miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,150
|
Post by miracles87 on Nov 19, 2011 11:14:40 GMT -5
Russky, the PSU Board acted in a completely legal, and in my view, regrettably gutless fashion when they fired Paterno, as opposed to putting him on leave. I believe they acted in such a fashion to try and tame the furor of public opinion, which has all but assigned co-conspirator status to Paterno in Sandusky's alleged crimes. Joe Paterno may well end up deserving these charges. Frankly, I am almost certain that, as these further facts come out, they will not accrue to Paterno's benefit. HOWEVER, I believe that, by all accounts, Joe Paterno is a decent man who has done much good in his 60 years at Penn State, and he is deserving of the facts, good or bad, or really awful, to emerge before judgment is rendered on the kind of person he is. I cannot believe you are really contesting the notion that practically every pundit in every rag across this great land, with some notable exceptions like Tom Boswell here at the Washington Post, have used the cover of the bonfire of the Twitterverse to render their own judgment based on one side of the story, without any meaningful light being shined by Paterno himself. My "Paterno Protocol" post was merely suggesting the natural course of events that will commence at Syracuse once we get the band back together, tune up our pitchforks, and light our torches. I hope and pray that Fine is innocent, and that Jim Boeheim has not been lugging a predator and his current prey around the Big East since 1980. I sure as hope that the actors at Syracuse receive the benefit of the doubt, and events are not forced by all of us with our instant OP-ED sections on our hips. As far as Joe, I believe there is still a small chance he is truly innocent of any cover up, and there is also the even smaller chance that he is the ringleader of an enormous Central Pennsylvania child molestation ring. See? I have an open mind! I think everyone should. Then, when the facts come out, have at it. Some on this board are apparently young or naive enough to accept without questioning the reported findings of Grand Juries and Prosecutions, well, sadly, many of them will learn the folly of that thinking during their own lives.
|
|
kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
|
Post by kchoya on Nov 19, 2011 11:32:08 GMT -5
Russky, the PSU Board acted in a completely legal, and in my view, regrettably gutless fashion when they fired Paterno, as opposed to putting him on leave. Well, that explains everything. You are simply wrong.
|
|
seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,670
|
Post by seaweed on Nov 19, 2011 12:48:56 GMT -5
I like miracles "Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the theater" approach to JoPa - sure, he tacitly allowed a rapist to use his status in the program as a magnate for young victims, but other than that he was a great guy and deserves our respect and his pension.
seems like the only guy you don't think deserves the 'benefit of the doubt' is the victim. why would the chance be 'even smaller' that JoPa was the focal point of a child molestation ring? we know he was in charge of the kingdom and we know he had knowledge that a grown man was, at the very least, horsing around naked in the showers of that kingdom with kids. if the king isn't held accountable then no victim is ever safe again and whether he peddled the flesh himself or not is irrelevant - he knew and did nothing with his power except protect the predator and that makes him guilty in the eyes of the law and god
the reaction in syracuse makes me sick - the entire community, led again by king boneheim, has circled its snow machines around the probable bad actor and everyone is making accusations against the victims without any actual knowledge. NOBODY who wasn't there knows what happened in those countless encounters, but Boneheim knew there were encounters, he knew his friend and lieutenant was spending a lot of time with these young kids and giving them more attention and benefit than others - he has a legal duty to inquire and report - he does nothing except publicly state that the victims are in fact con men. shame on you coach, shame on your minions who have so muddied the waters with hate of these people who have come forward and shame on anyone here who is not demanding the highest level of accountability not for the victims but for those in power who protect and insulate the (alleged) predators.
we have seen this pattern again and again - innocent victim makes allegation and the people who are supposed to support victims pillory them instead out of loyalty to the bad guys who are otherwise such nice guys. whether the name on the jacket says Penn State, SUck or some local CYO, this notion that kids come forward with allegations like this simply out of greed is rarely the defining theme. sick Editeds abusing kids - that's what it's about
the way it works is the accuser is given a full and fair hearing. that is not what boneheim and his pals are letting happen - they, the kings, have acquitted the predator and convicted the prey prior to the hearing.
when will we learn that winning is the least important role a coach has? this goes beyond a deflated basketball - this thing we do, college sports, is about taking in kids at an innocent and vulnerable time and leading them forward into life. if you can do no better than use them, victimize them as tools for either your greed or your lust, you fail.
