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Post by hoyas big supporter on Jul 22, 2011 12:25:46 GMT -5
RDF sure must have been disappointed in that Jeff Green guy who settled for GU. And we all know how much you loved Austin Freeman who committed early. And you must have been disappointed in Wright who settled on GU after decommitting from NC State. I think broad generalizations like "we don't want kids who only want to be closer to home" are moronic. It's got to be a case by case basis. If JT3 stops recruiting DMV as you say, I think that would be a much bigger problem than not. Bad logic. If a kid wants to be closer to home, maybe it shows he's a good kid. Again, case by case. There is a very interesting concept for some of you--it's called the ability to comprehend what is being written. If you are incapable and prove to be that way--just bypass responding. Since you want to jump in and ACT like you knew what was being said--then I'll set what was being said in a clearer way for you to understand: 1. Nowhere did I say to quit recruiting kids from the area. 2. Kids wanting to come to Georgetown locally because they think they can win and because they are winning are 2 different things. 3. The players you mentioned above all came to be a part of or start something in Jeff Green, Tyler Crawford, Roy Hibbert's case along with Wallace and PE JR, etc..... 4. Freeman and Wright stated they felt they could compete/win a National title at Georgetown. 5. Greg Whittington has stated he wanted to come because it was a program he felt he could develop and compete to win championships. All of that is what you are looking for. There have been SEVERAL and ARE SEVERAL players who Georgetown wastes time recruiting, attends their games during live period, wants to keep "good standing" with them, etc... and these guys are using Georgetown as a "last resort/fallback" option. Those guys need to be eliminated and it's more important for the program to get players from wherever that want/believe to come to the program. Otherwise, you lose out on several players instead of just one local guy who really didn't want to come--he just knew he had a place if his "preferred" offers didn't happen or he was bypassed by those schools. Make sense? I see your point RDF, but how do you differentiate between players who are genuinely interested and those who just say they are? Same could be said for non-locals who keep Georgetown as a "backup" because of its academic prowess, but never actually intend to attend a school that has a rigorous courseload. Every recruit in the nation lists schools that they aren't really interested in simply for "political" reasons. Big East schools to attract interest from other schools in the league, same with every other major conference. That's the trick with recruiting. That's the point. These kid's moods change all the time, what coaches say to them on the recruiting trail actually plays a part, nevermind how minimal, in their thought processes. A player could already have a clear favorite for years, but until they go through the recruiting process and take visits and stuff nothing is certain. Now unless you have some brain thought entering device that you're not telling me about then there is no reason to see the recruitment of a kid, say like Nate Britt, in the same light as how a recruitment of a player like Quinn Cook played out. History can be rewritten. Yes there can be trends, but these things have the ability to change.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jul 22, 2011 13:25:19 GMT -5
There is a very interesting concept for some of you--it's called the ability to comprehend what is being written. If you are incapable and prove to be that way--just bypass responding. Since you want to jump in and ACT like you knew what was being said--then I'll set what was being said in a clearer way for you to understand: 1. Nowhere did I say to quit recruiting kids from the area. 2. Kids wanting to come to Georgetown locally because they think they can win and because they are winning are 2 different things. 3. The players you mentioned above all came to be a part of or start something in Jeff Green, Tyler Crawford, Roy Hibbert's case along with Wallace and PE JR, etc..... 4. Freeman and Wright stated they felt they could compete/win a National title at Georgetown. 5. Greg Whittington has stated he wanted to come because it was a program he felt he could develop and compete to win championships. All of that is what you are looking for. There have been SEVERAL and ARE SEVERAL players who Georgetown wastes time recruiting, attends their games during live period, wants to keep "good standing" with them, etc... and these guys are using Georgetown as a "last resort/fallback" option. Those guys need to be eliminated and it's more important for the program to get players from wherever that want/believe to come to the program. Otherwise, you lose out on several players instead of just one local guy who really didn't want to come--he just knew he had a place if his "preferred" offers didn't happen or he was bypassed by those schools. Make sense? While your condescending tone is much more noticeable than any facts, your premise is not logical. Basically, you're saying that as long as the kids who come to Georgetown say they want to compete once they get here that they are worth recruiting. Well, I argue that every recruit who Georgetown recruits, local or not, will say say they want to compete for a championship once they are signed. So recruit them all. Unless you can predict the future, there is no way of knowing which recruits are "saying" they take Georgetown seriously and which really do. If they show interest, recruit. So, no your argument doesn't make sense. Mine does. The facts are what was/wasn't said and your implication that I didn't