rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Nov 18, 2011 0:54:10 GMT -5
One of the aspects of the Penn State scandal that gave the initial reports so much credibility is the fact that the evidence consisted of third-party observations of molestation, that were to some extent reported to authorities through official channels at the time that they occurred, resulting in official documentation. (For what it's worth, the first Herman Cain accusers had the same kind of advantages to their credit).
Fine's accusers sound more like candidates for representation by Gloria Allred. I want to mock the SUcks (and probably will) but I will certainly be withholding my actual judgment until more information emerges.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Nov 18, 2011 1:34:21 GMT -5
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Nov 18, 2011 8:15:22 GMT -5
currently, this isn't as broad ranging at the penn state deal.
Mods- shouldn't you move this thread to the college board?
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Nov 18, 2011 8:30:31 GMT -5
Wow. Initially, I thought this was going to be more smoke than fire, but if you watch that video, there is a lot of compelling material that portrays Davis as a credible complainant whose charges at the very least need to be investigated very seriously immediately.
Two things pop out to me.
First, if what Davis is alleging turns out to be true, Boeheim is in trouble. Even assuming Boeheim had no knowledge of child molestation, how could a head coach repeatedly allow an assistant coach to bunk with underage boys on road trips and recruiting trips? Again, even if no legal liability for Boeheim, it would appear, at the very least, that he displayed egregious lack of judgement that will require some form of punishment.
Second, if you listen to the very carefully scripted interview of ESPN's anchor Anderson of ESPN's reporter Schwarz, as much as they are attempting to convey the facts of the story, they are also attempting to justify the network's own decision to not initially report (which may be okay) or not take further action by themselves contacting the police or pushing the story/investigation further (which in retrospect they may now catch some heat over). With this dynamic, my feeling is that ESPN/Schwarz will make this a very personal crusade because the perception may be that the network might have dropped the ball back when it first investigated the story.
This won't go away. And with all institutions on hyper-alert and under enormous public pressure, I don't see how this end nicely for Boeheim, unless Davis turns out to be not credible at all.
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Post by pr20 on Nov 18, 2011 9:04:02 GMT -5
Sadly, Exposing this sort of behavior won't prevent cover-ups in my opinion. I wish it would but we just do not breed a culture of blowing the whistle on people. We are a "mind your own buisness" society. Make sure that "my kids are safe" society. Many people see and know of instances when people(children) are being mistreated all the time. We say and do nothing. espcially at out jobs for fear of losing them. I cannot stand Jason Whitlock but he wrote a peice on this very point yesterday and for once I agree with that clown. msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/mike-mcqueary-what-angers-most-is-they-see-themselves-when-they-consider-his-actions-in-penn-state-sex-abuse-scandal-111711Someone commented on the board about this guy being a scorned lover and to those comments i say that we should be careful in casting it that way. When kids are groomed into a culture of abuse from a young age they are entirely scarred by the incidents and the normal sense of reality that you or I may have had as an 18 year old young man is not a fair standard to compare to the thinking of a victim. I dare say that if the victim were a woman and that statement where made that a moderator may have removed the comment because of its heinous implications.
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Post by bigelephant on Nov 18, 2011 9:07:00 GMT -5
Good analysis Ranch. WOW this is getting unbelievable! I always hated/disliked Boeheim as an opponent but never off the court. He has been a good BE guy his whole life and was very much against the present move to the ACC. Icons falling every which way. Peacock today Feather Duster tomorrow.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 18, 2011 10:56:45 GMT -5
As one of the (apparently few) non-attorneys here, I object to the overuse of the term "complainant" in this thread.
As moderator, I agree this topic, though involving a former Big East team, is better located in the Pro & College Sports Forum so it will be moved there.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 18, 2011 11:07:27 GMT -5
As one of the (apparently few) non-attorneys here, I object to the overuse of the term "complainant" in this thread. As moderator, I agree this topic, though involving a former Big East team, is better located in the Pro & College Sports Forum so it will be moved there.Former Big East team?
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 18, 2011 11:09:24 GMT -5
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Nov 18, 2011 11:16:36 GMT -5
They are still alive and have all the benefits of the BE, even though the are trailer trash
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Nov 18, 2011 11:53:11 GMT -5
I just watched the ESPN piece on this and I don't really know what to believe. Unlike the PSU situation with the Grand Jury report, this one has yet to be fully investigated. But, watching the two guys (whom the board lawyers refer to as complainants)... they seemed pretty darn credible to me. Clearly, something went on that upset them both immensely and still to this day.
Also, under any circumstances, why on earth would an Asst. Coach take a ball boy on recruiting trips? And stay overnight? I mean think about it. Assume the most innocent circumstance. Why? Trips to the Final Four and Maui for the tournament? OK... a special reward for being the ball boy and included in team events. But recruiting trips?
One more thing... I assume it is still true today, but I know that historically, ESPN was loaded with Syracuse grads. Some of you may know of The S. I. Newhouse School of Public Communications at Syracuse U. OK, we all hate the Orange, but objectively, Newhouse is highly regarded. Lots of their kids (and probably other 'Cuse alumni) got internships and jobs at ESPN. So there has always been a heavy 'Cuse orientation. (after spending 4 years in Syracuse, NY, Bristol CT doesn't look so bad)
As for Boeheim, I don't doubt that he believes what he said. He believes the younger men are lying. He believes Bernie Fine. Afterall, it is almost impossible to believe something like that really happened, especially right under your nose.
