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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 17, 2011 11:03:16 GMT -5
If this happens, Rutgers and West Virginia wouldn't be far behind. I think they both see the Big East becoming like the Big 12 and instead of dealing with a conference in survival mode, they're trying to get out now, which I don't blame them for doing. For us, this blows of course and it will be interesting to see what the university does to make sure we're still players when the smoke clears. However, we may need to begin thinking about our positioning in a new basketball only conference. Us, 'Nova, St. John's, DePaul, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, Xavier, Temple, Butler and some mix of GMU, VCU, ODU, Richmond, etc ... wouldn't be too shabby. We need to sure up that sort of conference. And then what would stop us from keeping consistent, year-in-and-year-out OOC games with Cuse, Pitt, UConn, ND, and WVU? I have to imagine that those schools see us as a draw in terms of basketball. Is there any precedent for home-and-away OOC scheduling? Two games a year against Cuse, one in November/December and one in mid-late January?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 17, 2011 11:05:55 GMT -5
There is no reason for us to even consider staying in a conference w any IA football schools. We must get away from that kryptonite forever. Even if a school isn't currently attractive to any bcs conference, that's all they will be looking to do. Let's get away from all football schools forever. I cannot disagree with you more. If you think Georgetown can compete for elite recruits and fill Verizon Center with teams like Dayton and St. Bonaventure, you might as well pack it in, call up the Patriot League and wish our coaches well into the NBA.
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tjm62
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Post by tjm62 on Sept 17, 2011 11:08:47 GMT -5
At the end of the day, college sports are all about the money, especially at the highest level. That money flows most freely at the highest levels of college football, and for a number of reasons, fielding a football team at that level isn't in the cards for Georgetown. It may take a number of years for these unwieldy conferences to arrange themselves in such a way that Georgetown is officially pushed out.
Frankly, I don't see much way around it. The Big East as currently constituted sure doesn't look very sustainable. I suppose we could do our best to block its devolution, but I'm already getting myself used to the idea of being part of a new sub-BCS conference .
As long as we are proactive and smart about it, I don't see it being the end of the world. First of all, basketball teams can be competitive from any conference, and certainly from the highest (currently-entitled) mid-majors. Yes, we would take a hit in recruiting, and would lose some exposure. This would make reaching the goal (another national championship) harder.
At the same time, there's no reason to think we would transition into the status of the current crop of mid-major teams. First, we have a history in both the NCAA and the NBA that would still help set Georgetown apart from its peers. As great as the Big East was/is, Georgetown is more than just a conference affiliation. Second, we could put together something that would be considerably better than a mid-major as we today know it. Frankly, a lot of teams are in a similar boat right now. If we aggressively court teams now, we could theoretically combine the remnants of the Big East with the best teams of the A-10 (an idea that has made the rounds on this board for years). Plenty of internal rivalries could make it a pretty damn competitive schedule. There are worse things to imagine than a conference featuring Georgetown, Villanova (I spend much of my time hoping their upgrade never materializes), Xavier, Dayton, Temple, Fordham, Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Memphis, Marquette, and maybe a few other quality programs (crush GW every year, anyone?)
Frankly, that would be an exciting, competitive conference featuring a lot of good teams with good programs. Meanwhile, we could have a more balanced conference schedule without all the headaches of playing the football tack-ons that don't draw much interest anyway (USF, Depaul, Cincinnati, TCU, etc.). To me, this looks like something closer to the Big East as it was originally constituted anyway.
With JTIII at the helm, our difficult out-of-conference games would shift away from playing teams like Memphis, Temple, or Kansas. Instead, we could keep alive much of the excitement we currently love by regularly scheduling Syracuse, Uconn, and our former Big East compadres. Given the attention, excitement, and press that those games get, I can't imagine the administrations of either school really trying to prevent that. Boeheim loves cupcakes, but is there any doubt fan outcry would demand such a matchup, and, more importantly, that he's on the way out anyway?
We have to have faith that Georgetown would be competitive anyway, which at the end of the day will come down to the coaching and caliber of players we can get. It can and will be possible for us to compete at the highest levels in a different conference. And if we fail for any reason, well, that can (and has) happened no matter our conference affiliation.
I tend to believe that if something is going to make people money, it's going to happen. Rather than cross our fingers and hope that the last few decades of Big East acrobatics somehow settle in our favor, it's time to grab the opportunity, start making plans on how to leave ourselves in the best position possible. Most importantly, we need the team to do great in the next few seasons to strengthen the program in the eyes of the kids/teenagers today that will be the basis of our continued success moving forward.
