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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Nov 28, 2011 23:36:11 GMT -5
HSB, that's what it was. A T given to each side. The confusion was they didn't announce it in the arena like they normally would. I'll look for it as I watch the game on MASN now.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 28, 2011 23:51:31 GMT -5
Loving the low TO numbers!!! (Knock on wood!!) Through six games: 14, 10, 11, 15 (Chaminade), 9 and 7. We're protecting the ball vs. all competition.
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Nov 29, 2011 0:01:49 GMT -5
stat gurus: At this point, what are we to make of the TO's? I mean, 6 games isn't a large sample size..but how much can we take from it? It IS something at this point, no? The China TO's were low as well, right?
We did protect the ball very well in 05-06, and I tried to think of a correlation, at first I thought maybe DJ playing time at the 2 and having a long, tall team 2-5? But Jon and Ashanti logged heavy minutes, so it was spot minutes there and not much else for DJ if I remember right.
So, not sure what exactly it was then, but for now the increase size can't hurt. Much easier to maneuver in this offense with 6'8 guys in place of 6'3 guys.
Whatever it is, if it keeps up it really is a significant change that can pay huge dividends.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Nov 29, 2011 0:27:17 GMT -5
What I liked is that we spent the entire second half(I believe) in the 2-3 zone. Glad to see us actively working at perfecting that defensive set.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 29, 2011 0:37:29 GMT -5
HSB... didn't see the signal on TV either. Only heard it from the commentators. Henry did do a bit of a foot drag over the guys stomach though. Seemed intentional enough to warrant the T. No clue what was said to T up the other side.
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by seaweed on Nov 29, 2011 1:22:31 GMT -5
disagree tas - it is at the 14:50 mark in the second half after Hollis drives the lane off a beautiful reaction to Nate's hot outlet pass from under the backboard. Hollis bounces off their big Siakam (decent position, not good enough), gets the and1 and as the guy is lying on the ground Henry steps over him to go be with his teammates. As he does so he kindly lets the guy know what he thinks about the hoop and the harm - he looks kinda happy. Only when the other guy pushes up at Hank does he allow the foot to slide down and tangle up a bit. Great damned play by Nate and Hollis, great attitude by Hank showing just the right kind of bad attitude though of course he has to be careful and in command of himself. probably a good double t. i thought the broadcasters were pretty clear and Tillman took the opportunity to say it reminded him of "the Georgetown of old, much more intensity, more aggression, stepping over players, this is how Georgetown teams used to be back in the day." Hell, I can't be the only guy thinking Hank seems to be taking on a nascent Pat like look, can I?
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Nov 29, 2011 1:41:38 GMT -5
Not outside of youtube, so I'll admit that I'm far from an expert. I don't doubt that he is offensively superior to Jabril. And I don't doubt that he will be a big contributor and get tons of run for us next year. I guess I just see him as splitting backup minutes at the 2 with Greg and taking backup minutes at the 1 (I think Greg will be the versatile 6th man who plays time at the 2, backs up Otto at the 3, and plays 3 when Otto goes to the 4). I just see Jabril as not offensively limited, but just a freshman on that end of the court. His offense will come as he gets more settled and comfortable. I don't see him lighting up the world next year offensively, but I see him scoring enough to contribute. And with very unproven big men next year (even more so than this year), we're going to have to defend from the outside in. Jabril is the one guard (Greg included) that consistently stays in front of his man. I think his defense leads to him starting. I agree with you on many fronts. Greg as a 6th man is appealing. And I also believe that Jabril will get better offensively with time. However, Jabril does not have a consistent J. And I'm not convinced time and comfort will fix that. Don't want to turn this to a Jabril vs DSR thread (I can just imagine the mess bronx and harlem would make out of that), but plenty of people who saw Jabril this summer in the KL swear by him. He was the Tombs' leading scorer and was playing exceptionally well against better competition than DSR is facing. And I'm not just talking about defense. I'm talking about his offense as well. He was taking it to seasoned guards, including one or two that have been drafted by the NBA. He was taking it to NBA big man and finishing. He was finishing well in the break and handling the ball for the Tombs most of the time. Reportedly there were moments in which he was reckless but there were also times in which he demonstrated leadership skills and poise. And while shooting wasn't described as his strength he still knocked down his share of outside shots. Based on what was reported he had a stronger KL summer debut than any guard recruited by III so far. And that includes Wright, Freeman, Clark, Rivers. People