miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Nov 18, 2011 15:51:34 GMT -5
I believe Joe Paterno had, and has, the right for the facts to come out, and to defend himself in light of the facts. Nothing short of that is acceptable in our society...
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 18, 2011 15:59:38 GMT -5
According to the Paterno Protocols, Jim Boeheim should be pilloried for voicing any support of Fine, and has something along the lines of 72 hours to clean out his desk. If all goes to form, Fine will be the only person allowed a full hearing and the chance to defend himself, because he will actually be charged with a crime. Boeheim, like Paterno, will not be charged, which only hastens his immediate and total destruction by popular fiat, facts and reputation be damned. Welcome to the United States of Twitter!! Godspeed, Jim Boeheim!! That has to be one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read on here. Everyone on this board is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Nov 18, 2011 16:29:56 GMT -5
Oops! Thanks KC! As stupid as I am, it is truly amazing it has taken someone so long to point that out here on the Saxa boards! Of course, maybe it already was, and I was just too idiotic to notice. Anyway, I had the misfortune of being born to a Penn State grad, and I have met Joe Paterno many times throughout my life. I am sick to my stomach over every aspect of this scandal, and in NO WAY am I trying to defend anyone's behavior, Sandusky or Paterno or Penn State. However, in terms of Joe Paterno's involvement, there is simply no established fact with which to judge his actions with certainty. No one, not even KCHoya, knows what the Edited went on with the investigations, or with McQueary. I know I am a major simpleton, and barely worthy of mighty KCHoya's withering put downs, but it seems to me that Mike McQueary has already cast major doubt on the Grand Jury's findings in his initial contact with the media. Oh, what the heck, if it feels good, it must BE good, right KC? I mean, and we would all bet the corneas of our children on this, it is more important to be quick, than to be right.
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Nov 18, 2011 18:06:23 GMT -5
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Nov 18, 2011 18:11:43 GMT -5
I'm personally having a very difficult time believing these allegations. If there was any sliver of a doubt in his mind, Boeheim would not come out with such a strong statement. As I said, Fine is very well respected in the community and everyone who knows him seems to be issuing statements of support.
Although, since you can't be sure of anything these days, its hard to really know what to believe until the police issue a report. I just hope this situation gets resolved quickly for everyone involved.
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 18, 2011 18:20:30 GMT -5
I believe Joe Paterno had, and has, the right for the facts to come out, and to defend himself in light of the facts. Nothing short of that is acceptable in our society... He wasn't being tried legally, he was being fired. Most likely the facts did come out and were kept in house by Penn State.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 18, 2011 18:38:47 GMT -5
Oops! Thanks KC! As stupid as I am, it is truly amazing it has taken someone so long to point that out here on the Saxa boards! Of course, maybe it already was, and I was just too idiotic to notice. Anyway, I had the misfortune of being born to a Penn State grad, and I have met Joe Paterno many times throughout my life. I am sick to my stomach over every aspect of this scandal, and in NO WAY am I trying to defend anyone's behavior, Sandusky or Paterno or Penn State. However, in terms of Joe Paterno's involvement, there is simply no established fact with which to judge his actions with certainty. No one, not even KCHoya, knows what the Edited went on with the investigations, or with McQueary. I know I am a major simpleton, and barely worthy of mighty KCHoya's withering put downs, but it seems to me that Mike McQueary has already cast major doubt on the Grand Jury's findings in his initial contact with the media. Oh, what the heck, if it feels good, it must BE good, right KC? I mean, and we would all bet the corneas of our children on this, it is more important to be quick, than to be right. I'm still trying to figure out how Paterno is being pilloried for supporting Sandusky, as you claim. As to your claim that, "in terms of Joe Paterno's involvement, there is simply no established fact with which to judge his actions with certainty," are you kidding? Take off your blue and white colored glasses.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 18, 2011 19:01:00 GMT -5
