idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Mar 25, 2012 19:52:47 GMT -5
right ed.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Mar 25, 2012 19:53:01 GMT -5
Did Roy Williams get fired yet?
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 25, 2012 20:23:42 GMT -5
Hopefully JT3 is seeing that playing a lot of guys earlier in the game and the season is critical, because the way NCAA tourney games are reffed, your 8th and 9th guys need to be used to playing a lot of minutes and use to having to produce. We need to develop a longer bench.NCAA refs call everything and sometimes things that aren't there. I think I saw more off the ball fouls in the Elite Eight than I saw called in the BE all season. Great point...we definitely saw Hopkins at points throughout the regular season but we definitely called upon him for various reasons through NCAA play. A longer rotation (I think we can run 10 deep next year easily, even w/o Noel) will also help players keep up a higher level of energy while they are in the game. Obviously critical situations should be left to the best 5 but close games are learning experiences too.
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dense
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Post by dense on Mar 25, 2012 21:01:10 GMT -5
Hopefully JT3 is seeing that playing a lot of guys earlier in the game and the season is critical, because the way NCAA tourney games are reffed, your 8th and 9th guys need to be used to playing a lot of minutes and use to having to produce. We need to develop a longer bench.NCAA refs call everything and sometimes things that aren't there. I think I saw more off the ball fouls in the Elite Eight than I saw called in the BE all season. Actually, I think the key is to not have your stud PG, who averages 10 assists a game, break his wrist. I wasn't talking about just the UNC game. I meant in all 4 of those games, the refs played a big role in them in terms of everyone had severe foul trouble.
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dense
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Post by dense on Mar 25, 2012 21:06:23 GMT -5
To be fair III had a rotation of nine in the majority of games this season. true, but a lot of the games down the stretch Trawick and Hopkins got spot minutes in the 1st half. I'm getting at playing them for some minutes in the 2nd half, even at the detriment of losing a game here or there. I just want to get the back-up 5man more minutes so they are used to making those decisions since the post has just a huge role in any "princeton"-like system. Then I'm just putting that out to all spots.
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Mar 25, 2012 21:11:31 GMT -5
To be fair III had a rotation of nine in the majority of games this season. true, but a lot of the games down the stretch Trawick and Hopkins got spot minutes in the 1st half. I'm getting at playing them for some minutes in the 2nd half, even at the detriment of losing a game here or there. I just want to get the back-up 5man more minutes so they are used to making those decisions since the post has just a huge role in any "princeton"-like system. Then I'm just putting that out to all spots. See that's the thing....I don't think III or anyone else for that matter is willing to make this sacrifice. III has to win games, for himself, for the program, for fans, for seeding for the tournament. I think he did a fair enough job trying to fit young guys into the flow of the game without making too much of a trade off but sometimes I was yelling at my TV to get the youngsters out of the game when they were squandering it away.
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dense
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Post by dense on Mar 25, 2012 21:39:49 GMT -5
true, but a lot of the games down the stretch Trawick and Hopkins got spot minutes in the 1st half. I'm getting at playing them for some minutes in the 2nd half, even at the detriment of losing a game here or there. I just want to get the back-up 5man more minutes so they are used to making those decisions since the post has just a huge role in any "princeton"-like system. Then I'm just putting that out to all spots. See that's the thing....I don't think III or anyone else for that matter is willing to make this sacrifice. III has to win games, for himself, for the program, for fans, for seeding for the tournament. I think he did a fair enough job trying to fit young guys into the flow of the game without making too much of a trade off but sometimes I was yelling at my TV to get the youngsters out of the game when they were squandering it away. Oh, I know its a hard pill to swallow. There were games in the BE season where he did play them because they were doing the job. Marquette, Rutgers and St. John's to name a few. I just think when you play the way we do. the back up 5 guy needs to be able to run the offense at a level in the same realm of the starter. Hopkins seemed to know where to be, but not always confident enough to go lemme take this guy here or lemme pass out and repost for better position. That was the case on a lot of his charges cause he was to anxious and tried to face up a defender from too far out when he received it in the post. But I see your point completely and know that many people would not be for it. I just think the way NCAA tourney games are reffed are so different from the regular season it's ridiculous. Even the ACC allows more contact than what we saw called the last two days. I just think for next year be it Tyler or Moses or whoever is running the 5man needs to be used to playing a lot of minutes and making those decisions rather than having a starter play 37 minutes in a NON-conference game in November just to get a W.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Mar 25, 2012 21:52:54 GMT -5
Hopkins at times seemed to play small for a 6'9 kid, if that makes any sense. I guess that's where the confidence comes in.
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KirbyKeger
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Post by KirbyKeger on Mar 25, 2012 21:55:59 GMT -5
One thing I like about Hopkins, though, is he never seemed scared to back anyone down and try a post move, regardless of who his matchup was. Also, he has great touch around the basket. I think he could be really good as early as next season.
