hoyaalf
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
I like what your doing very much. Why squirrel hate me?
Posts: 688
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Post by hoyaalf on Apr 20, 2010 18:00:49 GMT -5
Given the situation, the only "TRUE HOYA" that I can think of is Oscar.
No?
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Post by strummer8526 on Apr 20, 2010 21:04:09 GMT -5
Man, I didn't check the board for a few hours, and all hell broke loose over here.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,224
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Post by hoyarooter on Apr 20, 2010 21:40:11 GMT -5
If he was worried about the CBA--then best way to assure you'll get paid--return to school, be the #1 overall pick and you will get paid. He is taking more of a risk coming out this year in terms of his immediate financial status. If he goes lower then top 5--and near 10-12 range--he'll get less then he would've next year if he was a top 3 pick. He wanted to leave--so he left. The last sentence is probably the only one that's correct in your analysis. I doubt the CBA influenced Greg all that much. That being said, I would be surprised if there isn't a drastic cut in what players salaries can be in the new CBA (including rookies) and I would bet that, and the prospect of having to choose between only playing/getting paid for half a season next year b/c of a lockout or staying until the 2012 draft (if that's an option) factored into quite a few players decisions to declare. Certainty is a valuable thing. Thanks for getting this thread back on course, TBird. No thanks to Mr. Sixer for leading it far, far astray. Anyway, it would be a pretty significant role of the dice to figure that a player who looks like a 9-12 pick this year would be a top 3 pick next year. When you factor in the uncertainty of the contract situation, I think a jump this year makes perfect sense. But in any event, we are getting into hypotheticals. I never suggested that Greg specifically did or didn't consider the contract. I only said that in general, it made sense to me that a lottery pick would factor that into his decision.
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Post by dove on Apr 20, 2010 23:12:03 GMT -5
In the midst of all the talk about Greg leaving, thanks to Chris and Austin for staying!!
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hoyas2006
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 377
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Post by hoyas2006 on Apr 21, 2010 8:00:16 GMT -5
samuels just declared from lville. i mentioned before i was suprised he hasn't
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Post by upstatehoya on Apr 22, 2010 13:43:07 GMT -5
everyone's talking about the CBA changing the rookie scale, but from an ownership perspective it's the smartest thing the NBA has going now, as far as how they govern their contracts. rookie salaries are a known quantity, the money and years are pre-arranged, so it's not a negotiating battle like it used to be. contract armageddon isn't coming because the rookies make too much money or have 3-year guaranteed contracts. it's the 60 million they're paying to the erick dampiers of the world, or the max contracts for garbage like rashard lewis, zach randolph and eddy curry, and everyone knows it. even the max deal for jermaine o'neal, which looked decent when he got it, has now murdered three teams (pacers, raptors and heat). given that the salary-cap means the NBA is a revenue-sharing partnership between the owners and players, and thus the players will get a defined cut of revenues paid out as salaries, even if this cut is smaller than it has been in the past, any money the owners save on the rookie scale goes back into the general salary pool for the rest of the players on the team. so owners can either pay a definite contract for a definite number of years, known in advance because of the team's draft position, or they can splash that money back into the pot and tack it onto what the owners all know is an unstable system of giving mediocre players big-money, long-term guaranteed contracts. the owners are looking to save big money, and they're not going to get there by haggling for pocket money with the rookie scale.
second, this business about greg "having" to jump now, or about how he would have been dump not to jump now, is poppycock. jumping to the NBA now is only in greg's short-term interest, and he traded long-term investment in himself as a player and a brand for the short-term benefit of "pay me now". if he had stayed another year, he'd be a better player and a bigger brand, which any changes to the CBA wouldn't affect. he'd be better positioned for marketing and endorsement purposes, regardless of how the contracts are structured in the future.
as for being a better player, i'm sure he can hit the weight room in the NBA, but he's not going to be a featured part of any NBA offense for a while -- and certainly not next year -- and he'll be fighting to be a 4th option on the jazz (latest ESPN mock draft destination for greg) behind williams, boozer and kirilenko. does he really think he'll be able to get game reps to develop the jump shot he needs to make an impact in the NBA? i really hope he succeeds, both for himself and because it looks bad when hoya stars suck in the big leagues (cf. coach K and duke), but i think he's making it harder on himself. his best chance to better himself was another year as a star of a powerhouse college team, and now he won't get that opportunity.