want Green, Wright, or Freeman. All were kids I am happy Georgetown signed and didn't lead anyone on in their recruitment. TGod is correct--same thing can be applied to national guys too--there are some who list Georgetown due to wanting to make their parents happy thinking they really take education seriously, some list them based on fact their parents want them to play for an African American coach, some list them because their favorite player (Iverson) attended, and some have no clue as to what Georgetown is like--academically, socially, etc..... and drop them when they find out--but keep listing them because they can't say no--(which if you have been recruited know it's hard to tell someone no--until you do and realize it's both ways and have the coach who was kissing your ass immediately hang up and onto the next one) The point in recruiting is you have to cast wide net, have people under you that are organized and you trust. If they say we need this guy, this guy isn't coming, this guy is interested, etc...the coach has to be able to believe in them and trust them instead of chasing ghosts. Recruiting is about small success in industry of failure. You will never get a "perfect class". Nobody gets everyone they want--and it's about not wasting time. Especially with limited access to actually watch people play during the developmental months-Spring-Summer prior to their HS seasons. Someone brought up Kyle Anderson--of course you stay involved--that is a kid that the HC has recruited since his FR season. You made the final list of schools and he openly admits he is a UNC basketball fan and his favorite player is Allen Iverson. Does that matter in his decision making process? No. You hear rumors positive and negative for the Hoyas chances--but you stay in that because of the fact the kid has maintained interest and shown it. Some recruits make it obvious who they like/dont' like. When guys speak to media-do they speak about things they like about the program or in generalities and generic answers that just are saying "I'm not going there...." which leads to Hoyas being listed just to make someone happy or because they appreciate the attention coach gave them and even more disgusting it's got to do with a shoe company influence for having a school make the cut. Ask yourself this--how many times do you see a Georgetown recruit turn them down worried about "depth" but go to another school that is loaded and mention the "talent around me...we can win....." why does that take place? Then another kid locally will be like "Georgetown is great....close to home.....nice coach..."and then Duke enters picture "Duke just called--my life is now complete". (obvious embelishment but you get the point) Difference? III and Georgetown went to Final Four when most of these kids started to pay attention to the sport. He's produced wins over the "Royalty" of CBB and is in best basketball conference in the country. An offer from Georgetown should matter and not be a fallback option and until the program starts acting in a manner where it's "You've got an offer, we would love to have you--but we've got other options we'll take if you wait" instead of chasing guys who want to upgrade their status, then you'll continue to be treated that way/perceived in that manner. All I'm saying is that I hope we hear of more local guys talking of of the program like Whittington, Starks, etc...and less of the acting like Georgetown isn't "good enough" for them and Nationally the program is seen in a lot more impressive manner then it is locally--due to AAU clowns who actually think that people care about their wins/losses instead of what actually matters which is player development. They hide behind the "we're giving guys exposure to coaches.." whenever challenged but the fact these guys act like winning some event with an area all star team matters is laughable. Nobody can tell you about the '07 Peach Jam Final Four. Coaches go to see players compete against other elite players--and too many of these guys act like they matter and when they realize they don't-they push agendas into young people they have more access with's minds. It's why locally Georgetown is seen how they are and when Georgetown goes into living room of Kyle Anderson--they get respected far more. Don't blame the kids--but don't want to waste time with them either. If it's not "Cool" to play at Georgetown--then give them their wise and find some who think it is! That is how III built this program back up and why this current FR class has chance to do same. Again--I take full responsibility for being a jackass about Jabril Trawick. That kid is everything you want in a player in terms of commitment, attitude, and leadership. I was caught up in losing Christmas and Johnson and went off about that and I apologize to Trawick, program, fans, you name it. I was 100000000000% WRONG. For that I deserve criticism and feel dumb for ignoring what I believe which is players are everywhere, you can't get caught up in 2 guys, etc....but fell for the "Hoyas are leading for these guys" angle which as we know is not true until they actually sign on the dotted line. Just don't want to see Hoyas make same mistake that I did last Summer in getting caught up with crap that doesn't matter and ignoring some great kids who would be assets to the program.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Jul 22, 2011 13:41:54 GMT -5
The following words appeared exactly as I have reproduced them below in RDF's two most recent posts. RDF - seriously, how can possibly defend this line of thinking???
"Jeff Green was incapable of competing for a National title at Georgetown because his ACT score was not competitive, in concept his heart needed a bypass as a last resort, he quit winning, and he preferred to jump in the local waste of Roy Green."