Gotta love how the Non-Hoyas thread has turned into an in-depth analysis of the program as a whole. Thank God for that.
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 25, 2012 22:33:31 GMT -5
Hopkins at times seemed to play small for a 6'9 kid, if that makes any sense. I guess that's where the confidence comes in. Henry seemed like this his first 3 years, and maybe it is a result of confidence? That said, wouldn't Dense's suggestion help...a FR would have more confidence when he played more and thus play better. Would you rather have a player thinking that they aren't good enough this year so they have to wait or a player thinking that they just aren't playing because it isn't their turn but they're plenty good enough EDIT: further on what dense is saying...who wouldn't take a loss or two in the regular season to gain a win or two in the post season. We could have lost one more game and still been in 5th in the BET. Our seeding would have been down a couple but every game in the NCAAs is difficult.
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Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Mar 25, 2012 22:40:19 GMT -5
Seeing how Kansas is at Final Four kinda depresses me - we coulda so been there. O well, better luck next year!
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 26, 2012 9:15:13 GMT -5
Hopkins at times seemed to play small for a 6'9 kid, if that makes any sense. I guess that's where the confidence comes in. Henry seemed like this his first 3 years, and maybe it is a result of confidence? That said, wouldn't Dense's suggestion help...a FR would have more confidence when he played more and thus play better. Would you rather have a player thinking that they aren't good enough this year so they have to wait or a player thinking that they just aren't playing because it isn't their turn but they're plenty good enough EDIT: further on what dense is saying...who wouldn't take a loss or two in the regular season to gain a win or two in the post season. We could have lost one more game and still been in 5th in the BET. Our seeding would have been down a couple but every game in the NCAAs is difficult. I don't think Hopkins lacked for confidence at all. He was decisive around the basket, and I remember him trying to throw down a couple of nasty dunks -- something sorely lacking for this team. I think there's a difference between being tentative as a frosh running this offense and lacking confidence.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 26, 2012 10:41:45 GMT -5
I don't think the short bench in the 2nd half was only about the offense. Sims-Porter-Whittington-Thompson-Clark was also the best defense and rebounding lineup.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 26, 2012 10:44:59 GMT -5
Seeing how Kansas is at Final Four kinda depresses me - we coulda so been there. O well, better luck next year! True, but I think Louisville is the better analogue for us. There really is nothing about them that we couldnt have accomplished in this tourney. They even played far away from home, so you cant say they benefitted from home-cooking, etc. Seeing Lville make the Final Four still gives me hope that you can just play a style and play it effectively. You dont need superstars. Give credit to Pitino. Great job with that team.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Mar 26, 2012 11:05:08 GMT -5
Seeing how Kansas is at Final Four kinda depresses me - we coulda so been there. O well, better luck next year! True, but I think Louisville is the better analogue for us. There really is nothing about them that we couldnt have accomplished in this tourney. They even played far away from home, so you cant say they benefitted from home-cooking, etc. Seeing Lville make the Final Four still gives me hope that you can just play a style and play it effectively. You dont need superstars. Give credit to Pitino. Great job with that team. That's not entirely true though. Pitino basically changed a lot of what they did offensively after getting his head handed to him last Month of Big East. Said they've got to play faster--and while they aren't a scoring juggernaut, they have increased their field goal attempts and given more players offensive freedom--Chane Behanan's 3pt shot is what turned around the Elite 8 game and he wouldn't have had confidence to take that during season because Pitino was being far too rigid. Pitino adapted to personnel and told them--be more aggressive/attack on offense and changed his defense to gameplan for opponents--for instance--he didn't trap Michigan State because he didn't want to leave their 3pt shooters open and wanted their smaller/unathletic frontline to have to drive/score over Dieng-which didn't work and completely cut their offense off-as they rely on drive/draw/kick--from Green as much as anyone--and he hits the trail 3pt shot--and this was taken away for most part from lack of gambling. He increased his rotation as well--Swopshire--a kid he's already told will be let out of his scholarship/free to go elsewhere after this season for his SR season-is playing and was key player in Michigan State win--hit 2 three pointers and he's used several players depending who the matchup is. Good example of this paying off--the Florida game. If he kept operating like he was-they could never win that type of game--because their offense wouldn't have had confidence to comeback without Siva in the game-all the offense would've gone through Russell Smith/Kyle Kuric--and instead they ran offense through Behanan to get back into the game. You've got to adapt to what your team can do and scrap the things you might prefer but they aren't doing well. It's been a brilliant coaching job by Pitino and while he's got talent--they were dead in water going into BET-but he said he knew what needed to be done/changed and did it--and look where they are now.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 26, 2012 12:02:06 GMT -5
I can't help but smile reading the syracusefan.com board, not only because of the total meltdown by most of the posters, but particularly the posts that not only blame their loss almost entirely on the refs, but even insist the NCAA had a conspiracy against SU "because of all the stuff that went on this year". Not sure how they explain the UNC-Asheville game that was saved by the zebras, but I guess logic is not a strong point if you wear orange.
