously includes you. Walking away from an organization that allowed and covered up child abuse for so long should be a pretty easy call. I guess your consistent at least...your thoughtless, simplistic, petulant postings extend past your Ewing fixation. Pretty embarrassing. hm
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 28, 2021 15:08:16 GMT -5
Anyone who stuck with those criminals during and after this scandal has voted that they don’t care about child abuse and that obviously includes you. Walking away from an organization that allowed and covered up child abuse for so long should be a pretty easy call. I guess your consistent at least...your thoughtless, simplistic, petulant postings extend past your Ewing fixation. Pretty embarrassing. hm I happen to be on the right side of both of these. They may be unpopular here but I don’t care.
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hoyajinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyajinx on Jan 28, 2021 15:12:13 GMT -5
How dare you. Basic Catholic teaching, stretching many centuries, is being defended against an increasingly hard left intent on transforming the Church into one not recognizable to the many, many popes preceding Pope Francis. The current holder of the office of the presidency publicly and strongly advocates for positions diametrically opposed to Catholic doctrine as outlined in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Besides abortion, what teachings are the Left/Biden strongly advocating for that go against church teaching? Genuine question. As an additional question, aside from the previous administration’s anti-abortion stance and anti-LGBTQ agenda (which is arguably antithetical to Jesus’s teachings) what did it advocate that was in line with church teaching? Certainly not prioritizing the economy over American lives or it’s terrible treatment of migrant families and children. I’m having difficulty seeing how the previous administration is in any way less at odds with Christian dogma than the current one. Unless, of course, Jesus was a huge fan a tax breaks for the rich and huge corporations.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 28, 2021 15:19:16 GMT -5
Besides abortion, what teachings are the Left/Biden strongly advocating for that go against church teaching? Genuine question. As an additional question, aside from the previous administration’s anti-abortion stance and anti-LGBTQ agenda (which is arguably antithetical to Jesus’s teachings) what did it advocate that was in line with church teaching? Certainly not prioritizing the economy over American lives or it’s terrible treatment of migrant families and children. I’m having difficulty seeing how the previous administration is in any way less at odds with Christian dogma than the current one. Unless, of course, Jesus was a huge fan a tax breaks for the rich and huge corporations. Not to mention AG Barr's grotesque death penalty campaign to execute as many prisoners as possible before Inauguration Day - not exactly following the "consistent life ethic" I've seen espoused by the Catholic Church even prior to Pope Francis.
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hoopsmccan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoopsmccan on Jan 28, 2021 15:40:36 GMT -5
I guess your consistent at least...your thoughtless, simplistic, petulant postings extend past your Ewing fixation. Pretty embarrassing. hm I happen to be on the right side of both of these. They may be unpopular here but I don’t care. It is hard to fathom that there is an issue that you don't think you are 100% right on. You have the mentality of a little child. Everything is black or white...no room for gray, for nuance. And when you think something, man, EVERYONE. MUST. HEAR. IT. Over and over. "I don't care". Thankfully, my 10yr old grew out of this stage some years ago...it was frustrating. hm
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 28, 2021 16:00:43 GMT -5
I happen to be on the right side of both of these. They may be unpopular here but I don’t care. It is hard to fathom that there is an issue that you don't think you are 100% right on. You have the mentality of a little child. Everything is black or white...no room for gray, for nuance. And when you think something, man, EVERYONE. MUST. HEAR. IT. Over and over. "I don't care". Thankfully, my 10yr old grew out of this stage some years ago...it was frustrating. hm That is not true. I'm well aware of what I don't know and of all the gray area in the world. As for my repeating my views, this is a message board and that's what happens. I'm certainly not going to apologize for expressing my opinion in a forum like this.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Jan 28, 2021 16:57:47 GMT -5
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 28, 2021 18:40:54 GMT -5