I'm personally having a very difficult time believing these allegations. If there was any sliver of a doubt in his mind, Boeheim would not come out with such a strong statement. As I said, Fine is very well respected in the community and everyone who knows him seems to be issuing statements of support. Although, since you can't be sure of anything these days, its hard to really know what to believe until the police issue a report. I just hope this situation gets resolved quickly for everyone involved. Fine released a statement this afternoon - pretty much a complete denial, and you can bet that statement was reviewed carefully by trained professionals.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Nov 18, 2011 19:38:16 GMT -5
It should be possible to determine how often the ball boy traveled with and roomed with Fine. If that happened it doesn't prove sexual activity but it does raise questions that can only be answered by a full investigation.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 18, 2011 19:38:19 GMT -5
Why did you feel you had to editorialize your comment by saying you bet the statement was reviewed by trained professionals? That's opinion.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 18, 2011 20:00:47 GMT -5
Why did you feel you had to editorialize your comment by saying you bet the statement was reviewed by trained professionals? That's opinion. Because every one of his posts on here is reviewed and edited by a trained professional.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 18, 2011 21:21:17 GMT -5
Why did you feel you had to editorialize your comment by saying you bet the statement was reviewed by trained professionals? That's opinion. No, it is not opinion. It is fact. "The statement was released about 3:20 p.m. today by Karl J. Sleight, a partner with Harris Beach law office in Albany."
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 18, 2011 21:23:15 GMT -5
Why did you feel you had to editorialize your comment by saying you bet the statement was reviewed by trained professionals? That's opinion. No, it is not opinion. It is fact. "The statement was released about 3:20 p.m. today by Karl J. Sleight, a partner with Harris Beach law office in Albany." No, that's your opinion (based on pure speculation and no [apparent] personal knowledge). It is not a fact.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 18, 2011 21:28:41 GMT -5
KC - You seem to be talented counsel. How often would you release a statement to the press on behalf of a client without reviewing it?
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Nov 18, 2011 22:52:50 GMT -5
KC, I was relating Boeheim's statement of support for Fine to Paterno's initial, and of course, eminently regrettable, statement that, as awful as the allegations may be, we have to wait for our system of justice to run it's course before rendering judgment. That arrogant prick! How dare Joe Paterno, in light of such horrific allegations, have the unmitigated gall to suggest that our system of justice and law even need be applied to such awful people! Really, the whole Penn State Administration should be renditioned to Yemen, or maybe Iraq, where we can utilize our full arsenal of truth finding capabilities on these so called people. Nothing less than that should even be considered when it comes to crimes against children! KC, you are so right. There are some accusations that are so.....horrible, that those accused of them should be mocked and dismissed for even suggesting their innocence. After all, that is precisely what the Constitution allows for, and, as TC says, "most likely the facts did come out and were kept in house by Penn State". Well, that settles it! We should start a law firm, Rolover and Dye LLC! We would never, ever, you know, like ever, question the findings of the prosecution, because that is precisely what people who have already been convicted by social media try so disgustingly to do, insist that they are innocent! Ooooh KC, that really boils my blood....
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 18, 2011 22:58:11 GMT -5
! How dare Joe Paterno, in light of such horrific allegations, have the unmitigated gall to suggest that our system of justice and law even need be applied to such awful people! “I’m not Joe Paterno. Somebody didn’t come and tell me Bernie Fine did something and I’m hiding it." - Jim Boeheim
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Nov 18, 2011 23:14:05 GMT -5
You're right TC. In Boeheim's case, no one is accusing Boeheim of hiding someone else's observances, he is being accused of seeing the victim in the predator's hotel room many times...