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Jul 22, 2011 14:11:46 GMT -5
All I'm saying is that I hope we hear of more local guys talking of of the program like Whittington, Starks, etc...and less of the acting like Georgetown isn't "good enough" for them and Nationally the program is seen in a lot more impressive manner then it is locally--due to AAU clowns who actually think that people care about their wins/losses instead of what actually matters which is player development. They hide behind the "we're giving guys exposure to coaches.." whenever challenged but the fact these guys act like winning some event with an area all star team matters is laughable. Nobody can tell you about the '07 Peach Jam Final Four. Coaches go to see players compete against other elite players--and too many of these guys act like they matter and when they realize they don't-they push agendas into young people they have more access with's minds. It's why locally Georgetown is seen how they are and when Georgetown goes into living room of Kyle Anderson--they get respected far more. Don't blame the kids--but don't want to waste time with them either. If it's not "Cool" to play at Georgetown--then give them their wise and find some who think it is! That is how III built this program back up and why this current FR class has chance to do same. Again--I take full responsibility for being a jackass about Jabril Trawick. That kid is everything you want in a player in terms of commitment, attitude, and leadership. I was caught up in losing Christmas and Johnson and went off about that and I apologize to Trawick, program, fans, you name it. I was 100000000000% WRONG. For that I deserve criticism and feel dumb for ignoring what I believe which is players are everywhere, you can't get caught up in 2 guys, etc....but fell for the "Hoyas are leading for these guys" angle which as we know is not true until they actually sign on the dotted line. Just don't want to see Hoyas make same mistake that I did last Summer in getting caught up with crap that doesn't matter and ignoring some great kids who would be assets to the program. This is an interesting point if you look at the last couple of classes. You get Nate from MA, Jabril from Philly, Otto from MO, Tyler from MS, Bolden from (initially SC), and a lot of the guys we're linked with in later classes are from out of the area.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Jul 22, 2011 14:48:33 GMT -5
All I'm saying is that I hope we hear of more local guys talking of of the program like Whittington, Starks, etc...and less of the acting like Georgetown isn't "good enough" for them and Nationally the program is seen in a lot more impressive manner then it is locally--due to AAU clowns who actually think that people care about their wins/losses instead of what actually matters which is player development. They hide behind the "we're giving guys exposure to coaches.." whenever challenged but the fact these guys act like winning some event with an area all star team matters is laughable. Nobody can tell you about the '07 Peach Jam Final Four. Coaches go to see players compete against other elite players--and too many of these guys act like they matter and when they realize they don't-they push agendas into young people they have more access with's minds. It's why locally Georgetown is seen how they are and when Georgetown goes into living room of Kyle Anderson--they get respected far more. Don't blame the kids--but don't want to waste time with them either. If it's not "Cool" to play at Georgetown--then give them their wise and find some who think it is! That is how III built this program back up and why this current FR class has chance to do same. Again--I take full responsibility for being a jackass about Jabril Trawick. That kid is everything you want in a player in terms of commitment, attitude, and leadership. I was caught up in losing Christmas and Johnson and went off about that and I apologize to Trawick, program, fans, you name it. I was 100000000000% WRONG. For that I deserve criticism and feel dumb for ignoring what I believe which is players are everywhere, you can't get caught up in 2 guys, etc....but fell for the "Hoyas are leading for these guys" angle which as we know is not true until they actually sign on the dotted line. Just don't want to see Hoyas make same mistake that I did last Summer in getting caught up with crap that doesn't matter and ignoring some great kids who would be assets to the program. This is an interesting point if you look at the last couple of classes. You get Nate from MA, Jabril from Philly, Otto from MO, Tyler from MS, Bolden from (initially SC), and a lot of the guys we're linked with in later classes are from out of the area. Aaron from FL as well. Excellent point. So many guys from my high school used Holy Cross as their safety school that after a several years, Holy Cross stopped accepting anyone from my HS (a Jesuit prep in NYC). That would be a bit extreme in our case. Add Hopkins, Markel, Moses and Greg back on to chep's list and you get two ideas that are neither mutually inclusive nor exclusive: Get the best kids to fill the needs of your program The DC metro area has a lot of talented kids As chep notes, we have been casting an impressively wide net lately. I'll trust the staff to know when/if they're being jerked around and hopefully to have learned from previous instances. I would hope that is one of the things Broadus can help with.
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Jul 22, 2011 14:58:14 GMT -5
I always hoped Georgetown would take a more national approach to recruiting and if the tide is turning that way for good, I'm not mad.
