SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Apr 21, 2010 18:03:12 GMT -5
Great News!The BIG EAST just hired GU Basketball Alum and former long-time NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue as an advisor related to all of this expansion talk and the existential threat it may pose to the Big East. Big East to get advice from Paul Tagliabue
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Post by strummer8526 on Apr 21, 2010 18:14:49 GMT -5
Great News!The BIG EAST just hired GU Basketball Alum and former long-time NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue as an advisor related to all of this expansion talk and the existential threat it may pose to the Big East. Big East to get advice from Paul Tagliabue Well if anyone should have our interests at heart, it should be the Chair of our Board of Governors. It is reassuring knowing we have someone with a track record in league management looking out for our well being in all this.
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Post by flyoverhoya on Apr 21, 2010 19:27:29 GMT -5
Random Question: Are there no protestant basketball-only schools? It just seems random we're only talking about Catholic schools like that, or did one of the Luthor's 95 theses pertain to maintaining a FBS-level football program? At least with respect to Lutheran schools (Martin, not Lex), only 1 or 2 are even D1 - Valparaiso is the only one that comes to mind. Outside of the Baptists, I'm not sure there are that many D1 schools that have retained any affiliation w/one of the Protestant churches. How soon they forget Pepperdine, SMU, TCU, or even Duke...--AdminON EDIT - You could add Oral Roberts, Evansville, Davidson and a few others, point being you couldn't make much of a conference using the entire USA, versus making a decent Catholic BB league using only the eastern corridor.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Apr 21, 2010 19:53:32 GMT -5
What are the chances of Villanova moving up to I-A football and play in the Big East like UConn did? They just won the AA National Championship. It seems like if the Big East football schools want to stay together, that is one way to do it. That's the thing, the Big East football schools DON'T want to stay together. Every one of them is praying right now that they get the invite to the Big 10.... or the ACC... or the Big 12... Anybody but the Big East. Being in any of the other major conferences would bring these teams more money, more tv appearances, better bowls, a better schedule all season long, and more prestige. None of them are hoping to keep the league together, which is why something like elevating Villanova to I-A is not even on the radar. Even doing something like separating from the bball schools and picking up UCF, ECU, Memphis and Temple isn't on the radar, because even if the Big East football schools do that, the second the Big 10 calls any of them, they're gone and the Big East is up the creek again. No matter what the Big East does right now, the second the Big 10 or the ACC calls, teams will jump ship. The only question is how many teams will the Big 10 take from the Big East and when. I'm actually kind of bummed that Tagliabue is in the mix because I like him and I hate to see him attach his name to this rapidly sinking ship.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 21, 2010 20:10:16 GMT -5
I'm actually kind of bummed that Tagliabue is in the mix because I like him and I hate to see him attach his name to this rapidly sinking ship. This "rapidly sinking ship" keeps TV contracts afloat, keeps multiple at-large bids even if you finish 8th in the conference, keeps the revenues to afford JTIII, and keeps Georgetown basketball from looking more like George Washington basketball. Unless you want the "Gray Out" of 2013 to be at a half-empty McDonough versus Colgate, you root for the Big East to survive and thrive.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Apr 21, 2010 20:19:58 GMT -5
Not sure what made you think I'm not rooting for the Big East to survive DFW. I'm definitely rooting for it. But there is almost no chance, for the reasons that I and others have written about in this thread. I'd love to see Tags save the thing but it would take a miracle.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 21, 2010 20:30:59 GMT -5
It is not as bad as you suggest, and Tagliabue is exactly the right man at the right time.
These schools are not looking to move for the fun of it, but are mindful of the power of TV contracts. You give them a financial means to stay and they will.
Consider this scenario: what if the Big East and Tagliabue engineer a deal with ESPN/Disney and the Big 12 (another conference that can't afford B10 expansion) to create a basic cable network akin to the Big Ten Network, owned 35% by the BE, 35% by the B12, and 30% by ESPN, with 24 hour coverage across 28 schools. In addition, the conferences arrange for cross-league challenge series in the major sports.