point out YouTube clips of DSR but you can go on YouTube and see plenty of examples of Jabril knocking down shots with good form to boot. I can't really judge his jump shot right now because he has barely taken any. Maybe that says a lot. Or maybe the kid is playing within himself. Regardless jump shots can be improved especially if one is willing to work at it. And from all indications Jabril is a guy willing to work. And even if DSR is a better jumpshooter there are other advantages Jabril has over him. DSR will never be as tall, will never be as athletic and most likely will never be as good on the defensive end. DSR may also never be as capable of driving to the whole as Jabril. That's an element that has not only been missing from III's guards but from most of III's players in general. And Jabril is physically capable of finishing once he gets to the rack or at least drawing fouls. But perhaps most important were the intangibles Jabril brings to the table this summer. He apparently set the tone for the Tombs. More than a week before Otto arrived Jabril burst onto the scene and made a name for himself to those watching. He set the example, he played hard at both ends, he displayed no fear or lack of confidence, he was the aggressor. And that type of attitude was reportedly contagious when it came to his teammates. Even when he got hurt he came back into games to battle instead of sitting it out. He ran his team and led one of the most successful Tombs runs I can recall when you consider the team was dominated by freshmen moro so than most previous Tombs rosters. He was a leader. So I think it is premature to dismiss him as a mere glorified bystander for the seasons ahead. Give him time. The kid was a top 100 recruit who seemed to have made a great impression in every tournament and post season high school all-star events he participated in. I don't think he accomplishes all of that without an offensive game. As for fitting III's system, III did offer him a scholarship. And III is playing him a lot for a frosh. There were real shooters like Josh Thornton who could not get on the court nearly as much as Jabril when he was a freshman. Also there was a guy named Jesse Sapp who had a jumpshot that left much to be desired, but who still found himself starting for the Hoyas for over two seasons. So maybe we need to stop making assumptions about who will start on next year Georgetown’s team. Just saying.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 29, 2011 1:58:18 GMT -5
Rarely does a Hoya guard go a career without the next prospect taking his job. But this is kind of ridiculous, since Jabril is six games in and playing backup minutes.
The X-Factor here at SG is Whittington. As much as Jabril is a defensive beast in terms of tenacity, strength, and quickness, Whittington could be even better. Because he's 6'8". Good lord, we could have a ridiculous defensive team once the freshmen kick in -- if we can find a defensive anchor in the middle.
Nerlens? Oh, Nerlens!
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Nov 29, 2011 2:22:55 GMT -5
Rarely does a Hoya guard go a career without the next prospect taking his job. True. I recall people claiming (hoping!) that Jabril would take Markel's minutes as the point guard.
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Post by NoBoumtjeInTheYaYaRoom on Nov 29, 2011 2:46:23 GMT -5
I agree with you on many fronts. Greg as a 6th man is appealing. And I also believe that Jabril will get better offensively with time. However, Jabril does not have a consistent J. And I'm not convinced time and comfort will fix that. And I'm not convinced that Nate has a game that is worthy of the NBA and yet you predicted with certainty that he is an NBA player despite little evidence on the floor to prove that at this point. Not saying it can't happen but right now Nate still looks like he has a long way to go. So why don't you try being patient with Jabril the way you obviously are with Nate. Don't want to turn this to a Jabril vs DSR thread (I can just imagine the mess bronx and harlem would make out of that), but plenty of people who saw Jabril this summer in the KL swear by him. He was the Tombs' leading scorer and was playing exceptionally well against better competition than DSR is facing. And I'm not just talking about defense. I'm talking about his offense as well. He was taking it to seasoned guards, including one or two that have been drafted by the NBA. He was taking it to NBA big man and finishing. He was finishing well in the break and handling the ball for the Tombs most of the time. Reportedly there were moments in which he was reckless but there were also times in which he demonstrated leadership skills and poise. And while shooting wasn't described as his strength he still knocked down his share of outside shots. Based on what was reported he had a stronger KL summer debut than any guard recruited by III so far. And that includes Wright, Freeman, Clark, Rivers. People point out YouTube clips of DSR but you can go on YouTube and see plenty of examples of Jabril knocking down shots with good form to boot. I can't really judge his jump shot right now because he has barely taken any. Maybe that says a lot. Or maybe the kid is playing within himself. Regardless jump shots can be improved especially