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Post by professorhoya on Jan 17, 2012 21:42:30 GMT -5
We had roughly the same amount of turnovers as we have been having in other games lately. 18 in this game. 17, 15, 17 (in the Marquette, West Virginia and Cincinnati games) Yeah, but Otto had 5, and a lot of that was from handling the ball when he otherwise wouldn't. Different TO game, IMO. But, still, it's out biggest problem, I agree. We've had alot of trouble vs the press in other games too. The Louisville game is one example. People were blaming the inbounder passer in those games but regardless we were still turning it over alot. DePaul did stay with the press alot more than other teams but breaking the press seems to be a big problem for us this year as opposed when we had Wright and Freeman. (someone mentioned Freeman was a great inbounder and Wright had the speed and strength to destroy the press).
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 17, 2012 21:43:45 GMT -5
DePaul was taught the fundamentals and executed them. Next they need to learn how to run a real offense. Let's see if Oliver egts a chance to make them a contender. I think they'll surprise someone this year if they get in the tournament. They have alot of good pieces, good size and athleticism.
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Post by centercourt400s on Jan 17, 2012 21:45:30 GMT -5
Just a minor point but we also have trouble inbounding the ball on the offensive end in other games. DePaul was very effective in inbounding the ball by keeping one guy past half court for a bailout pass. They did this numerous times during this game. Depaul was doing that while inbounding under their own basket. We'll give up that pass every time. We on the other hand had our trouble while inbounding under the Depaul basket and Depaul was certainly not going to give up a 3/4 court pass towards our goal.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 17, 2012 21:49:29 GMT -5
Just a minor point but we also have trouble inbounding the ball on the offensive end in other games. DePaul was very effective in inbounding the ball by keeping one guy past half court for a bailout pass. They did this numerous times during this game. Depaul was doing that while inbounding under their own basket. We'll give up that pass every time. We on the other hand had our trouble while inbounding under the Depaul basket and Depaul was certainly not going to give up a 3/4 court pass towards our goal. Yes, that's what I said. In other games we've had trouble inbounding the ball under the opponents basket. Lubick's pass in the Cinncinnati game comes to mind although there have been other instances. I was merely pointing out that if you watched this game you would see that Depauls solution to inbounding under the opponents basket is to keep one guy way back past half court. This is something that can easily be done.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Jan 17, 2012 21:49:32 GMT -5
DePaul was taught the fundamentals and executed them. Next they need to learn how to run a real offense. Let's see if Oliver egts a chance to make them a contender. I think they'll surprise someone this year if they get in the tournament. They have alot of good pieces, good size and athleticism. Which tournament, the CBI? We are talking DePaul, Pomeroy ranking of 160, only Big East win against the worst Pitt team in 20 years.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 17, 2012 21:50:58 GMT -5
I think they'll surprise someone this year if they get in the tournament. They have alot of good pieces, good size and athleticism. Which tournament, the CBI? We are talking DePaul, Pomeroy ranking of 160, only Big East win against the worst Pitt team in 20 years. Be nice.
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Post by cturner on Jan 17, 2012 21:51:34 GMT -5
Bet DePaul is questioning why they didn't press the entire game as they did against Villanova.
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Post by centercourt400s on Jan 17, 2012 22:05:05 GMT -5
Depaul was doing that while inbounding under their own basket. We'll give up that pass every time. We on the other hand had our trouble while inbounding under the Depaul basket and Depaul was certainly not going to give up a 3/4 court pass towards our goal. Yes, that's what I said. In other games we've had trouble inbounding the ball under the opponents basket. Lubick's pass in the Cinncinnati game comes to mind although there have been other instances. I was merely pointing out that if you watched this game you would see that Depauls solution to inbounding under the opponents basket is to keep one guy way back past half court. This is something that can easily be done. Ok, I was confused. Depaul actually did that while inbounding under the Georgetown basket. That's standard practice for most teams and if necessary we'll give up that pass to prevent a pass near the hoop that can turn into a quick scoring chance. From what I saw where we had trouble tonight was inbounding under our own basket after Depaul's made baskets. In those cases Depaul was guarding downcourt against long passes as standard practice so comparing their long inbounds passes under our basket to our trouble inbounding under our basket is comparing apples to oranges. It isn't the same situation.