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DudeSlade
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I got through the Esherick years. I can get through anything.
Posts: 1,209
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Post by DudeSlade on Apr 22, 2010 14:30:24 GMT -5
Acknowledging that Greg is in the draft for good no matter whether it was the right choice or not, I would like to start speculating about his future. More specifically, where he will get drafted and what team will take him. Seems like a more fun topic.
Assuming (for the sake of this exercise) that the draft order will mirror the records of the worst teams, where do you think he'll go?
ESPN Lotto + Mock puts him consistently at #9 to the Utah Jazz. NBAdraft.net puts him at #6 to the Philadelphia Sixers.
Personally, I can't see him going to Detroit or the Clippers (the #7 & 8 in this exercise). Clippers have Griffin and Kaman. Detroit has a gluttony of 3s & 4s and probably could use a PG or defensive Center. I just don't see Greg fitting in Detroit.
Philly? I suppose. He could learn from Brand -- not sit behind, but learn from a veteran who was a low post beast when healthy.
Utah would be great with Williams and Boozer/Millsap. I could see him beating out Okur eventually as long as they have the banger in Boozer/Millsap at the 4.
So, if I had to guess, #6 to Philly and if not #9 to Utah. Otherwise, I hope for #11 to New Orleans - picture him with Chris Paul and Darren Collison. Awesome!
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,394
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Post by hoyainspirit on Apr 22, 2010 15:59:14 GMT -5
I don't really follow pro basketball, other than Hoyas in the league. But for me it would be great if New Orleans traded up and acquired Greg. I might actually pay close attention again. Here's hoping...
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 23, 2010 9:26:01 GMT -5
Like I said earlier in this thread, I'd love for him to go to a good team -- Utah or New Orleans.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Apr 23, 2010 9:53:50 GMT -5
greg would have a great chance to play in utah. Carlos Boozer isn't coming back and Okur is out with a busted achilles....he may be out until december. that leaves millsap and fessenko and kosta koufos....greg would and should have a shot there
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,224
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Post by hoyarooter on Apr 23, 2010 12:09:47 GMT -5
greg would have a great chance to play in utah. Carlos Boozer isn't coming back and Okur is out with a busted achilles....he may be out until december. that leaves millsap and fessenko and kosta koufos....greg would and should have a shot there Last I heard, Boozer may be returning to Utah. I guess that could still play out in any number of ways.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 23, 2010 17:54:26 GMT -5
When all is said and done, I think DeSean Butler's devastating knee injury during the Final Four which knocked him out of a high pick, and cost him millions and had as much of an impact on alot of players leaving this year as the new agreement.
I think that moment sealed the deal for alot of the draftees.
People should appreciate Greg coming back for his second year when he was very, very, very close to leaving after his freshman year. His draft position basically is the same now as it would have been last year but he came back to help the team and by time till we got a good recruiting class.
It wasn't his fault that Austin got sick and couldn't produce at the end of the season. Yet he still gave us a fun and competitive season with alot of good memories.
I think the extreme lack of depth really hurt us the last two years and that's something that has been corrected for next year.
Good luck Greg! Thanks.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Apr 24, 2010 1:23:59 GMT -5
DeSean Butler was seen as late/fringe 1st Round pick before he got injured. When someone gets injured--it's always pointed out--but what about the numerous players that don't get hurt.