Given the PSU situation, I'm reasonably sure these new 'Cuse allegations will be investigated thoroughly too -- as they should be. Hopefully, the truth will come out one way or the other - to exonerate Bernie Fine, or to finally bring him to justice.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Nov 18, 2011 12:17:18 GMT -5
Wow. That set of posts on the Marquette board are shameful. How ignorant. No joke: vcjack once texted several of us a photo of a poster inside the bathroom at the Bradley Center during a Georgetown/Marquette game. The ad's purpose was to warn men away from committing statutory rape. After glancing at that message board, it starts to make sense... Good memory. Although to be fair to the well educated Marquette fans, that PSA told men not to have sex with underage girls so I can see where the confusion comes from when something like this happens and there isn't a helpful poster to tell you what to do. But on the other hand, this scandal happened not too long ago in Milwaukee so you'd think they'd still know better by now: www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/03/wisconsin_priest_accused_of_mo.html
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 18, 2011 12:36:01 GMT -5
As long as Georgetown's wins over the Orange are recognized by the conference. ;D
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Post by centercourt400s on Nov 18, 2011 13:25:00 GMT -5
I'm wondering why the police are involved at all at this point? An ESPN article said "The statute of limitations in New York is five years from the last instance of sexual contact." Doesn't that mean it isn't a criminal matter at this point regardless of how awful it sounds? Why would the police pursue a case where there is no chance of prosecution? Or have there been allegations of abuse within the last 5 years?
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 18, 2011 14:23:06 GMT -5
I'm wondering why the police are involved at all at this point? An ESPN article said "The statute of limitations in New York is five years from the last instance of sexual contact." Doesn't that mean it isn't a criminal matter at this point regardless of how awful it sounds? Why would the police pursue a case where there is no chance of prosecution? Or have there been allegations of abuse within the last 5 years? Yes, the second alleged victim. Edit : Whoops, for some reason I thought the second victim was younger. Second victim is older. I'm confused now too.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Nov 18, 2011 14:49:26 GMT -5
I'm wondering why the police are involved at all at this point? An ESPN article said "The statute of limitations in New York is five years from the last instance of sexual contact." Doesn't that mean it isn't a criminal matter at this point regardless of how awful it sounds? Why would the police pursue a case where there is no chance of prosecution? Or have there been allegations of abuse within the last 5 years? I don't know the answer, but I can offer a possibility. Perhaps the original claim was made within the time limit The police chose not to pursue it beyond their initial investigation because they were unable to find any corroborating witnesses. Now there is a second witness, so they are re-opening the case. Does that mean the date of the original complaint still applies? Second possibility. Could the Syracuse police force which at the time had a former 'Cuse hoopster in their ranks, want to pursue this investigation to clear their own name? Third. Given the current PSU situation, if you were the Pres/Chancellor of 'Cuse, wouldn't you want to leave no stones unturned to find the truth? Not sure how any of those three fit with the Statute of Limitations and official police investigations. But I threw them out there anyway.
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Nov 18, 2011 14:54:25 GMT -5
According to the Paterno Protocols, Jim Boeheim should be pilloried for voicing any support of Fine, and has something along the lines of 72 hours to clean out his desk. If all goes to form, Fine will be the only person allowed a full hearing and the chance to defend himself, because he will actually be charged with a crime. Boeheim, like Paterno, will not be charged, which only hastens his immediate and total destruction by popular fiat, facts and reputation be damned. Welcome to the United States of Twitter!! Godspeed, Jim Boeheim!!
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 18, 2011 15:16:23 GMT -5
You can't possibly be defending Paterno's inaction......
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Nov 18, 2011 15:27:28 GMT -5
According to the Paterno Protocols, Jim Boeheim should be pilloried for voicing any support of Fine, and has something along the lines of 72 hours to clean out his desk. If all goes to form, Fine will be the only person allowed a full hearing and the chance to defend himself, because he will actually be charged with a crime. Boeheim, like Paterno, will not be charged, which only hastens his immediate and total destruction by popular fiat, facts and reputation be damned. Welcome to the United States of Twitter!! Godspeed, Jim Boeheim!! Yeah damn that Twitter and social media, how dare they help put an end to the use of Penn State locker rooms as rape dungeons. All good they've done is made kindly old men like Paterno and Boeheim sad. Maybe sad old man Bernard Law will give them a pep talk soon!
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 18, 2011 15:39:22 GMT -5
I'm wondering why the police are involved at all at this point? An ESPN article said "The statute of limitations in New York is five years from the last instance of sexual contact." Doesn't that mean it isn't a criminal matter at this point regardless of how awful it sounds? Why would the police pursue a case where there is no chance of prosecution? Or have there been allegations of abuse within the last 5 years? My assumption is one of two reasons:(1) The possibility of other victims including more recent victims that could still be prosecuted;(2)Possible violations of New York laws requiring mandatory reporting by a much longer list of job descriptions than under Pennsylvania and many other states' laws. Of course the possibility of CYA strategy by the police also a possibilty. It is very likely that the eventual outcome here will depend on whether any other victims come forward - which would mean the end of Fine and Boeheim - and/or whether the two step-brothers can produce documents or other proof to support their claims(i.e. that they were taken on recruiting trips, or even that they traveled to Final Four/Maui with Fine. Have to hold judgment for now, but the fact that ESPN ran with this certainly suggests that they felt there is credibility.
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