if one is willing to work at it. And from all indications Jabril is a guy willing to work. And even if DSR is a better jumpshooter there are other advantages Jabril has over him. DSR will never be as tall, will never be as athletic and most likely will never be as good on the defensive end. DSR may also never be as capable of driving to the whole as Jabril. That's an element that has not only been missing from III's guards but from most of III's players in general. And Jabril is physically capable of finishing once he gets to the rack or at least drawing fouls. But perhaps most important were the intangibles Jabril brings to the table this summer. He apparently set the tone for the Tombs. More than a week before Otto arrived Jabril burst onto the scene and made a name for himself to those watching. He set the example, he played hard at both ends, he displayed no fear or lack of confidence, he was the aggressor. And that type of attitude was reportedly contagious when it came to his teammates. Even when he got hurt he came back into games to battle instead of sitting it out. He ran his team and led one of the most successful Tombs runs I can recall when you consider the team was dominated by freshmen more so than most previous Tombs rosters. He was a leader. So forgive me if I take issue with your dismissal of him as some mere glorified bystander for the seasons ahead. I'm going to give him much more time before making that call. The kid was a top 100 recruit who seemed to have made a great impression in every tournament and post season high school all-star events he participated in. I don't think he accomplishes all of that without an offensive game. As for fitting III's system, III did offer him a scholarship. And III is playing him a lot for a frosh. There were real shooters like Josh Thornton who could not get on the court nearly as much as Jabril when he was a freshman. Also there was a guy named Jesse Sapp who had a jumpshot that left much to be desired, but who still found himself starting for the Hoyas for over two seasons. So maybe we need to stop making assumptions about who will start on next year Georgetown’s team. Just saying. I knew I was sitting on the sidelines of this board for far too long. An MCI rant - I feel like Steve Buscemi in Mr. Deeds getting to cross your name off my list. (I'm looking damn good in this bright red lipstick.) "While I stated that Lubick is our least efficient starter, I do believe he will be an NBA player. Yes, I said Nate Lubick=NBA Player." - - - I said it and I stand by it. It is my less than humble prediction that I will be dying to say in a few years, "I informed you thusly." Shout out to Wil Wheaton. However, predictions are like condoms. Useless. I kid (pun intended). I meant to say that although you are confident in them, there is always a chance they malfunction and cause you to have a little squirt (pun not intended). Predictions and certainty don't mix. So we will have to break out the measuring tape in a couple years on this one. As for Jabril, I am a Georgetown fan. From that standpoint, I hope he becomes the greatest shooter of all time. But I've seen enough hoops and watched enough Dick Vitale on Dr. Dish Basketball Shooting Machine videos (google it) to realize that Jabril will likely never be a sharpshooter. And if you ever hear me use KL as a defense to a prediction, yell at my father for not realizing the possibility of prophylactic malfunction. I love KL. But I could get a better idea of a player's upside at West 3rd and 6th Ave. while I eat a Mamoun's Falafel. Being fortunate enough to have seen DSR and Jabril in person many times I would respectfully disagree with some of your conclusions. First, and with no doubt, Jabril is an INFINITELY better defender than DSR. However, in my opinion that is his only advantage over DSR. DSR uses his body in traffic and creates contact much better. Better J. Better finisher. Better ball handler. Better bball IQ. Better rebounder. Better at attacking hoop. Man, does DSR have a Jdate profile? It sounds like I have a man crush. I guess this means I will never have a chance with RDF. As for Jabril, he has a role in this system. Play great defense. Play mistake free on offensive end. Bring fire. Be vocal. Of course JT3 recruited him because he thought he could add to the roster. That doesn't mean he envisions him as a starter/scorer. One can do good things on the court, help team win without being an offensive weapon. I actually think Jessie Sapp is a great comparison. The only difference is that the other 2 guards on the roster were Jeremiah Rivers, Tyler Crawford and Josh Thornton. Compared to Greg Whittington and DSR. Fortunately, we have better options. If we have better options back then, maybe we win a 'ship, although ATL was still fun. So as for assumptions, I like em round, thick and juicy. As for you MCI, I'd be glad to be your running mate in the 'Bril fan club elections, but don't assume just cause you're President I'm gonna let you start the meetings.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Nov 29, 2011 4:19:05 GMT -5
Anybody recording these games? I'm in Sydney and have been following Rich's always awesome radio calls, but I'd love to actually see this year's Hoyas. If anybody has the IUPUI game downloadable, please let me know (by PM). thanks!