That group of schools alone includes five of the top 10 US media markets and 12 of the top 30: NY, Chicago, Dallas, Philadelphia, Houston, DC, Denver, et al. The kind of money from that alliance alone would dwarf a Big Ten network with only three markets (beyond Chicago) in the top 30.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 21, 2010 20:36:54 GMT -5
Now that Gonzo is out of the league, the Mousekateers will be more comfortable with such an arrangement.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 21, 2010 20:49:35 GMT -5
I'm with DFW I don't think implosion of the big east is inevitable despite it being likely. I think schools are a lot happier where they are than their fans are.
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Post by reformation on Apr 21, 2010 20:57:56 GMT -5
DeGioia + new AD need help in getting the best for Gtwn in this realignment. They should seek active help from somebody like Tagliabue to be proactive and intelligent re exploring the full range of possibilities in advance. Others with ties to other universities/tv networks should be utilized as well. --I really hope this doesn't become another disaster like acquiring the Mount Vernon property.[/quote]
Glad that the powers that be are listening!
Nothing is inevitable if we are proactive, though this is not an easy situation for anyone including Tagliabue to manage.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 21, 2010 21:06:08 GMT -5
While I've been negative, I actually don't think the BE breaking apart is such a certainty, either.
And if there is a new non-football league, I'd trust Tags to put together a better grouping than a lot of people. You can contend for a national title in one of those; you just don't contend for the top recruits all the time.
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Post by vamosalaplaya on Apr 21, 2010 21:09:31 GMT -5
I'm with DFW. It is brilliant that Tagliabue is involved. And the key is creating a TV network. And creating a TV network is highly political and a complete racket. YES (the Yankee network) was created jointly with Goldman Sachs, they force the NY cable guys to pay for it and pass on rates to every grandmother who wouldn't know a baseball if it crashed through her window but gets cable service, and voila, the thing is worth a billion dollars. The Big Ten network - I mean it is crap filler - lacrosse, soccer, nobody wants to watch what is on it, but it has distribution.
The hoops only schools - yes, they are Catholic - are in places like NY, DC, Philly, and Chicago. Advertisers pay 3-10 times the rates to reach customers in those markets versus Baton Rouge. There is blood that can be squeezed from this stone. And schools like Pitt, Lousville, Cincinnati, that are likely to be boxed out of a BCS type deal because their potential suitors already have schools in those markets (PSU, Kentucky, OSU, etc) are logical allies.
Tagliabue took the keys from Rozelle and mastered this game. The guy created the NFL Network! Awesome that he is involved. And if you got some traction with that - I still think UConn is the crown jewel of the Big East - schools like UConn and Rutgers might be tempted to stay.
Great news Tagliabue is involved. Big East should form a TV network out of all their great markets - I mean they might even entice BC back for the Boston market. Okay, I don't really care about BC at all, but still. The ACC is in a bunch of crap TV markets that nobody cares about. So is the SEC.
That is the deal to pursue create a TV network, and you could offer the same schools begging to be picked by the Big Ten a chance to create something on their own where they keep more upside than they will by being a part of the Big Ten. And the economics of the TV network dwarf the championship game thing.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 21, 2010 21:11:22 GMT -5
I don't want BC in any league with Georgetown. They made a decision and should have to abide by it, even though Boston is the center of the sports universe.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 21, 2010 21:41:04 GMT -5
PeteThamelNYT Scott has talked with BE and Big 10 Commishes about prospect of changing NCAA rule that says league must have 12 teams for league title game
not sure who scott is, but if that rule goes away there's not that much incentive to expand.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 21, 2010 21:46:36 GMT -5
PeteThamelNYT Scott has talked with BE and Big 10 Commishes about prospect of changing NCAA rule that says league must have 12 teams for league title game not sure who scott is, but if that rule goes away there's not that much incentive to expand. Bingo. This is the easiest way out from apocalypse.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Apr 21, 2010 22:00:10 GMT -5
Wrong, it's all about the money, the rich schools get richer. The PacTen and BT want to get the lions share of the major TV markets. The BT network has become a major revenue increase for the schools, they want to add more markets.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 21, 2010 22:03:12 GMT -5
From the Boston Globe, commissioner John Marinatto is floating the idea for a 20-team Big East (12 football, 8 basketball), with four divisions of five teams each (see the front page for the link). The expansion candidates? Maryland, Boston College, Central Florida, and a fourth to be named later (Georgia Tech?).