|
|
|
Post by LizziebethHoya on Nov 19, 2011 13:23:13 GMT -5
I think this passage from FoxSports is worth repeating: "With the Sandusky case, we had an 18-month investigation that ended in a grand jury indictment. We had a 23-page grand jury report that provided vivid, corroborative details for various sexual abuse allegations by Sandusky against eight alleged victims. We had a case cut-and-dry enough to end the Penn State tenure of the longtime football head coach Paterno and university president Graham Spanier. This is not what we have at Syracuse. What we have here is a whole lot of grays, a murky stew of facts and falsehoods that we’re only beginning to digest. In the end, it will either be another horrific instance of a college coach taking sexual advantage of star-struck young boys, or two men committing a vengeful, lie-filled character assassination on the currently longest-serving assistant coach in NCAA basketball. Either outcome will sicken us. But unlike the Sandusky case, this is not the end of a long, thorough investigative process. And what we need to do — difficult as it may sound — is take a deep breath, avoid jumping to conclusions, and wait for the police investigation, still in its earliest stages, to be completed." msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/bernie-fine-syracuse-orange-basketball-sexual-abuse-allegations-not-like-penn-state-scandal-right-now-111811
|
|
RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,619
|
Post by RusskyHoya on Nov 19, 2011 14:32:48 GMT -5
HOWEVER, I believe that, by all accounts, Joe Paterno is a decent man who has done much good in his 60 years at Penn State, and he is deserving of the facts, good or bad, or really awful, to emerge before judgment is rendered on the kind of person he is. The job of the Board of Trustees is not to render judgment "on the kind of person he is." It is to determine whether he should be the head coach of the football team. Their view, based on the available evidence, was that he no longer should. Was part of the reasoning the desire to "tame public opinion?" Undoubtedly. But that is precisely one of the things a Board of Trustees is charged with - maintaining the University's reputation and good name. They are under no obligation to wait until every 'i' is dotted and every 't' is crossed. The damage caused to the school's reputation was only going to increase with every passing day that Paterno remained at the helm. For once, the university administration acted in the best interests of the school and not of Joe Paterno. I cannot believe you are really contesting the notion that practically every pundit in every rag across this great land, with some notable exceptions like Tom Boswell here at the Washington Post, have used the cover of the bonfire of the Twitterverse to render their own judgment based on one side of the story, without any meaningful light being shined by Paterno himself. I think "the bonfire of the Twitterverse" is pretty dang irrelevant when you have a graphic and detailed 23-page grand jury report, based on a year and a half of investigation, with testimony from numerous witnesses. Both the media and the Board of Trustees have no need to "use the cover" of what people are saying on Twitter to make up their minds. The evidence rather speaks for itself. As for light being shined by Paterno himself, he has himself admitted that he should have done more. That admission speaks volumes. More importantly, if Paterno wanted to shine "meaningful light" on what transpired, he has always been free to. Nothing has been preventing Paterno from telling his version of events, whether to the Board of Trustees, the media, or anyone else. If Paterno wanted to speak, no one would stopped him. That he has not is his choice alone. Some on this board are apparently young or naive enough to accept without questioning the reported findings of Grand Juries and Prosecutions, well, sadly, many of them will learn the folly of that thinking during their own lives. Grand jury findings and prosecutorial arguments can be wrong or unconvincing - that is for a jury to decide. Juries can be wrong too, for that matter. But that is a question of criminal proceedings. In the question of the continued employment of Joe Paterno as head football coach at PSU, the jury is the Board of Trustees. They found the grand jury report, along with whatever other information they have and factors they considered, to be sufficient grounds for dismissal. Whether there is a chance that Sandusky might be acquitted or some of the facts in the report are wrong is irrelevant - there are few things in life that can be known with 100% certainty. That's why the Board is empowered to use its judgment in making these kinds of calls. They are under no obligation to wait the many months, possibly years, it will take for legal proceedings and appeals to run their course. They are under an obligation to do what's best for Penn State University, and that's what they did.