The way Georgetown is viewed locally by a lot of people is mind-boggling and while you still cast as wide a net as possible, I would love to see a larger presence in Philly, NY/NJ, Detroit, Chicago, Texas, ATL, etc ... RDF is right and I'm tired of Georgetown being viewed as the safe backup plan when schools like Duke, UNC and Kentucky don't offer. We're better than that.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Jul 23, 2011 20:48:42 GMT -5
Well someone from the Gtown staff was at his game today, so you can all probably shut up about this. He has 21 pts and 4 assts in a win. Xavier head coach Chris Mack, and assistants from Illinois, Alabama, and FSU were there too
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Jul 23, 2011 20:55:26 GMT -5
His first name is James backwards, huh?
And the CW bashers will be happy that his last name shows that he is clearly 'not Chris.'
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KirbyKeger
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Post by KirbyKeger on Jul 23, 2011 22:18:55 GMT -5
Well someone from the Gtown staff was at his game today, so you can all probably shut up about this. He has 21 pts and 4 assts in a win. Xavier head coach Chris Mack, and assistants from Illinois, Alabama, and FSU were there too We've been at his games all summer. However, recently, we've fallen on his list and are no longer a favorite. Clearly, that doesn't add up. So, if anything, it would take the debate over what the explanation is to new levels.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jul 24, 2011 10:05:20 GMT -5
You know, guys, a big factor in our "slow" recruiting of the kid is that as of right now the Hoyas only have three remaining scholarships to hand out over the next two years (starting with 2012). Just think about that. I know, I know. Recruit now, worry about the rest later. Increasingly I've tended to agree with that. But if Kirby and Broadus helps give III and GU a recruiting edge that he may not have had in recent previous years then maybe the Hoyas have a great chance at some of these studs in '12 and '13.
Three scholarships for possible players like:
Anderson (2012) Warren (2012) Pollard (2012) loooooong shot but Drummond (2012) Upshaw (2012 ?) Noel (2013) Troy Williams (2013) Britt (2013) Freeman (2013)
Those are the dudes that come to mind immediately. Granted even if GU had eight scholarships available the Hoyas would not get all eight players. But is it possible they could get three, four or five? If so would you still want to pull the string right now on Christon and bring him on board because not only of his talent but because he would be the first one willing to commit? To me that's an interesting question.
Of course there is a good possibility that one or more person currently on the roster might transfer. But we don't know for sure if one or more players would transfer nor do we know when such a transfer would take place. In our freshman and sophomore classes who have we seen enough of to say "I hope this guy leaves"? In fact I will ask pose a question that I have brought up before: should we want GU players to transfer in the first place? Perhaps there is someone in the frosh or soph classes who end up being so good he leaves for the NBA early. Of course I am not including Hollis in this because regardless of whether he leaves after this upcoming season or the following the numbers stay the same: at this rate three scholarships available for the next two years of recruiting.
If we bring in a Christon and one or two other players, do we really want III going into next summer with no scholarships currently available as he sits in and catches all those AAU games of Noel and Williams?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jul 24, 2011 11:55:02 GMT -5
You know, guys, a big factor in our "slow" recruiting of the kid is that as of right now the Hoyas only have three remaining scholarships to hand out over the next two years (starting with 2012). Just think about that. I know, I know. Recruit now, worry about the rest later. Increasingly I've tended to agree with that. But if Kirby and Broadus helps give III and GU a recruiting edge that he may not have had in recent previous years then maybe the Hoyas have a great chance at some of these studs in '12 and '13. Three scholarships for possible players like: Anderson (2012) Warren (2012) Pollard (2012) loooooong shot but Drummond (2012) Upshaw (2012 ?) Noel (2013) Troy Williams (2013) Britt (2013) Freeman (2013) Those are the dudes that come to mind immediately. Granted even if GU had eight scholarships available the Hoyas would not get all eight players. But is it possible they could get three, four or five? If so would you still want to pull the string right now on Christon and bring him on board because not only of his talent but because he would be the first one willing to commit? To me that's an interesting question. Of course there is a good possibility that one or more person currently on the roster might transfer. But we don't know for sure if one or more players would transfer nor do we know when such a transfer would take place. In our freshman and sophomore classes who have we seen enough of to say "I hope this guy leaves"? In fact I will ask pose a question that I have brought up before: should we want GU players to transfer in the first place? Perhaps there is someone in the frosh or soph classes who end up being so good he leaves for the NBA early. Of course I am not including Hollis in this because regardless of whether he leaves after this upcoming season or the following the numbers stay the same: at this rate three scholarships available for the next two years of recruiting. If we bring in a Christon and one or two other players, do we really want III going into next summer with no scholarships currently available as he sits in and catches all those AAU games of Noel and Williams? I say yes to your question in bold type MCI.. The staff has a very good shot at landing Anderson but imho Warren, Pollard, Drummond ect.. for 2012 are all long shots(Gotta think the staff is just monitoring Upshaw for now). When you look at the make-up of the roster for 2012 a glaring need is for a ball handler to help out Markel and JT, Semaj can fit that bill perfectly and if Anderson does choose G'town then the team will look really good to me. The team needs another guard for next year regardless, forget about 2013 for now. I'd rather have James than DSR or James Robinson to be honest.