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Post by detmut on Jan 17, 2012 22:06:55 GMT -5
That "concussion" has worked it's way into the stomach! Be nice
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 17, 2012 22:12:12 GMT -5
Yes, that's what I said. In other games we've had trouble inbounding the ball under the opponents basket. Lubick's pass in the Cinncinnati game comes to mind although there have been other instances. I was merely pointing out that if you watched this game you would see that Depauls solution to inbounding under the opponents basket is to keep one guy way back past half court. This is something that can easily be done. Ok, I was confused. Depaul actually did that while inbounding under the Georgetown basket. That's standard practice for most teams and if necessary we'll give up that pass to prevent a pass near the hoop that can turn into a quick scoring chance. From what I saw where we had trouble tonight was inbounding under our own basket after Depaul's made baskets. In those cases Depaul was guarding downcourt against long passes as standard practice so comparing their long inbounds passes under our basket to our trouble inbounding under our basket is comparing apples to oranges. It isn't the same situation. I wasn't talking about tonight regarding that. We didn't have that problem but in other games we have (like the Lubick pass at the end on the Cincy game IIRC) had that problem. All I'm saying is the way Depaul repeatedly handled that situation tonight is what we should be doing since we have had alot of problems with that.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 17, 2012 22:15:11 GMT -5
Let's be honest if the Hoyas make a few more FTs during that 4-13 start this game is not even competitive. Jason definitely came to play tonight and was fantastic. I beleive I read Depaul, on average, forces 17.5 TOs in Big East play. So our 18 is about right given we are definitely not good with the turnovers. Part of that was not having Markel against the press and some of it was just playing a lot of freshman and two big guys at that. They will get better about taking care of the ball. Lubick's TOs concern me more, how many times is he going to try to make the extra pass instead of making the move to the basket?
Two road wins and now we come home to face a RU team that has done some damage against top teams, however, mostly in the RAC. We need to be prepared for a streetfight.
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Post by sleepyjackson21 on Jan 17, 2012 22:17:53 GMT -5
If Jason keeps this up, i might have to find room for him in my board name. Sleepy and Jaren move over and let another 21 in! JC!
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Jan 17, 2012 22:33:58 GMT -5
I think they'll surprise someone this year if they get in the tournament. They have alot of good pieces, good size and athleticism. Which tournament, the CBI? We are talking DePaul, Pomeroy ranking of 160, only Big East win against the worst Pitt team in 20 years. Oh come on, Pitt sucked as recently as 2000.
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CTHoya08
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Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on Jan 17, 2012 22:47:26 GMT -5
Watching the game, I didn't get the sense that we were turning it over nearly as much as we have been recently.
The back-and-forth about inbounding has me wondering: which basket is "our" basket? Having been a hockey player growing up, I've always thought of a team defending "its" goal, rather than attacking it. But it's the opposite for basketball, right?
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Jan 17, 2012 22:54:36 GMT -5
1. I don't remember such a dominant rebounding performance in Big East play to win us a game since Alonzo Mourning was here. This won us the game.
2. I saw zero dropoff with Markel not playing. Tonight we didn't need his scoring. Other nights, we will.
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Jan 17, 2012 23:05:27 GMT -5
good points dhall me thinks that ottomatic reminds me a tad of one junk yard dog jerome yup who mad a living in the nba rebounding as a NICE dennis rodman sorta go hoyas go otttttoooo ps not bad jason. go hoyas beat rutgers yes
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gahoya
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Post by gahoya on Jan 17, 2012 23:08:45 GMT -5
Don't forget Nate. He had a hell of a stat line as well. I think it was 7 boards and 5/6 assists and 4 points. Good job by him.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jan 17, 2012 23:14:51 GMT -5
You have to give DePaul credit they kept fighting each time we started to pull away. They kept pressing and kept up the activity level. I think our guys were surprised they hadn't given up down the stretch.
Got fix the free throw shooting. I was surprised we had as many turnovers as we did. You do have to think Markel's absence had a bit to do with it, and some of those were questionable, you have to remember things like Otto being knocked over with no call, and the questionable charge calls were also turnovers. We can do better, but this wasn't the turnover problems of the cinci and WV games.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jan 17, 2012 23:16:36 GMT -5
On Markel Starks: "He has--and this is not the trainer's definition or the doctor's but--something going on with his stomach. I found out after we got here. We were getting on the bus and he said he wasn't feeling well he's been throwing up and having stomach issues and then once he got here, he just said he felt too weak, told me he couldn't play."
Also of note great to see Jason find his shooting stroke in this game. I think he hit as many three's this game as he had in the rest of the BE games combined.
another thought: how crazy is it that Hollis shot 50% from 3 and that's below his average.
The play where DePaul bounced the ball of our player to get the easy score. I know it's perfectly legal and there's no real reason why it shouldn't be, It just seems so wrong to me that you can do that. Did he establish himself inbounds on that play?
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 17, 2012 23:18:37 GMT -5
We had roughly the same amount of turnovers as we have been having in other games lately. 18 in this game. 17, 15, 17 (in the Marquette, West Virginia and Cincinnati games) Yeah, but Otto had 5, and a lot of that was from handling the ball when he otherwise wouldn't. Hey, he's gotta learn sometime. Let him work through his mistakes. The Hoyas need him to become a more confident ballhandler.
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