|
|
miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,150
|
Post by miracles87 on Nov 19, 2011 17:12:41 GMT -5
Russki, I believe Penn State's Board did nothing but cower in the face of breathless mob-fueled, "He's a witch, burn him, burn him!" brickbats like those spewed by Seaweed in his comment above. Again, at this point, you simply cannot say with any certainty what Paterno heard, was told or knew. Institutions such as Penn State do themselves a great injustice when they act without full knowledge of the situation on which they were acting. As far as the notion that " For once, the university administration acted in the best interests of the school and not of Joe Paterno." I submit to you that is another statement unsupportable by fact. As one of the most successful programs in College Football, one that reportedly is the third most profitable in the country as well, it would seem that the typical decisions that were made by Paterno and Penn State were in fact beneficial for all parties involved. If you are making a backward comment that supposes, at least this time, Penn State did not act on Paterno's will to continue attempting to cover up Sandusky's actions, and fired him to finally put their interests above his, I would argue that the basis for all of the anti-Paterno sentiment stems from the notion that he lead a school wide cover up that included the AD and the President. They were all acting, if our worst fears our confirmed, in concert. So, again, at every step of the way, Penn State is judged to be acting in the most expedient fashion, not necessarily in it's own best interest. I might even argue that, since Paterno did in fact take McQueary up the ladder to the administration, it was their actions that were ultimately harmful to Paterno, not the other way around.
Russki, other than Paterno being told by McQueary something, it is not yet known precisely what, about the shower incident, there is absolutely nothing in the 23 page Grand Jury report about Joe Paterno. Nothing. So, I guess I'll leave it to KCHoya and Seaweed and all of the other mind readers and soothsayers to divine what precisely was said, and how involved Joe was in these events, as even McQueary himself has contradicted those findings in recent public e-mails. On second thought, I'll wait until the truth comes out.
I agree that the veracity of Grand Jury proceedings and prosecutions are best left to juries and judges. As well as a thorough examination from the defense. As to whether the Board of Trustees ultimately acted in their best self-interest by running Joe Paterno out of town due to the righteous screeching of the masses, or if they harmed themselves by pre-judging and devaluing what had been their greatest asset, only time can tell. One thing is for sure, the simple fact that public opinion can be rendered without a full hearing of fact does not make it right, just because the board wasn't held to the rigorous standard of a criminal jury doesn't mean it cannot be wrong, or that the consequences of their mistakes is less costly. This is precisely what is so jarring and unpleasant about the immediate universal condemnation of Joe Paterno in this case. The masses act with great emotion and power in the immediacy of a release of information so troubling and disturbing, but will they right any wrongs when and if they are proven wrong? Or will they have moved on to the next situation that requires a mindless groundswell. Oh well, as these last couple days of relaxing tension relieving chat on the HoyaSaxa boards have proven, the burden of proof is on the accused, and that is just fine with the accusers.
|
|
kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
|
Post by kchoya on Nov 19, 2011 19:02:07 GMT -5
Russki, I believe Penn State's Board did nothing but cower in the face of breathless mob-fueled, "He's a witch, burn him, burn him!" brickbats like those spewed by Seaweed in his comment above. Again, at this point, you simply cannot say with any certainty what Paterno heard, was told or knew. Institutions such as Penn State do themselves a great injustice when they act without full knowledge of the situation on which they were acting. As far as the notion that " For once, the university administration acted in the best interests of the school and not of Joe Paterno." I submit to you that is another statement unsupportable by fact. As one of the most successful programs in College Football, one that reportedly is the third most profitable in the country as well, it would seem that the typical decisions that were made by Paterno and Penn State were in fact beneficial for all parties involved. If you are making a backward comment that supposes, at least this time, Penn State did not act on Paterno's will to continue attempting to cover up Sandusky's actions, and fired him to finally put their interests above his, I would argue that the basis for all of the anti-Paterno sentiment stems from the notion that he lead a school wide cover up that included the AD and the President. They were all acting, if our worst fears our confirmed, in concert. So, again, at every step of the way, Penn State is judged to be acting in the most expedient fashion, not necessarily in it's own best interest. I might even argue that, since Paterno did in fact take McQueary up the ladder to the