(on edit: I think many of us are on the same page here)
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Sept 17, 2011 11:10:45 GMT -5
If these power mega conferences are going to have 16 games themselves....i don't see them having the luxury of setting up home/away OOC games. Plus, Boeheim schedules more pansies then anyone.
I agree though, we'd have to do what we can to bolster our OOC schedule....much like Memphis does now.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Sept 17, 2011 11:16:12 GMT -5
All of this was 100% inevitable the day the ACC raided the Big East for Miami, BC and Tech. It was just a matter of time until it reached its inevitable conclusion. There still may be some time before it all works out, actually. But ultimately the Big East as we know it is going to pass. Sad, but inevitable.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Sept 17, 2011 11:29:55 GMT -5
All of this was 100% inevitable the day the ACC raided the Big East for Miami, BC and Tech. It was just a matter of time until it reached its inevitable conclusion. There still may be some time before it all works out, actually. But ultimately the Big East as we know it is going to pass. Sad, but inevitable. I don't think that's true at all. If you're looking for a cause, it is the NCAA refusing to take control of college football. If there was a playoff, this wouldn't be happening. But no matter. It's done. I know our administration has no vision. Hopefully, Thompson has a plan to grab schools like Villanova, Marquette, Xavier, etc. and build as strong as possible something in the interim.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Sept 17, 2011 11:40:48 GMT -5
BE needs to have or perhaps still can up the fee for leaving the conference ours is 5 million ACC's is 30 million. BE needs to impose something like a 50 million buy out. The ridiculous thing is that in a couple years the BE could be better positioned than the ACC, but now we'll probably never know. If they just had faith they could get everything they want from the BE. Never going to happen because none of the football schools want this league to persist. All of them have their eye on moving elsewhere. Pitt and Cuse, obviously. West Virginia's AD, Luck, has been angling to get into the SEC or ACC for a while. Strong desire to go to the ACC or Big 10 is pretty much unanimous at Rutgers. I think ESPN has a vested interest in this. They gave the ACC a fat contract a year or two ago. The Big East's contract is looming. Much cheaper for them to see the top BE teams go to the ACC than to shell out for a whole new contract. Big East destruction is in their financial interest. While the Big East would be hit very hard by defection of Cuse and Pitt... where does anybody else go? Possible that WVU could be called upon to be SEC's #14, or that the ACC would go all the way up to 16 (with some combo of RU/UConn/WVU on top of Pitt/Cuse). But none of that's solid. And if the ACC starts the arms race to 16, that might have other repercussions (such as the SEC poaching some ACC schools). Also, the Big 12 is still precarious, with OU and UT potentially deciding on their future on Monday. If those 2, TexTech and OSU head for the PAC 12 (16), that leaves 5 B12 schools homeless (Mizzou, KU, KSU, ISU, Baylor). If that happens and the ACC stops at 14, you could see a BE/B12 merger-- KU, KSU, Baylor, ISU, Mizzou, RU, Cincy, USF, WVU, UConn, Louisville, TCU would be the 12 team football conference. Figure one of those teams (Mizzou or WVU most likely) gets poached by the SEC so the SEC has an even 14, and the Big East picks up one mid-major football team out of UCF, ECU, Houston, or Memphis to round out the league. 20 schools, 12 football. If the ACC or SEC goes up to 16--which could happen quick if the PAC does it--or if the Big 10 makes a move, then forget the above.
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Sept 17, 2011 11:44:29 GMT -5
ESPN is reporting that that ISU and Baylor are courting the Big East should the Big 12 collapse. Not sure what that means for Georgetown's position should that take place. Not sure why WVU hasn't made a move yet with arguably the best of the football programs.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Sept 17, 2011 11:47:45 GMT -5
All of this was 100% inevitable the day the ACC raided the Big East for Miami, BC and Tech. It was just a matter of time until it reached its inevitable conclusion. There still may be some time before it all works out, actually. But ultimately the Big East as we know it is going to pass. Sad, but inevitable. I don't think that's true at all. If you're looking for a cause, it is the NCAA refusing to take control of college football. If there was a playoff, this wouldn't be happening. But no matter. It's done. I know our administration has no vision. Hopefully, Thompson has a plan to grab schools like Villanova, Marquette, Xavier, etc. and build as strong as possible something in the interim. The NCAA has no power. It's an association of schools, not like a commissioners office. If there was some sort of central governing body to prevent all of these money driven moves, it'd be great, but there's not. ESPN has many times more control over college sports than the NCAA. And the ACC raid a few years back was the first sign that conference loyalty meant nothing anymore, it was all about maximizing tv revenue, bowl payouts, etc. I think "vision of the administration" stuff is overplayed. Do you think "vision" was stopping any of this? "Vision" doesn't stop us from mid-majordom. A new practice facility would be great, but either way our league is not going to be looked at as elite anymore. A multi-million dollar practice facility isn't drawing fans to Verizon Center on a Wednesday to watch us play Providence, Seton Hall, Depaul or whoever else we end up with.