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Nov 29, 2011 6:08:25 GMT -5
the team lacked the intensity from the start that i've seen in previous games. they let up way too many second shots in the first half. this is going to happen every once in a while, especially against teams like IUPUI. i assume III got into them at halftime and they looked like a much different team the second half. i would have liked to see hopkins and adams sooner when the game was out of hand with about 4 minutes left. i think we'll need at least one of them to spell henry come big east play. i don't like nate playing center when henry is out.
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Nov 29, 2011 6:48:59 GMT -5
first half BAD and slow second half quick JASON bad game hollis looked like a pro and frosh continued to help out A LOT and lookd good ps henrys meaness in first half kept us in and then SECOND HALF BETTER D SHUT DOWN THEIR 16 POINT SCORED YOUNG WHO KILLED US IN THE FIRST HALF no points NADDA IN THE SECOND HAlf be ready to play whole game to beat bama at bama TOUGHEST GAME SO FAR THIS YEAR AT BAma PLAY 40 MINUTES HARD.... OR MORE
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Nov 29, 2011 7:51:46 GMT -5
disagree tas - it is at the 14:50 mark in the second half after Hollis drives the lane off a beautiful reaction to Nate's hot outlet pass from under the backboard. Hollis bounces off their big Siakam (decent position, not good enough), gets the and1 and as the guy is lying on the ground Henry steps over him to go be with his teammates. As he does so he kindly lets the guy know what he thinks about the hoop and the harm - he looks kinda happy. Only when the other guy pushes up at Hank does he allow the foot to slide down and tangle up a bit. Great damned play by Nate and Hollis, great attitude by Hank showing just the right kind of bad attitude though of course he has to be careful and in command of himself. probably a good double t. i thought the broadcasters were pretty clear and Tillman took the opportunity to say it reminded him of "the Georgetown of old, much more intensity, more aggression, stepping over players, this is how Georgetown teams used to be back in the day." Hell, I can't be the only guy thinking Hank seems to be taking on a nascent Pat like look, can I? For the past 3 years or so Ive been demanding this type of swagger or meaness to return. Often Ive been scolded on this site "well you cant play like Zo or the other hoya teams of the past did, the rules just dont tolerate it". Well I for one am happy to have a guy like Trawick on the team or a Mean Sims not taking any crap. Very refreshing.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 29, 2011 8:58:11 GMT -5
This far into the season I'm particularly pleased and, yes, surprised at Markel's emergence as a very good point guard.
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Post by HometownHoya on Nov 29, 2011 9:34:43 GMT -5
I agree with you on many fronts. Greg as a 6th man is appealing. And I also believe that Jabril will get better offensively with time. However, Jabril does not have a consistent J. And I'm not convinced time and comfort will fix that. An integral part of our offense is the guards ability to shoot the 3. When you put him out there with 3 of Otto, Greg, Clark and Markel it is masked nicely since you have 3 other guys who are far more efficient from deep. While next year is far off, I will be very interested to see how JT3 adjusts our offensive scheme to rely less on the 3 as we will have multiple guards with great driving and finishing ability rather than pure jump shooting ability. Either way, the future is bright and that is exciting from our standpoint. I beg to differ...shooting is a movement that through repetitive motion, can be perfected. I've seen enough non-Div-1 bball players work on their shot enough to have a decent shooting form. Why do players practice FT's all the time? So the motion is automatic. I don't think his J will miraculously improve this season (although how many jump shots has he taken this season...5-10?), it is a bit far to say that he won't improve his shot. Additionally, as you went into, the Princetown offense DOES allow the guards to drive. Traditionally for us, our guards have just been better shooters then they have been ball handlers. We are seeing it better with Markel but we saw it with CW, both players take the drive first unless the 3 is OPEN. Our offense is about evaluating what the defense is doing and if your best option as a player is attacking the basket, then you do that. The more options and weapons a player has, the more effective they will be in our offense. That said, I haven't seen enough of Jabril to make a declaration on his shoot, let alone what his game is. We have seen his defense and that is all we need from him for now. There is still a large OOC for him to learn his role on offense but defense wins championships and he has been excellent when called upon. PS Who was marking Young for the rest of the game after his first run? Was the 2-3 stopping him that much?
