Air Jordan
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As the Hoyas continue their full court press the Kentucky Wildcats have went scoreless
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Post by Air Jordan on Mar 3, 2012 17:15:04 GMT -5
I hope JTIII is shaking bushes and turning over man-hole covers, because if pressing us makes our boys look this bad, we need a PG in the worse way. I know we all want taller guys and front court players, but what good are they if we cant get the ball down the court on a consistent basis. I hope he pulls something out of his sleeve, real soon like. Because next year we have 3 guards on this team and thats including DSR.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 3, 2012 17:24:51 GMT -5
I hope JTIII is shaking bushes and turning over man-hole covers, because if pressing us makes our boys look this bad, we need a PG in the worse way. It doesn't normally, but it certainly did today. I can't remember a game this year where our ball handlers looked so poor. I know we all want taller guys and front court players, but what good are they if we cant get the ball down the court on a consistent basis. I hope he pulls something out of his sleeve, real soon like. Because next year we have 3 guards on this team and thats including DSR. Don't count out Bowen. And Whit's going to play some 2. We can use ball handling, though.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 3, 2012 17:33:00 GMT -5
I hope JTIII is shaking bushes and turning over man-hole covers, because if pressing us makes our boys look this bad, we need a PG in the worse way. I know we all want taller guys and front court players, but what good are they if we cant get the ball down the court on a consistent basis. I hope he pulls something out of his sleeve, real soon like. Because next year we have 3 guards on this team and thats including DSR. Overreact much?
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Air Jordan
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
As the Hoyas continue their full court press the Kentucky Wildcats have went scoreless
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Post by Air Jordan on Mar 3, 2012 19:13:04 GMT -5
No Im not over reacting Im just stating a fact, this team acted like this was the first time they have seen a press defense in their lives. Just dont get it, but I also get we dont have a primary ball handler
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Ottomatic
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Post by Ottomatic on Mar 3, 2012 19:34:58 GMT -5
What team couldnt use more ballhandlers? The problem is with "the system" JTIII employs (which i support 100%) requires a PG that can shoot the 3. This normally means a combo guard unfortunately.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Mar 3, 2012 21:49:29 GMT -5
What team couldnt use more ballhandlers? The problem is with "the system" JTIII employs (which i support 100%) requires a PG that can shoot the 3. This normally means a combo guard unfortunately. It's time to change "The System". People can ignore the weaknesses all they want but really how often does Georgetown even get to utilize their preferred offense? Most of the time they face zone-and have to play zone offense. I love the advantages it offers if you can use it--but when teams either press you or play zone--you have to be able to score with individual talent creating offense. This team doesn't have that. They have guys who need pattern/plays to create looks for them and that is too difficult to do for an entire season and against elite competition. To change or should I say tweak "The System"-get a traditional PG--with athleticism--i.e. quickness/speed, and value of the basketball. If he doesn't shoot it great--fine-that's one of III's strength as a coach--developing a guy's jumpshot-but the PG position is one spot that a player can impact the game without having to score--and seeing a quick guard be able to defend opposing guards would be a great thing. This is a very average year in BE and average guards have killed Georgetown. Starks is in over his head. He's just inadequate and provides nothing that team needs. He should be recruited over and DSR is combo that everyone wants for "The System", so you have that in place. I prefer a "system" where team SCORES and is capable of getting points in various ways--like the "crazy" notion of transition basketball where you can actually benefit from your defensive stops/forced turnovers instead of always having to get everything in halfcourt and struggling to break 60 damn pts a game.
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757hoyafan
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Post by 757hoyafan on Mar 3, 2012 21:51:37 GMT -5
I hope JTIII is shaking bushes and turning over man-hole covers, because if pressing us makes our boys look this bad, we need a PG in the worse way. I know we all want taller guys and front court players, but what good are they if we cant get the ball down the court on a consistent basis. I hope he pulls something out of his sleeve, real soon like. Because next year we have 3 guards on this team and thats including DSR. Overreact much? ............
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 3, 2012 23:32:53 GMT -5
Everybody's offense works when you have an unguardable point guard. We could definietly use better ballhandlers, but it isn't the offense's fault that we don't. How many guys like that are there? Every team has guards that commit bad turnovers at times.
The Georgetown/Princeton offense adapts to the strengths of the players. If you get guys who can beat defenders off the dribble without being completely out of control and are able to pass when the defense collapses on them, the offense is perfect for them. That is the basic play of the Princeton offense. If you have a versatile big man like Jeff Green who is unguardable and makes good decisions with the ball, you run the offense through him and the guards spot up or cut off the ball.