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Nov 18, 2011 23:53:47 GMT -5
According to the Paterno Protocols, Jim Boeheim should be pilloried for voicing any support of Fine, and has something along the lines of 72 hours to clean out his desk. If all goes to form, Fine will be the only person allowed a full hearing and the chance to defend himself, because he will actually be charged with a crime. Boeheim, like Paterno, will not be charged, which only hastens his immediate and total destruction by popular fiat, facts and reputation be damned. Welcome to the United States of Twitter!! Godspeed, Jim Boeheim!! I believe Joe Paterno had, and has, the right for the facts to come out, and to defend himself in light of the facts. Nothing short of that is acceptable in our society... KC, I was relating Boeheim's statement of support for Fine to Paterno's initial, and of course, eminently regrettable, statement that, as awful as the allegations may be, we have to wait for our system of justice to run it's course before rendering judgment. That arrogant prick! How dare Joe Paterno, in light of such horrific allegations, have the unmitigated gall to suggest that our system of justice and law even need be applied to such awful people! Really, the whole Penn State Administration should be renditioned to Yemen, or maybe Iraq, where we can utilize our full arsenal of truth finding capabilities on these so called people. Nothing less than that should even be considered when it comes to crimes against children! KC, you are so right. There are some accusations that are so.....horrible, that those accused of them should be mocked and dismissed for even suggesting their innocence. After all, that is precisely what the Constitution allows for, and, as TC says, "most likely the facts did come out and were kept in house by Penn State". Well, that settles it! We should start a law firm, Rolover and Dye LLC! We would never, ever, you know, like ever, question the findings of the prosecution, because that is precisely what people who have already been convicted by social media try so disgustingly to do, insist that they are innocent! Ooooh KC, that really boils my blood.... Your choice of language reveals the flaw in your logic. No one is attempting "immediate and total destruction by popular fiat" of Joe Paterno. No one has been "convicted" of anything (yet), in social media or otherwise, certainly not Joe Paterno. You speak of Paterno having "the right for the facts to come out, and to defend himself in light of the facts." A legal right, in legal proceedings? Yes. But we're not talking about legal proceedings in Paterno's case. Senior university officials serve at the pleasure of the president and the board. Their termination, while stipulated by contract, does not require any evidence or wrongdoing. "In our society," we have decided that the burden of proof in criminal cases should be very high. In civil cases, that burden is lower. In the firing of coaches, there is no burden at all - an administration need only decide that it is "looking to go in a different direction." There's usually some underlying reason; losing to your rival one too many times, say, or failing to kiss sufficient ass with wealthy donors and trustees. But there need not be any evidence of wrongdoing. And no, you don't get to wait for "the facts to come out" and then "defend yourself in light of the facts." You get your pink slip and go on your way, subject to the terms in your contract. To put it another way, using what I think is a useful analogy: the Navy has fired 21 commanding officers this year. The most recent was for "poor personnel management." Another was for a "pervasive pattern of unprofessional behavior" among his subordinates. More often than not, though, the phrase used is "a loss of confidence in his ability to command." That comes up again and again.The Penn State Board of Trustees lost confidence in Joe Paterno's ability to command. That is the standard, and it comes with the job. It is not any less fair than if he had been fired for losing to Ohio State one too many times.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 19, 2011 2:13:37 GMT -5
The only solution is to fire Boeheim and destroy the Syracuse program just like the program at Penn State. Quid Pro Quo, Clarice or is it an eye for an eye.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 19, 2011 2:17:51 GMT -5
One more thing... I assume it is still true today, but I know that historically, ESPN was loaded with Syracuse grads. Some of you may know of The S. I. Newhouse School of Public Communications at Syracuse U. OK, we all hate the Orange, but objectively, Newhouse is highly regarded. Lots of their kids (and probably other 'Cuse alumni) got internships and jobs at ESPN. So there has always been a heavy 'Cuse orientation. (after spending 4 years in Syracuse, NY, Bristol CT doesn't look so bad) Yeah, they have one of the top journalism schools in the country. I was looking over at their board and they were even joking that 50% of ESPN is Syracuse grads. Syracuse will probably get a slap on the wrist while Penn State gets the media and internet death penalty because of the control that Syracuse has over ESPN.
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