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Nov 29, 2011 9:51:45 GMT -5
The T wasn't called for the step over by Henry. The IUPUI guy didn't take too kindly to it, got up and said something, and both started moving toward each other. Only after they were yapping at each other for a few seconds did the Ts come out.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Nov 29, 2011 9:52:55 GMT -5
It was a solid win last night, but there are certainly still areas for improvement.
Our defense was poor early because we were slow to recover after helping against drives on defense and also slow getting back out to perimeter shooters. But give IUPUI credit; they knocked down those early open jumpers, which not every team takes advantage of.
I thought Lubick had an extremely poor first half. He was a liability on both ends of the floor; slow to rotate on defense and didn't finish near the basket on offense. That being said, he atoned for his early mistakes with a much stronger second half.
Markel was uncharacteristically careless with the ball last night. Call it an off-night, but at least 2 if not more of his turnovers could have easily been prevented. As a team, though, as noted above in earlier posts, overall we are doing a much better job of taking care of the ball.
We missed a lot of layups in close last night as well. Just about everyone was guilty of this. If we make our layups, we win that game by 30+. On a night when you're playing IUPUI, you can live with it. If we do the same on Thursday at Alabama, we are going to be in trouble.
Things I did like: I loved that we buckled down on defense in the second half. Jabril is an absolute beast defending on the perimeter. Once we started to utilize the press, it really threw off IUPUI's offensive game, as not only the press forced turnovers, but even if IUPUI was able to get the ball up the floor, they were at a severe disadvantage beginning their halfcourt set with only 20 seconds on the shot clock. Lastly, I thought Otto had another great game last night and did just about everything you could do to help a team win besides shoulder the scoring load. Very reminiscent of Jeff, who was sitting courtside again last night with Roy. What sets him apart this early in his career is his basketball IQ. Just an incredibly smart player who always seems to make the right decision.
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Nov 29, 2011 10:47:24 GMT -5
NEED WORK lubbie tough shooting first half but BEAST ON THE BOARDS 14 WAS GREAT i think hes the toughest dude in the big east.. vs robinson from kansas who was kiling henry LUBBIE came in and bodied him up and stopped most of the dunks yup last eight minutes or so.. sooooo go hoyas great second half dont be asleep for the first half vs bama or that will be all she wrote TOUGH AND TOGETHER
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 29, 2011 11:16:44 GMT -5
I feel like Nate is now getting the "I'm going to watch every second and pick as much as I can treatment."
Part of it is the 8 D Rebounds, but CO's altered net points (from Dean Oliver) put Nate at a 67.6 D Rating for the game -- meaning that the combination of Nate's trackable contributions and the defense of the team while he was on the floor was the best on the team.
Now since I didn't see the game, perhaps he really was awful in the first half (I doubt it -- it sounded more like everyone was bad on rotations and Nate missed some bunnies like everyone else on the team did).
But if he did, then he had a heckuva second half. He was a +9.2 on net points for the game -- driven by his O rebounds (and while 3 were on his own shots, they are offset in value by misses) and a fantastic 5 to 0 assist to TO ratio. Add in some good D and owning the boards and he had a very good game (just behind Hollis' wildly efficient game in net points).
Net points are not the end all, be all, but people seem to be looking to pick.
Dude had 14 reobunds in 25 minutes. Yes. That's rebounding at a Mike Sweetney rate. Or better.
Yes, it's IUPUI. I don't care. That's a really nice game.
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