We don't need Villanova's "give it to the point guard and let him dribble off screens offense."
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 3, 2012 23:32:57 GMT -5
What team couldnt use more ballhandlers? The problem is with "the system" JTIII employs (which i support 100%) requires a PG that can shoot the 3. This normally means a combo guard unfortunately. It's time to change "The System". People can ignore the weaknesses all they want but really how often does Georgetown even get to utilize their preferred offense? Most of the time they face zone-and have to play zone offense. I love the advantages it offers if you can use it--but when teams either press you or play zone--you have to be able to score with individual talent creating offense. This team doesn't have that. They have guys who need pattern/plays to create looks for them and that is too difficult to do for an entire season and against elite competition. To change or should I say tweak "The System"-get a traditional PG--with athleticism--i.e. quickness/speed, and value of the basketball. If he doesn't shoot it great--fine-that's one of III's strength as a coach--developing a guy's jumpshot-but the PG position is one spot that a player can impact the game without having to score--and seeing a quick guard be able to defend opposing guards would be a great thing. This is a very average year in BE and average guards have killed Georgetown. Starks is in over his head. He's just inadequate and provides nothing that team needs. He should be recruited over and DSR is combo that everyone wants for "The System", so you have that in place. I prefer a "system" where team SCORES and is capable of getting points in various ways--like the "crazy" notion of transition basketball where you can actually benefit from your defensive stops/forced turnovers instead of always having to get everything in halfcourt and struggling to break 60 damn pts a game. My god, we lose ONE game and we need to recruit different players and change "the system" ( whatever the Edited that means). Get a grip people.
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Air Jordan
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
As the Hoyas continue their full court press the Kentucky Wildcats have went scoreless
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Post by Air Jordan on Mar 3, 2012 23:38:42 GMT -5
RDF, I'm with you man, I have seen this team get killed by bad to mediocre guard play, and today it was a simple press that took them down. Im over the ref thing, we acted like we never seen a press before. When I saw Clark retreating and then trying to throw the ball I was like oh no, its the deer in the head lights look. And yes Starks should be recruited over, no question about it, he will be a Junior next year, he looks as though this is his first ime playing basketball.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Mar 4, 2012 0:12:59 GMT -5
It's time to change "The System". People can ignore the weaknesses all they want but really how often does Georgetown even get to utilize their preferred offense? Most of the time they face zone-and have to play zone offense. I love the advantages it offers if you can use it--but when teams either press you or play zone--you have to be able to score with individual talent creating offense. This team doesn't have that. They have guys who need pattern/plays to create looks for them and that is too difficult to do for an entire season and against elite competition. To change or should I say tweak "The System"-get a traditional PG--with athleticism--i.e. quickness/speed, and value of the basketball. If he doesn't shoot it great--fine-that's one of III's strength as a coach--developing a guy's jumpshot-but the PG position is one spot that a player can impact the game without having to score--and seeing a quick guard be able to defend opposing guards would be a great thing. This is a very average year in BE and average guards have killed Georgetown. Starks is in over his head. He's just inadequate and provides nothing that team needs. He should be recruited over and DSR is combo that everyone wants for "The System", so you have that in place. I prefer a "system" where team SCORES and is capable of getting points in various ways--like the "crazy" notion of transition basketball where you can actually benefit from your defensive stops/forced turnovers instead of always having to get everything in halfcourt and struggling to break 60 damn pts a game. My god, we lose ONE game and we need to recruit different players and change "the system" ( whatever the Edited that means). Get a grip people. No--it's more like WAKE THE .... UP to rest of fanbase. The things I've ranted about for years have seen some answers: 1. Small Ball--Addressed 2. Better accountability--Addressed 3. Defensive emphasis--Addressed. Now--the areas that have been ignored and continue to be 1. Transition Basketball. You always have the fans who say "you have to play halfcourt...." and I understand that--but every championship team has the ability to get easy shots/points from transition. Be it off their defense or guys with abililty to create shots/good looks for teammates with penetration/passing ability and it's a lot easier to do with this was an athletic, traditional PG. 2. Attacking Pressure--ties with point above--but III's teams will show this once in a while--win a game and then go back to playing timid/scared hot potato. It's the worst press breaking offense I've seen in my time following the sport. I've seen 4th grade boys who use better press breaker. 