One shouldn't have to fact check a Catholic publication, but here goes. This story contains a number of outright falsehoods, including: 1. "The informal Mass in the auto shop is necessary, parishioner Karen James told NCR, because "people have no alternative," as the nearest Catholic parish is at least 45 minutes' to an hour's drive away." A check at Masstimes.org indicates another parish is just seven miles away, and a third 18 miles away. 2. "While Pope Francis preaches an accompaniment for all spiritual seekers and castigates clericalism...It is a quiet, awkward and uneasy kind of schism in church practice and discipline." NCR's problem is the Tridentine (Latin) Mass. Somewhat suppressed since 1962, since 2007 it is acceptable with permission of the local episcopate (bishop). In fact, of the parish's four Sunday Masses, two are in English, one Spanish, one Latin. This is chasing people into Protestantism? 3. "Today's seminarians, said Schuth, are part of an overall generational cohort that is more likely to be liberal and secular. These conservative seminarians are set apart in many ways from their peers." Actually, seminarians and priests tend to be more doctrinally conservative, not liberal, and especially those from Africa. 4. "Codd, now pastor at St. Thomas Aquinas Church in Charlotte, has asked that all who were baptized in his church in recent years be rebaptized because the proper Vatican mandated formula — the preferred saying is "I baptize" — was not used. Previously a deacon in the parish might have used a formula that began "we baptize." NCR is underselling the idea of a "preferred saying". It's not a matter of preference. The Vatican has publicly stated that using "we" is not an approved form of the rite of baptism and the word "I" is appropriate. 5. "It's a small number, but they are not insignificant because they tend to be active," she said of today's more tradition-minded seminarians. They immerse themselves in conservative Catholic media sites such as EWTN, Life Site News and Church Militant." Well, here's the beef of the article...EWTN. National Catholic Reporter and EWTN do not play well with each other and anything the other does is likely to get the same response as a CNN missive on Fox News. EWTN has four times the daily readers/viewers than National Catholic Reporter and bought the similar sounding National Catholic Register. As for Church Militant, which is much more Newsmax for the religious set than Church reporting, with headlines like "Can We Fight the Deep State, the Hive Mind, That Rules Us?" and "Why Did God Allow Biden-Harris to Prevail?", it has nearly as many social media followers as National Catholic Reporter does. Long story short, NCR published a misleading article and has already removed two paragraphs from the online article due to what it called "mistaken crediting information." It's fighting an uphill battle as as a liberal voice pining for the days of Paul VI, the Berrigan brothers, and the folk Mass trappings of Vatican II. NCR's own editor writes that "[our readers] are the gray-haired old-timers at church reform organizations and parishes....They are the retired priests, sisters and even some bishops who have spent their lives working for social justice. They are Women's March marchers, Green New Deal supporters and Black Lives Matter protesters across generations. They are you: NCR's longtime subscribers..." And just as EWTN waxes a little too much on the daily novenas, NCR is living in the 1960's.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 28, 2021 19:37:27 GMT -5
How dare you. Basic Catholic teaching, stretching many centuries, is being defended against an increasingly hard left intent on transforming the Church into one not recognizable to the many, many popes preceding Pope Francis. The current holder of the office of the presidency publicly and strongly advocates for positions diametrically opposed to Catholic doctrine as outlined in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Besides abortion, what teachings are the Left/Biden strongly advocating for that go against church teaching? Genuine question. Same sex marriage and sex, gender identity, religious freedom, to name a few.
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hoyajinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,348
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Post by hoyajinx on Jan 28, 2021 20:00:08 GMT -5
Besides abortion, what teachings are the Left/Biden strongly advocating for that go against church teaching? Genuine question. Same sex marriage and sex, gender identity, religious freedom, to name a few. How do those things affect you in any way? It works for the benefit and well-being to those involved and victimizes exactly zero people other than those who want to impose their morality on others. Why do you care if someone identifies as another gender or marries someone of the same sex except that it offends your sensibilities? I will literally never understand this point of view. At least when someone identifies as pro-life, they can say that the unborn baby is the victim. What you list is unlike that in every conceivable way. Why do you care? And you have a problem with religious freedom? That’s just confusing. Are you saying everyone should be Catholic or at the very least Christian?
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jan 28, 2021 20:20:02 GMT -5
Same sex marriage and sex, gender identity, religious freedom, to name a few. How do those things affect you in any way? It works for the benefit and well-being to those involved and victimizes exactly zero people other than those who want to impose their morality on others. Why do you care if someone identifies as another gender or marries someone of the same sex except that it offends your sensibilities? I will literally never understand this point of view. At least when someone identifies as pro-life, they can say that the unborn baby is the victim. What you list is unlike that in every conceivable way. Why do you care? And you have a problem with religious freedom? That’s just confusing. Are you saying everyone should be Catholic or at the very least Christian? I think he's implying the left are against religious freedom and want all religion abolished and replaced with secularism.