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Post by nashvillehoyas on Mar 26, 2012 13:34:04 GMT -5
Louisville is evidence that in any given year most Big East teams can reach the Final Four.... Anticipating Louisville cutting down the strings. Go Big East!
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Mar 26, 2012 14:28:51 GMT -5
I can't help but smile reading the syracusefan.com board, not only because of the total meltdown by most of the posters, but particularly the posts that not only blame their loss almost entirely on the refs, but even insist the NCAA had a conspiracy against SU "because of all the stuff that went on this year". Not sure how they explain the UNC-Asheville game that was saved by the zebras, but I guess logic is not a strong point if you wear orange. Just throw the "Nothing distracts us" line that Boeheim used at BET. If that doesn't work--point out that they shouldn't care much because Boeheim doesn't care about the fact that an earthquake could kill them all as long as he/his team is ok. Refs don't win/lose games--the Cuse was without Melo and the fact the guy wouldn't color between the lines and threw away his crayons meant he couldn't be a student at Syracuse. (even they have standards-now if he was sniffing glue-he'd have been fine). Guess Sullinger missing entire 1st Half didn't hurt Ohio State. Guess fact his backup sat with 2 fouls and they used 3rd string Center Amir Williams for key stretch in half and he outplayed their frontline didn't matter. BTW--didn't Boeheim take a shot at Bo Ryan for sitting Berggren due to 2 fouls? He said he can trust his players to play with 2 fouls--so why would any foul trouble bother the unflappable one? Why did he get a T? Why did he act like a whining female dog all game? Why was his 30 year old PG sitting next to him at end of his last game in the wonderful 6 year career? Scoop was sad to leave the program--and who wouldn't--he played with Howard and Brandon Triche. Leo and Andy Rautins. Andre Hawkins and his doppelganger Fab Melo, and got to see Derrick Coleman's fat/uneducated ass follow the team like a groupie, and host Dajuan Coleman's fat/uneducated ass with Laurie Fine as their groupie. Throw in the fact he was with Cheddar Bob, and got to be coached by another fat ass Cuse player Lazarus Sims, along with the '80's Villian looking and racist Mike Hopkins, and Scranton's lovechild Gerry McNamara--and who could ask for more? BTW--didn't Boeheim use a smart ass comment to respond to UNC Ashville coach who mentioned "The better team today didn't win"? Did he not say "Look at the scoreboard"? Well I seem to recall a certain bald snot nosed punk coach saying "The Better team didn't win tonight" after losing the '84 BET Championship to Georgetown. Funny because that team only went onto win the National Title. Guess they weren't any good. ;D Good thing for Cuse fans-they can always follow Jimmy B's lead and just "forget" it all. He never remembers anything--you know when coaches rape people, drug use isn't reported, guys flunk tests, etc......so why should this hurt?
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 26, 2012 14:58:19 GMT -5
I don't think Hopkins lacked for confidence at all. He was decisive around the basket, and I remember him trying to throw down a couple of nasty dunks -- something sorely lacking for this team. I think there's a difference between being tentative as a frosh running this offense and lacking confidence. I also think that there is a difference between confidence scoring the ball (which is all these kids have been doing) and confidence in making the right choice with the ball. Not just choosing between shooting and passing but which pass to make, if they should dribble, etc. Also, I don't think there is much of a difference between being tentative and lacking confidence, especially when we are talking about freshman. If it was junior year Henry Sims, I would agree with you but for any freshman that is tentative, I attribute that to a lack of confidence. Finally, I also appreciated Hopkins' aggressiveness and decisiveness around the basket. As much as we all value the passing of our big men, I feel like when they get the ball on the low post they look to pass first then score. That doesn't work because to get a good shooting opportunity, a big man needs to make their move on the block before the defender can readjust.
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 26, 2012 15:22:17 GMT -5
I don't think the short bench in the 2nd half was only about the offense. Sims-Porter-Whittington-Thompson-Clark was also the best defense and rebounding lineup. Thats true but wouldn't it also benefit our defense if some of our backup players were out there when we HAD to make a stop? Would you rather have them defend but let up a basket and think "oh well, I'm only a FR, I'll get that stop next year". Personally, I'd rather have them thinking "ok gotta make a stop now", then be disappointed or affirmed with the result at the end of the play. Either way, its college basketball, there aren't 10 stars on the court at the time. There are 13? scholarship players and they are recruited to play. Yes practice is where it all happens but in-game situations require development too.
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