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Bay99
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Post by Bay99 on Sept 17, 2011 11:52:11 GMT -5
What a shock that Syracuse is one of the two schools pulling the pin on the Big East grenade. Because when I think of Syracuse, I think of words like integrity, honesty, loyalty, and class.
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Sept 17, 2011 12:02:20 GMT -5
I don't know what we will do. I don't know what our options are.
However, I think the best strategy right now is to do whatever we can to make sure we stay together with the other big Catholic basketball schools. A coalition of us, Nova, Marquette, ND (because they will never give up their independent football status), and Providence (for traditions sake) will at least give us some semblance of clout wherever we end up.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Sept 17, 2011 12:15:26 GMT -5
Can't part from SJU either....we need MSG and a conference tournament to always be in the mix.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Sept 17, 2011 12:16:07 GMT -5
What a shock that Syracuse is one of the two schools pulling the pin on the Big East grenade. Because when I think of Syracuse, I think of words like integrity, honesty, loyalty, and class. And thousands of semi-literate morons now enjoying their conference tournament in Greensboro. Good luck with that.
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Sept 17, 2011 12:18:07 GMT -5
Can't part from SJU either....we need MSG and a conference tournament to always be in the mix. Unintentional omission!
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Sept 17, 2011 12:19:49 GMT -5
I think a coalition of the non-football Big East basketball schools would be a logical step and the likely result if the Big East collapses. I'd imagine such a conference might seek a few other schools with good basketball programs, as well.
A better result for Georgetown would be staying in a BCS conference, but if the Big East collapses, I don't think that's palatable. It's hard to see any of the other BCS conferences taking non I-A football schools.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Sept 17, 2011 12:24:35 GMT -5
Well, I am kind of glad it finally happened. The ACC is being proactive again and they are doing the right thing. They know the SEC cannot stop with just adding A&M and for sure the SEC will taking at least one ACC member - Clemson, FSU, etc. I do not blame the ACC at all, this is about survival and the BE & B12 both cannot survive. I would assume RU and UConn will be applying to either the B10 or ACC very shortly. WVU may try to be that SEC #14.
Meanwhile, Georgetown needs to do what it did when starting the Big East. Call Nova and SJU and hold firm together. It will be interesting because there will be the pull to join Kansas, K-state, Baylor and the remains of the BE in a hybrid football/basketball conference but also a very sound rationale for going with a basketball-only conference. I actually think I would prefer a Super A10 basketball only conference which is stable and small enough to create real rivalries that the Big 16 conferences will not be able to match.
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hoya95
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Post by hoya95 on Sept 17, 2011 12:24:50 GMT -5
As ridiculous and shameful as all this is, something called the "Big East" will probably add schools like Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri etc. No reason why it can't still be a great basketball conference. And it'll still have football games that most people don't care about, but ESPN, etc. will still pay a fortune for. I'm assuming most everyone has taken a look at this by now: www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/10/the-shame-of-college-sports/8643/Not that I needed any convincing, but it's good to know that college sports have always been a greedy mess.
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Sept 17, 2011 12:25:22 GMT -5
cuse and pitt repoerted to apply to acc just now on cnn OUCH
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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Sept 17, 2011 12:28:27 GMT -5
This is so ridiculous. I don't like it at all a historic basketball rivalry is being thrown out the window because of this! Even if we play Cuse out of conference it won't be the same.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Sept 17, 2011 12:50:15 GMT -5
From a business perspective on the football side, Syracuse doesn't add much to the ACC aside from adding one more team in the ultimate quest toward 16. It's not like Syracuse football is a powerhouse or Syracuse will bring in all sorts of television revenue.
The problem is that this really is a numbers game - the ACC wants to ensure its survival by boosting its numbers and getting closer to 16. Adding more teams also makes it easier for the ACC if any of its teams leave for other conferences.
There simply isn't room for the ACC and Big East if the other conferences go up to 16. The ACC has always had an advantage because it doesn't have 8 non-football schools like the Big East. The Big East could have survived over the ACC if it was pro-active enough in seeking out expansion options, but that is looking increasingly unlikely.
I hope the Big East does survive in some form, but the damage is certainly done...and the ACC's basketball program will improve with this move.
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