administration, it was their actions that were ultimately harmful to Paterno, not the other way around. Russki, other than Paterno being told by McQueary something, it is not yet known precisely what, about the shower incident, there is absolutely nothing in the 23 page Grand Jury report about Joe Paterno. Nothing. So, I guess I'll leave it to KCHoya and Seaweed and all of the other mind readers and soothsayers to divine what precisely was said, and how involved Joe was in these events, as even McQueary himself has contradicted those findings in recent public e-mails. On second thought, I'll wait until the truth comes out. I agree that the veracity of Grand Jury proceedings and prosecutions are best left to juries and judges. As well as a thorough examination from the defense. As to whether the Board of Trustees ultimately acted in their best self-interest by running Joe Paterno out of town due to the righteous screeching of the masses, or if they harmed themselves by pre-judging and devaluing what had been their greatest asset, only time can tell. One thing is for sure, the simple fact that public opinion can be rendered without a full hearing of fact does not make it right, just because the board wasn't held to the rigorous standard of a criminal jury doesn't mean it cannot be wrong, or that the consequences of their mistakes is less costly. This is precisely what is so jarring and unpleasant about the immediate universal condemnation of Joe Paterno in this case. The masses act with great emotion and power in the immediacy of a release of information so troubling and disturbing, but will they right any wrongs when and if they are proven wrong? Or will they have moved on to the next situation that requires a mindless groundswell. Oh well, as these last couple days of relaxing tension relieving chat on the HoyaSaxa boards have proven, the burden of proof is on the accused, and that is just fine with the accusers. deleted Paterno was told Sandusky was in the showers on a Friday night with a 10-year-old and was "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature" to the boy. And Paterno did nothing other than tell his AD? Paterno had to be fired. I'm not going to pull an RDF and say you're in favor of child molestation. But good god... And are you TRULY saying that the best interests of Ped State would have been served by allowing Paterno to stay because the football program brought a lot of money and publicity to the school? Wow!
|
|
miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,150
|
Post by miracles87 on Nov 19, 2011 22:54:38 GMT -5
Russki, KC, Seaweed, allow me to grab a hot culpa mea. Normally, I like culpas of mea with cream and sugar, but this I'll take straight up. In the last two weeks, I had not once come to the HoyaSaxa site to read the ongoing reaction to the Penn State scandal, simply because I could fill up on all of the unbelievable and apocalyptic horror available to me on TV and in print. Then, the Syracuse news hit, and I thought I would visit HoyaSaxa to check out the reaction. I immediately posted trying to creatively relate the two crises, with a pinch of the main ingredient that has been seeing me through these difficult times, a belief that, even if warranted to a degree, the public opinion as regards Joe Paterno in these matters was unnecessarily prejudicial and unfair. What I ended up posting, I honestly don't think was so off the mark, just a slightly sneering version of potential events unfolding at Syracuse, should events follow what I called the "Paterno Protocols". No biggie. However, it wasn't received well. Here's the culpa. I responded too stridently and defensively to the poor reception. While KC offers me a multiple choice of "moron" or "illiterate" without having the kindness to include "all of the above" or "shoot yourself in head", I don't believe we are truly at odds, or that I want KC to dislike me or me to dislike him. Not at all. I made a gratuitous comment about Seaweed's assertion that Paterno knowingly and actively allowed a rapist to exist. Unfortunately, I cannot argue that that is not possible. So, I apologize for my comment, Seaweed. I was out of line. As far as KC, I really do not think I said that Paterno should be above sanction for these alleged offenses because the football program is successful, I was just responding to Russki's comment that finally, Penn State was acting in it's best interest instead of doing what Paterno wanted to do. I was simply making the point that, usually, they were the same thing. Anyway, I would like to cool this down. I remain committed to the ideal that I will fight for the people and principles that I love, but I want to do it in a more positive fashion. Russki, I thank you for your detailed and thoughtful responses to my posts.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 20, 2011 1:25:11 GMT -5
What the media and internet lynch mob seem to overlook is the fact that the first reported (in 1998) incident went to the police, the state child welfare services and the district attorney. The police, state, child welfare services and district attorney (who mysteriously "disappeared" in 2005) all basically ignored the incident and report. And that incident didn't even involve Paterno.
The state of Pennsylvania, the police and the government are equally culpable.