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KirbyKeger
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Post by KirbyKeger on Jul 24, 2011 12:12:05 GMT -5
I think, if you look at the scholarship tables, we have 2 scholarships available in '12 with Bolden already committed. Then, we have one available for '13 with the departure of Hollis after his senior year. If Hollis comes out early, then we would have 3 scholarships available to divide between '12 and '13 as we choose.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jul 24, 2011 12:26:38 GMT -5
I think, if you look at the scholarship tables, we have 2 scholarships available in '12 with Bolden already committed. Then, we have one available for '13 with the departure of Hollis after his senior year. If Hollis comes out early, then we would have 3 scholarships available to divide between '12 and '13 as we choose. I realize that which is why I wrote that the Hoyas have THREE remaining scholarships, at this moment, to spread out over the next two years (classes) regardless when Hollis leaves. I never wrote that the Hoyas had three more scholarships to give out to the 2012 class alone.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jul 24, 2011 12:31:12 GMT -5
I say yes to your question in bold type MCI.. The staff has a very good shot at landing Anderson but imho Warren, Pollard, Drummond ect.. for 2012 are all long shots(Gotta think the staff is just monitoring Upshaw for now). When you look at the make-up of the roster for 2012 a glaring need is for a ball handler to help out Markel and JT, Semaj can fit that bill perfectly and if Anderson does choose G'town then the team will looks really good to me. The team needs another guard for next year regardless, forget about 2013 for now. I'd rather have James than DSR or James Robinson to be honest. Something tells me the Hoyas have just as good a shot at Warren as they do at Anderson. But even if that's not the case I still wouldn't put Warren in the long shot category. That being said I take it that you feel that if the Hoyas got Anderson they would/should say no to Warren and go after a guard like Christon and then call it a day for 2012. I would be fine with that.
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KirbyKeger
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Post by KirbyKeger on Jul 24, 2011 13:00:34 GMT -5
My bad MCI, I got confused over whether or not you were including Bolden
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jul 24, 2011 13:05:47 GMT -5
No problem. My sentnces can be kind of wordy anyway.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jul 24, 2011 14:11:37 GMT -5
I say yes to your question in bold type MCI.. The staff has a very good shot at landing Anderson but imho Warren, Pollard, Drummond ect.. for 2012 are all long shots(Gotta think the staff is just monitoring Upshaw for now). When you look at the make-up of the roster for 2012 a glaring need is for a ball handler to help out Markel and JT, Semaj can fit that bill perfectly and if Anderson does choose G'town then the team will looks really good to me. The team needs another guard for next year regardless, forget about 2013 for now. I'd rather have James than DSR or James Robinson to be honest. Something tells me the Hoyas have just as good a shot at Warren as they do at Anderson. But even if that's not the case I still wouldn't put Warren in the long shot category. That being said I take it that you feel that if the Hoyas got Anderson they would/should say no to Warren and go after a guard like Christon and then call it a day for 2012. I would be fine with that. I'm looking more at position need than the player. Warren is a beast but I just feel the class has to have a ball handling type guard and Semaj seems to be the best of the players that the staff is looking at for the '12 class. All reports are he's a late bloomer with a big upside so I would take him over Warren if Anderson said yes.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jul 24, 2011 22:50:47 GMT -5
By all accounts, Kyle Anderson is considered the #1 pg in his class. With Kyle, jabril, and markel handling the ball...we have all the ball handlers we need for 2012-13. I think the staff may have cooled off on semaj because a christon commit could chill kyle's recruitment. My guess is that if Kyle commits to Georgetown, there is little chance semaj would then commit to Georgetown as well (and visa-versa). Pass on semaj for the moment...even if it means losing him. We've got to go for Kyle and let the rest of the pieces land where they will.
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tonyparker
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Post by tonyparker on Jul 25, 2011 13:34:33 GMT -5
Committed to Xavier. twitter.com/#!/GoodmanCBS/status/95558974904086528
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Post by bronxhoya87 on Jul 25, 2011 13:38:07 GMT -5
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