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hoyajinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyajinx on Jan 28, 2021 20:39:18 GMT -5
How do those things affect you in any way? It works for the benefit and well-being to those involved and victimizes exactly zero people other than those who want to impose their morality on others. Why do you care if someone identifies as another gender or marries someone of the same sex except that it offends your sensibilities? I will literally never understand this point of view. At least when someone identifies as pro-life, they can say that the unborn baby is the victim. What you list is unlike that in every conceivable way. Why do you care? And you have a problem with religious freedom? That’s just confusing. Are you saying everyone should be Catholic or at the very least Christian? I think he's implying the left are against religious freedom and want all religion abolished and replaced with secularism. Gotcha. Thanks. The question asked what they were advocating and he answered with “religious freedom”, which was moderately confusing. If that’s what he’s implying, that’s almost as nonsensical as what I thought he meant.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 28, 2021 20:42:52 GMT -5
I think he's implying the left are against religious freedom and want all religion abolished and replaced with secularism. Gotcha. Thanks. The question asked what they were advocating and he answered with “religious freedom”, which was moderately confusing. If that’s what he’s implying, that’s almost as nonsensical as what I thought he meant. It’s really tough to be a Christian in America.
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Post by badgerhoya on Jan 28, 2021 22:01:57 GMT -5
I guess your consistent at least...your thoughtless, simplistic, petulant postings extend past your Ewing fixation. Pretty embarrassing. hm I happen to be on the right side of both of these. They may be unpopular here but I don’t care. Humble as well.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 29, 2021 10:37:51 GMT -5
Same sex marriage and sex, gender identity, religious freedom, to name a few. How do those things affect you in any way? It works for the benefit and well-being to those involved and victimizes exactly zero people other than those who want to impose their morality on others. Why do you care if someone identifies as another gender or marries someone of the same sex except that it offends your sensibilities? I will literally never understand this point of view. At least when someone identifies as pro-life, they can say that the unborn baby is the victim. What you list is unlike that in every conceivable way. Why do you care? And you have a problem with religious freedom? That’s just confusing. Are you saying everyone should be Catholic or at the very least Christian? HSB asked a question and I attempted to answer it. No more, no less.
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hoyajinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,348
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Post by hoyajinx on Jan 29, 2021 11:09:35 GMT -5
How do those things affect you in any way? It works for the benefit and well-being to those involved and victimizes exactly zero people other than those who want to impose their morality on others. Why do you care if someone identifies as another gender or marries someone of the same sex except that it offends your sensibilities? I will literally never understand this point of view. At least when someone identifies as pro-life, they can say that the unborn baby is the victim. What you list is unlike that in every conceivable way. Why do you care? And you have a problem with religious freedom? That’s just confusing. Are you saying everyone should be Catholic or at the very least Christian? HSB asked a question and I attempted to answer it. No more, no less. I understand that, but I was interested in WHY you had a problem with things that appear to affect no one other than those involved in making those personal decisions. Is it simply because they offend traditional Christian sensibilities? Or do they actually affect you in some other way that I don’t see?
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Jan 29, 2021 11:11:37 GMT -5
2. "While Pope Francis preaches an accompaniment for all spiritual seekers and castigates clericalism...It is a quiet, awkward and uneasy kind of schism in church practice and discipline." NCR's problem is the Tridentine (Latin) Mass. Somewhat suppressed since 1962, since 2007 it is acceptable with permission of the local episcopate (bishop). In fact, of the parish's four Sunday Masses, two are in English, one Spanish, one Latin. This is chasing people into Protestantism? Yes. Look at the weekly mass schedule, there's only one during the week that's an English mass, there are three that are Latin. No one speaks Latin. You might not accept what's going on here and explain it away by cherry picking quotes that you don't agree with, but killing Vatican II, bringing back symbols from the 1500's - trads are not a big tent movement in the Church, and yes, they are driving people away. Giving people different options is great, removing their involvement from the parish by deemphasizing the role of women, demonizing LGBT congregants, and deemphasizing the role and influence of laypeople through parish council and service definitely chases people away. I'd even go so far as to say that Ed made the point that the Church has tried to make reforms to counter the child molestation scandals - and deemphasizing the role of laypeople is directly antithetical to every one of those reforms. Church Militant is a pure hate site, not "Newsmax". If you want to why fascism is gaining acceptance in the US and how the Catholic Church is helping drive it, look no further than the trad movement.
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