People keep saying well if Paterno or Mike McQueary (who was more than just some grad assistant. He was the star quarterback for Penn State after Kerry Collins) went to the police it all would have turned out great. Well guess what, in 1998 that's what happened. The police, government and system failed the kids which is why Sandusky was allowed to run rampant.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,459
|
Post by TC on Nov 20, 2011 8:24:14 GMT -5
What the media and internet lynch mob seem to overlook is the fact that the first reported (in 1998) incident went to the police, the state child welfare services and the district attorney. The police, state, child welfare services and district attorney (who mysteriously "disappeared" in 2005) all basically ignored the incident and report. And that incident didn't even involve Paterno. I think that's the part of the story that absolutely no one believes.
|
|
seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,670
|
Post by seaweed on Nov 20, 2011 11:00:43 GMT -5
Miracles I thank you for taking another look at how this is unfolding, not here on Hoyatalk so much as out in the world. I came here today to post this link about how these stories end when allegations are not given a chance to develop whether from institutional resistance or incompetence or just the fact that they are very difficult allegations to prove: www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57325807-504083/texas-teen-ashley-billasano-details-years-of-sex-abuse-forced-prostitution-on-twitter-commits-suicide/Now I don't like the feeling of posting that kind of link in light of your reconsideration, but here is the thing, and it's not easy to talk through: I am wrapping up law school and remain largely committed to working in criminal defense because I think the system tends to overpower people who are often defenseless themselves. Unfortunately that means I will have to defend men like this who do these things - I am currently working with two particularly egregious cases, one of a man who raped his niece (12) and one of a man who filmed himself diddling young girls (4, 2 and 6). These men horrify me. What horrifies me more though is when the state abuses its power and fails to fight a fair fight, which starts with these types of people who everyone wants to see dead but it ends with pepper spraying students. I don't defend these types of crimes because I like the defendants - I do it to make sure the state fights fair. What depresses me more than overreaching state power though is a culture in which certain people in power are held to entirely different standards and, when they are accused of bad acts, the "people" pillory the victims. The fight can be lopsided already but I think it should occur in the courtroom after professional, full and honest investigation and the cultural wagon circling in these rare cases makes that difficult - Boneheim can't honestly answer police questions after the statement he made. As for their jobs and getting fired there is no need of complex adjudications - these are positions of high faith and trust and even the slightest hint of disgrace is enough that the bosses are entitled to move on to the next, hopefully more trustworthy appointee. Thank you again Miracle for revisiting these posts and i swear this post comes entirely from my own struggles with the place these types of people play in my chosen work, not even 1% "i told you so" going on. peace and 36 hours till HOYA BASKETBALL!
|
|
|
Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 20, 2011 13:00:30 GMT -5
|
|
EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
|
Post by EasyEd on Nov 20, 2011 19:29:25 GMT -5
Miracles I thank you for taking another look at how this is unfolding, not here on Hoyatalk so much as out in the world. I came here today to post this link about how these stories end when allegations are not given a chance to develop whether from institutional resistance or incompetence or just the fact that they are very difficult allegations to prove: www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57325807-504083/texas-teen-ashley-billasano-details-years-of-sex-abuse-forced-prostitution-on-twitter-commits-suicide/Now I don't like the feeling of posting that kind of link in light of your reconsideration, but here is the thing, and it's not easy to talk through: I am wrapping up law school and remain largely committed to working in criminal defense because I think the system tends to overpower people who are often defenseless themselves. Unfortunately that means I will have to defend men like this who do these things - I am currently working with two particularly egregious cases, one of a man who raped his niece (12) and one of a man who filmed himself diddling young girls (4, 2 and 6). These men horrify me. What horrifies me more though is when the state abuses its power and fails to fight a fair fight, which starts with these types of people who everyone wants to see dead but it ends with pepper spraying students. I don't defend these types of crimes because I like the defendants - I do it to make sure the state fights fair. What depresses me more than overreaching state power though is a culture in which certain people in power are held to entirely different standards and, when they are accused of bad acts, the "people" pillory the victims. The fight can be lopsided already but I think it should occur in the courtroom after professional, full and honest investigation and the cultural wagon circling in these rare cases makes that difficult - Boneheim can't honestly answer police questions after the statement he made. As for their jobs and getting fired there is no need of complex adjudications - these are positions of high faith and trust and even the slightest hint of disgrace is enough that the bosses are entitled to move on to the next, hopefully more trustworthy appointee. Thank you again Miracle for revisiting these posts and i swear this post comes entirely from my own struggles with the place these types of people play in my chosen work, not even 1% "i told you so" going on. peace and 36 hours till HOYA BASKETBALL! After trying to post a rational defense of your position, you then resort to passing judgement yourself by calling the coach of Syracuse Boneheim?