3. Emphasis on Tempo--this is where a PG plays biggest factor. It's one thing to be primarily a halfcourt team, another to have no pace/tempo. III's record when scoring 69 pts or more is outstanding. His best games at Georgetown are uptempo/free flowing and where team shows urgency/pace to the entire game-but specifically on offensive end. So why in the hell does it only show up every 10 games or so? Get the ball into the frontcourt and get offense started. Instead of the vision of III holding up his hand to tell guys to slow it down. That's ridiculous with Georgetown's talent on wing and limits possessions in a game. If you are going to do this-you have to be strong in areas Hoyas are bad to mediocre--valuing the ball, making jumpshots, and making FT's. Otherwise, you are killing your own team's chances by limiting the possessions. Basketball coaches today act like offense is secondary to mattering. Teams who win titles score. They can do so in variety of ways--but the emphasis is on making game easier and not more difficult. To me-the lack of a PG and fail to acknowled the importance of the position is last step that III needs to address in taking this program up to the next level. He has to do this--because time and time again Hoyas struggle to score, struggle to beat pressure, get killed by average players who simply are quick--not even good--just quick and it either beats them or keeps mediocre teams in games because those guys can create some plays while Hoyas have to do everything from halfcourt. An adjustment has to be made. Nobody is saying you have to blow it up-but you aren't even getting to run your preferred system most of the time. So why not add a dimension that can make things easier? It's beyond frustrating to watch the same things over and over, voice complaints--hear fans tell you your're wrong-only for program to finally address the complaints and low and behold--it works and they improve. What a novel concept--doing what works and making things fit what you want to do or can improve what you're doing.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Mar 4, 2012 8:52:49 GMT -5
man, honestly, this thread can go Edited itself.
JT3 took a team everyone expected would struggle to make the NCAA tourney and went 12-6 in the big east regular season and has them comfortably ranked in the top 15 and because Villanova choked again, barely missed a double bye. They lost ON THE ROAD AT SENIOR DAY to the #7 team in the nation and struggled breaking the press against a team with the 20th ranked D according to kenpom and one that averages 9 steals a game, good for 12th IN THE NATION per game.
and this is the evidence? btw, the press break looked much better once they brought Markel in after starting Porter over him.
seriously, this is why people hate hoyatalk. i only come into the recruiting board because this type of negativity is traditionally reserved for Bolden's thread and the main page. smdh.
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Hordac
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by Hordac on Mar 4, 2012 9:41:29 GMT -5
I agree 100 % tornado. Remember that the vast majority of the posters on this board have never played or coached any sport at any level beyond little league. Take their opinions for what they are.
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swhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by swhoya on Mar 4, 2012 10:21:34 GMT -5
I think RDF usually has some good insights but seems to have suddenly lost all perspective. This is a good but perhaps not great team. We are going to be a 3-4 seed. Seriously, get a grip.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,351
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Post by calhoya on Mar 4, 2012 10:33:46 GMT -5
What team couldnt use more ballhandlers? The problem is with "the system" JTIII employs (which i support 100%) requires a PG that can shoot the 3. This normally means a combo guard unfortunately. It's time to change "The System". People can ignore the weaknesses all they want but really how often does Georgetown even get to utilize their preferred offense? Most of the time they face zone-and have to play zone offense. I love the advantages it offers if you can use it--but when teams either press you or play zone--you have to be able to score with individual talent creating offense. This team doesn't have that. They have guys who need pattern/plays to create looks for them and that is too difficult to do for an entire season and against elite competition. To change or should I say tweak "The System"-get a traditional PG--with athleticism--i.e. quickness/speed, and value of the basketball. If he doesn't shoot it great--fine-that's one of III's strength as a coach--developing a guy's jumpshot-but the PG position is one spot that a player can impact the game without having to score--and seeing a quick guard be able to defend opposing guards would be a great thing. This is a very average year in BE and average guards have killed Georgetown. Starks is in over his head. He's just inadequate and provides nothing that team needs. He should be recruited over and DSR is combo that everyone wants for "The System", so you have that in place. I prefer a "system" where team SCORES and is capable of getting points in various ways--like the "crazy" notion of transition basketball where you can actually benefit from your defensive stops/forced turnovers instead of always having to get everything in halfcourt and struggling to break 60 damn pts a game. Amen. Adapt Coach.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Mar 4, 2012 10:40:45 GMT -5
I think RDF usually has some good insights but seems to have suddenly lost all perspective. This is a good but perhaps not great team. We are going to be a 3-4 seed. Seriously, get a grip. I totally understand your sentiments, but the overachieving tag has got to go away. The team was vastly underrated. They have not been overachievers. Rather some players finally played to their potential while others proved to be far more "college-ready" than anticipated. JT III gets credit for all of that, but it is really time to stop judging our expectations based upon what we fans/experts thought about this team last November. Now they must be judged based upon the season of work and it is no longer fair to reject all criticisms based upon the argument that they are better than we expected. This team has the potential to go a good ways in the tournament or flameout quickly. The one major flaw appears to be what to do on offense when another team "breaks down" our system. I have no problem with RDF or others suggesting that we have flaws that can and should be addressed--obviously most cannot be implemented this year, but you have to be able to discuss the issue if it is ever to be addressed.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2012 10:56:38 GMT -5
Well we actually ran a pick and roll yesterday and got a dunk from Henry.. You can pick and roll out of the Princeton either on the top off the key or on a wing entry, however you have to have the personnel to run it consistently which we do not haveā¦
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Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 4, 2012 11:01:01 GMT -5
I think one way to improve our transition basketball that hasn't been discussed yet in this thread is getting guys who can take contact and finish at the rim. I'm hoping Otto and Greg can be those guys in the upcoming years once they've had some time to physically mature.