So how does a list look like this:
North: UConn, PC, BC, St. John's, Syracuse Mid-Atlantic: Villanova, Georgetown, Maryland, Rutgers, Seton Hall West: ND, DePaul, Marquette, WV, Pitt South: UCF, USF, GTech, Louisville, Cincinnati
OK, needs work, at least he's working on some ideas.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Apr 21, 2010 22:46:09 GMT -5
From the Boston Globe, commissioner John Marinatto is floating the idea for a 20-team Big East (12 football, 8 basketball), with four divisions of five teams each (see the front page for the link). The expansion candidates? Maryland, Boston College, Central Florida, and a fourth to be named later (Georgia Tech?). So how does a list look like this: North: UConn, PC, BC, St. John's, Syracuse Mid-Atlantic: Villanova, Georgetown, Maryland, Rutgers, Seton Hall West: ND, DePaul, Marquette, WV, Pitt South: UCF, USF, GTech, Louisville, Cincinnati OK, needs work, at least he's working on some ideas. Yea, 0% chance on this one. Variations have been floating around big east message boards for years. Ask the Maryland or BC fans how they feel about it. No incentive at all for those schools. Think the Big 12 thing, though I know hypothetical, is wishful thinking too. If you're the Big 12 and you've actually got a successful football conference, why start splitting your revenue with 8 inferior football schools and then ANOTHER 8 basketball schools? That's a pretty big divisor, a lot of "mouths to feed". It's true that the Big 12 may end up being a loser if the Big 10 expands big and/or if the PAC 10 expands, but you know what they'd do if they lose a few teams (Missou, Colorado, Nebraska)? They'd just raid whoever is left in the Big East of course. WVU and UL are not likely headed to the Big 10 so they figure to be out there if the B12 needs to fill some spots. Not to mention teams like BYU, Utah, TCU etc. In other words, there are most likely better options for the Big 12. Hard to see how adding Depaul, Marquette, Providence, etc. does anything for them. I do like the idea of leveraging the size of our markets to get a basic cable channel that is picked up in all our metro areas, just seems like a long-shot to me.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 21, 2010 22:54:38 GMT -5
The Big 12 has a lot at stake as well. Losing Missouri and Nebraska is one thing, but the Pac 10 or SEC would then make a play for Texas and Texas A&M (Texas once considered the Pac-10 a decade ago). The remaining eight would be in a world of hurt, and the fault lines that still exist between the old Big 8 and old SWC schools wouldn't stand long.
The B12 wouldn't "add" Depaul, Marquette, Providence, etc., inasmuch as they'd share TV time with them. The two leagues stay independent but aren't responsible for the up-front cost of a network.
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ksf42001
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Post by ksf42001 on Apr 22, 2010 0:01:31 GMT -5
The Big 12 has a lot at stake as well. Losing Missouri and Nebraska is one thing, but the Pac 10 or SEC would then make a play for Texas and Texas A&M (Texas once considered the Pac-10 a decade ago). The remaining eight would be in a world of hurt, and the fault lines that still exist between the old Big 8 and old SWC schools wouldn't stand long. The B12 wouldn't "add" Depaul, Marquette, Providence, etc., inasmuch as they'd share TV time with them. The two leagues stay independent but aren't responsible for the up-front cost of a network. I personally can't see Texas leaving the Big 12, and as long as they stay, the Big 12 will live. They have a lot more options in terms of replacing other schools if they leave too, since they have the TCU/Houston/SMU and maybe even Arkansas (old-Southwest Conference team) to bring up. If the PAC-10 takes anyone, I see it being Colorado.
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