|
|
kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
|
Post by kchoya on Nov 20, 2011 20:28:43 GMT -5
Miracles I thank you for taking another look at how this is unfolding, not here on Hoyatalk so much as out in the world. I came here today to post this link about how these stories end when allegations are not given a chance to develop whether from institutional resistance or incompetence or just the fact that they are very difficult allegations to prove: www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57325807-504083/texas-teen-ashley-billasano-details-years-of-sex-abuse-forced-prostitution-on-twitter-commits-suicide/Now I don't like the feeling of posting that kind of link in light of your reconsideration, but here is the thing, and it's not easy to talk through: I am wrapping up law school and remain largely committed to working in criminal defense because I think the system tends to overpower people who are often defenseless themselves. Unfortunately that means I will have to defend men like this who do these things - I am currently working with two particularly egregious cases, one of a man who raped his niece (12) and one of a man who filmed himself diddling young girls (4, 2 and 6). These men horrify me. What horrifies me more though is when the state abuses its power and fails to fight a fair fight, which starts with these types of people who everyone wants to see dead but it ends with pepper spraying students. I don't defend these types of crimes because I like the defendants - I do it to make sure the state fights fair. What depresses me more than overreaching state power though is a culture in which certain people in power are held to entirely different standards and, when they are accused of bad acts, the "people" pillory the victims. The fight can be lopsided already but I think it should occur in the courtroom after professional, full and honest investigation and the cultural wagon circling in these rare cases makes that difficult - Boneheim can't honestly answer police questions after the statement he made. As for their jobs and getting fired there is no need of complex adjudications - these are positions of high faith and trust and even the slightest hint of disgrace is enough that the bosses are entitled to move on to the next, hopefully more trustworthy appointee. Thank you again Miracle for revisiting these posts and i swear this post comes entirely from my own struggles with the place these types of people play in my chosen work, not even 1% "i told you so" going on. peace and 36 hours till HOYA BASKETBALL! I don't understand the pepper spraying students reference.
|
|
|
Post by LizziebethHoya on Nov 21, 2011 15:31:14 GMT -5
|
|
kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
|
Post by kchoya on Nov 21, 2011 15:56:26 GMT -5
Shocker - Whitlock doesn't like something that ESPN did. Total blowhard.
|
|
seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,670
|
Post by seaweed on Nov 21, 2011 20:16:00 GMT -5
After trying to post a rational defense of your position, you then resort to passing judgement yourself by calling the coach of Syracuse Boneheim? Easy EasyEd - I have been calling him names long before any of this and am not about to stop now: he's a putz at best, an accessory at worst and as a die-hard Hoya I don't even notice it anymore. I bring it around to pepper-spray because it isn't about football, basketball or sex but violence - it's about abuse of power and that sickening video was also in an educational context, not Watt's riots but kids on campus after all, kid's to whom the grown-ups owed better.
|
|
hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,224
|
Post by hoyarooter on Nov 21, 2011 21:05:32 GMT -5
After trying to post a rational defense of your position, you then resort to passing judgement yourself by calling the coach of Syracuse Boneheim? Easy EasyEd - I have been calling him names long before any of this and am not about to stop now: he's a putz at best, an accessory at worst and as a die-hard Hoya I don't even notice it anymore. I bring it around to pepper-spray because it isn't about football, basketball or sex but violence - it's about abuse of power and that sickening video was also in an educational context, not Watt's riots but kids on campus after all, kid's to whom the grown-ups owed better. Not that this is on point at all, but the kids were just sitting around, and the cop sprayed them as though he were exterminating a bunch of roaches. Absolutely unbelievable.
|
|
kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
|
Post by kchoya on Nov 22, 2011 1:36:38 GMT -5
After trying to post a rational defense of your position, you then resort to passing judgement yourself by calling the coach of Syracuse Boneheim? Easy EasyEd - I have been calling him names long before any of this and am not about to stop now: he's a putz at best, an accessory at worst and as a die-hard Hoya I don't even notice it anymore. I bring it around to pepper-spray because it isn't about football, basketball or sex but violence - it's about abuse of power and that sickening video was also in an educational context, not Watt's riots but kids on campus after all, kid's to whom the grown-ups owed better. Where's the abuse of power by the state? Sounds like some law school idealism crap.
|
|
kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
|
Post by kchoya on Nov 22, 2011 1:37:34 GMT -5
|
|