We talk a lot about how other teams dunk more than we do. This weakness of ours showed up in a game like yesterday, where we still blew 4-6 points in the rare transition opportunities we tried to take advantage of because our guys (Hollis and Nate are the two most glaring examples I can remember) couldn't dunk a basketball and convert what should be a high percentage shot.
So yes, you do need a PG who can push the ball and create for others on the break when the opportunities present themselves. But you also need guys who can finish at the rim.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Mar 4, 2012 11:08:01 GMT -5
My god, we lose ONE game and we need to recruit different players and change "the system" ( whatever the Edited that means). Get a grip people. No--it's more like WAKE THE .... UP to rest of fanbase. The things I've ranted about for years have seen some answers: 1. Small Ball--Addressed 2. Better accountability--Addressed 3. Defensive emphasis--Addressed. Now--the areas that have been ignored and continue to be 1. Transition Basketball. You always have the fans who say "you have to play halfcourt...." and I understand that--but every championship team has the ability to get easy shots/points from transition. Be it off their defense or guys with abililty to create shots/good looks for teammates with penetration/passing ability and it's a lot easier to do with this was an athletic, traditional PG. 2. Attacking Pressure--ties with point above--but III's teams will show this once in a while--win a game and then go back to playing timid/scared hot potato. It's the worst press breaking offense I've seen in my time following the sport. I've seen 4th grade boys who use better press breaker. 3. Emphasis on Tempo--this is where a PG plays biggest factor. It's one thing to be primarily a halfcourt team, another to have no pace/tempo. III's record when scoring 69 pts or more is outstanding. His best games at Georgetown are uptempo/free flowing and where team shows urgency/pace to the entire game-but specifically on offensive end. So why in the hell does it only show up every 10 games or so? Get the ball into the frontcourt and get offense started. Instead of the vision of III holding up his hand to tell guys to slow it down. That's ridiculous with Georgetown's talent on wing and limits possessions in a game. If you are going to do this-you have to be strong in areas Hoyas are bad to mediocre--valuing the ball, making jumpshots, and making FT's. Otherwise, you are killing your own team's chances by limiting the possessions. Basketball coaches today act like offense is secondary to mattering. Teams who win titles score. They can do so in variety of ways--but the emphasis is on making game easier and not more difficult. To me-the lack of a PG and fail to acknowled the importance of the position is last step that III needs to address in taking this program up to the next level. He has to do this--because time and time again Hoyas struggle to score, struggle to beat pressure, get killed by average players who simply are quick--not even good--just quick and it either beats them or keeps mediocre teams in games because those guys can create some plays while Hoyas have to do everything from halfcourt. An adjustment has to be made. Nobody is saying you have to blow it up-but you aren't even getting to run your preferred system most of the time. So why not add a dimension that can make things easier? It's beyond frustrating to watch the same things over and over, voice complaints--hear fans tell you your're wrong-only for program to finally address the complaints and low and behold--it works and they improve. What a novel concept--doing what works and making things fit what you want to do or can improve what you're doing. Interesting perspective RDF, but have to disagree on your point about not attacking the press. Once we get the ball past halfcourt, I think we've done a much better job at looking to get numbers and create quick offense. Yesterday, the problem was handling the press, however once we break it, I like what we've done this year.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Mar 4, 2012 11:31:22 GMT -5
And you think III has not been trying to get a premier point guard?
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