Here's a crazy idea--Monroe wanted to play in NBA and whether he would go higher next year or not--he wanted to go.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 24, 2010 5:11:25 GMT -5
When all is said and done, I think DeSean Butler's devastating knee injury during the Final Four which knocked him out of a high pick, and cost him millions and had as much of an impact on alot of players leaving this year as the new agreement. I think that moment sealed the deal for alot of the draftees. . Don't think so. Players are always aware of the possibility of getting injured and don't need to see an example to make them weary of the possibility. The majority of seasons there are no major injuries to any of the spotlight players and yet there is nonetheless a stampede to the draft by the big time prospects. The odds are against any guy getting injured like that anyway. And if we are being honest Butler wasn't a lock to get drafted in the first round this coming draft. In fact if he had not returned for his senior season he would have barely been on the radar for the draft in the first place. His senior season made him in terms of a being a legit possible first rounder as well as his becoming a household name to college basketball fans and now an all-time fave to the folks at WVU. Granted guys like Wall, Favors, Monroe, etc didn't need four years of basketball to become first rounders so I understand why they wouldn't stick around nearly as long. But I don't but the injury argument. A player, before being drafted by a team, could also get injured during practice routines and pickup games leading up to the draft. And am I the only one who remembers another Huggins' player , Kenyon Martin, suffering a bad season injury ending injury in February over a decade ago. But Martin still went #1 in the draft that season. I mean unless you lose a limb the NBA scouts aren't going to forget about you following an injury if you're a big time prospect.
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,762
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Post by blueandgray on Apr 24, 2010 11:54:15 GMT -5
A broken leg isn't nearly as bad as ligament damage. Butler should still be a first round pick but I am sure his draft stock will be somewhat impacted by the injury. Without even sustaining a a late season injury....look at where Blair went in the draft last year. Glad he's proving naysayers wrong.
That said, with regard to Greg, I see him making a jeff like type jump in the draft. He will impress in workouts and GM's are going to love his attitude and work ethic. He could go somewhere between 5 and 7.
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Post by westendhoya on Apr 24, 2010 12:47:18 GMT -5
Has Greg signed with Falk?
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kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by kchoya on May 4, 2010 13:49:04 GMT -5
Surprise, Gottlieb not a big Monroe fan: insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog?name=ncbexperts&id=5161400Greg Monroe does not want to be a superstar. While he is very smart, savvy and skilled, his lack of aggressiveness in terms of demanding the ball and taking over in key situations is at least troubling. While Monroe fits in well as a power forward right now, he is not a great or explosive athlete. He is much more finesse than physical and he can get "punked" by lesser, more aggressive foes.
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Post by strummer8526 on May 4, 2010 14:03:16 GMT -5
Surprise, Gottlieb not a big Monroe fan: insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog?name=ncbexperts&id=5161400Greg Monroe does not want to be a superstar. While he is very smart, savvy and skilled, his lack of aggressiveness in terms of demanding the ball and taking over in key situations is at least troubling. While Monroe fits in well as a power forward right now, he is not a great or explosive athlete. He is much more finesse than physical and he can get "punked" by lesser, more aggressive foes. I'd like Mr. Mastercard here to explain to us (and his readers) what precisely "getting punked" means and what evidence he has that Monroe "gets punked." Last time I checked Ashton Kutcher was not in the NBA.
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mrsixer123
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,283
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Post by mrsixer123 on May 4, 2010 14:14:47 GMT -5
Surprise, Gottlieb not a big Monroe fan: insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog?name=ncbexperts&id=5161400Greg Monroe does not want to be a superstar. While he is very smart, savvy and skilled, his lack of aggressiveness in terms of demanding the ball and taking over in key situations is at least troubling. While Monroe fits in well as a power forward right now, he is not a great or explosive athlete. He is much more finesse than physical and he can get "punked" by lesser, more aggressive foes. I'd like Mr. Mastercard here to explain to us (and his readers) what precisely "getting punked" means and what evidence he has that Monroe "gets punked." Last time I checked Ashton Kutcher was not in the NBA. "getting punked" can mean several things in greg's case. 1 being no ncaa wins in his gtown career after coming in as the #1 "big man" in the country......... For Greg's sake I PRAY that he is not drafted by philly
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kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by kchoya on May 4, 2010 14:22:39 GMT -5
I'd like Mr. Mastercard here to explain to us (and his readers) what precisely "getting punked" means and what evidence he has that Monroe "gets punked." Last time I checked Ashton Kutcher was not in the NBA. "getting punked" can mean several things in greg's case. 1 being no ncaa wins in his gtown career after coming in as the #1 "big man" in the country......... For Greg's sake I PRAY that he is not drafted by philly broken record...
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