the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
|
Post by the_way on Apr 19, 2010 14:11:35 GMT -5
Greg was not the reason we got airtime.
Coach JTIII and the program he resurrected was the reason. And it will be long after Greg is gone.
Greg used the platform already provided by JTIII, and the Ewing, Jr's, Jeff Green's, and Hibbert's, to showcase his skills to make him appeal to NBA teams as a lotto pick.
Let's stop with the revisionist history.
Greg was not Ewing, Mourning or Iverson or Jeff Green. I'm not sure if he was even as good as Sweetney.
Greg was the 2nd coming of Othella Harrington. A lot of hype, top recruit to come into school, but minus the impact, and a dip in performance level as a team when he was here his 1st 2 years..
Greg came here, we became an afterthought two postseasons in a row, couldn't close out strong or finish, and became a passive team that took a step back defensively.
|
|
|
Post by gtowndynasty on Apr 19, 2010 14:13:07 GMT -5
Yikes DHall. I guess one can dismiss the way he represented himself on and off the court. And I guess one can dismiss the notoriety he brought to the program. But then one would not be operating in the realm of reality. Because this is the reality...athletes are the reason that schools get airtime. They are the reason jerseys, tickets, advertising revenues are generated. Were we making money before Greg, of course. But the point is that what he and other players are DIRECTLY responsible for is $$$. Therefore, to think the university is owed something because he didnt produce postseason wins or he whined to refs, well that is crazy. I acknowledged the same multiple times. I just thought he got more than we did for his two years if you look at the contract he's about to sign and future earnings. That's all. If you don't agree, fine. I'm done. But DHall just to address your last point, GM would have signed a richer contract had he not come to G'Town so if the argument is GU put him in a position for financial gain, I would have to vehemently disagree. Had the one and done rule not been instituted, GM would have come out of hs as the #1 overall prospect in the land and not gone lower than #3 in the draft whereas now he is looking like somewhere between 5-12, probably closer to 12 than 5. Therefore, that argument does not hold a lot of weight either. #jusfacts.
|
|
sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
|
Post by sleepy on Apr 19, 2010 14:29:04 GMT -5
I acknowledged the same multiple times. I just thought he got more than we did for his two years if you look at the contract he's about to sign and future earnings. That's all. If you don't agree, fine. I'm done. But DHall just to address your last point, GM would have signed a richer contract had he not come to G'Town so if the argument is GU put him in a position for financial gain, I would have to vehemently disagree. Had the one and done rule had not been instituted, GM would have come out of hs as the #1 overall prospect in the land and not gone lower than #3 in the draft whereas now he is looking like somewhere between 5-12, probably closer to 12 than 5. Therefore, that argument does not hold a lot of weight either. #jusfacts. Greg was not the number 1 recruit by the time he finished high school, he was around 8. In addition to the fact I do believe Beasley, Rose, Mayo, Westbrook and Love all still would have been taken before him in that draft class, so I SERIOUSLY doubt he wouldn't have fallen below 3 in the draft.
|
|
|
Post by gtowndynasty on Apr 19, 2010 14:36:15 GMT -5
I cant imagine a scenario where all those guys go before GM when he came out of hs, ESPECIALLY knowing how the NBA covets SKILLED BIGS. Absolutely no way Kevin Love would have and I am having a hard time believing westbrook and mayo would have too. Without using the benefit of knowing how good westbrook is now, I just cant see it as people were crying foul all over the country when he was drafted at 4. In fact, Im doubting Beasley would gone before GM too. He is a 3 without a jumper, yet fascinated with the perimeter, or he is a way undersized 4. Just cant see it bro. But as my boss tells me, it is impossible to argue hypotheticals so I will relent and get back to work.
|
|
757hoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,999
|
Post by 757hoyafan on Apr 19, 2010 14:47:16 GMT -5
Greg was not the reason we got airtime. Coach JTIII and the program he resurrected was the reason. And it will be long after Greg is gone. Greg used the platform already provided by JTIII, and the Ewing, Jr's, Jeff Green's, and Hibbert's, to showcase his skills to make him appeal to NBA teams as a lotto pick. Let's stop with the revisionist history. Greg was not Ewing, Mourning or Iverson or Jeff Green. I'm not sure if he was even as good as Sweetney. Greg was the 2nd coming of Othella Harrington. A lot of hype, top recruit to come into school, but minus the impact, and a dip in performance level as a team when he was here his 1st 2 years.. Greg came here, we became an afterthought two postseasons in a row, couldn't close out strong or finish, and became a passive team that took a step back defensively. Nah, Sweets was a monster.
|
|
kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
|
Post by kchoya on Apr 19, 2010 15:04:45 GMT -5
I don't want this to sound the wrong way, but I think Greg owes the University some cash! Sure, schools exploit the kids for their basketball talents, but looking back on the past two years he certainly received a lot more than he gave. He is a much much better player thanks to the opportunity he had at Georgetown and the coaching. Yes, he contributed to the program and represented it well during the two years, but he was part of an awful team and then a good but underachieving/inconsistent team. I don't blame Greg for leaving at all, but I'd think an endowed scholarship for a basketball player would even things out. I wouldn't have written this two years ago, but if you take everything into account with hindsight, he came out ahead and the program came out behind. Part of that is on him and part is on the coaching staff and other players. WWJT2D. Ask yourself how JT2 would respond to this post, and you'll realize how stupid your words are.
|
|
the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
|
Post by the_way on Apr 19, 2010 15:10:05 GMT -5
I don't want this to sound the wrong way, but I think Greg owes the University some cash! Sure, schools exploit the kids for their basketball talents, but looking back on the past two years he certainly received a lot more than he gave. He is a much much better player thanks to the opportunity he had at Georgetown and the coaching. Yes, he contributed to the program and represented it well during the two years, but he was part of an awful team and then a good but underachieving/inconsistent team. I don't blame Greg for leaving at all, but I'd think an endowed scholarship for a basketball player would even things out. I wouldn't have written this two years ago, but if you take everything into account with hindsight, he came out ahead and the program came out behind. Part of that is on him and part is on the coaching staff and other players. WWJT2D. Ask yourself how JT2 would respond to this post, and you'll realize how stupid your words are. With the style Greg played as a Center, I'm not so sure JT2 would disagree. ;D
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Apr 19, 2010 15:25:56 GMT -5
But DHall just to address your last point, GM would have signed a richer contract had he not come to G'Town so if the argument is GU put him in a position for financial gain, I would have to vehemently disagree. Had the one and done rule had not been instituted, GM would have come out of hs as the #1 overall prospect in the land and not gone lower than #3 in the draft whereas now he is looking like somewhere between 5-12, probably closer to 12 than 5. Therefore, that argument does not hold a lot of weight either. #jusfacts. Greg was not the number 1 recruit by the time he finished high school, he was around 8. In addition to the fact I do believe Beasley, Rose, Mayo, Westbrook and Love all still would have been taken before him in that draft class, so I SERIOUSLY doubt he wouldn't have fallen below 3 in the draft. Wouldn't pretty much everyone of those players have been in the draft the year before if players were allowed to go from High School to the pros?
|
|
hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,487
|
Post by hoyaboya on Apr 19, 2010 16:07:39 GMT -5
But DHall just to address your last point, GM would have signed a richer contract had he not come to G'Town so if the argument is GU put him in a position for financial gain, I would have to vehemently disagree. Had the one and done rule had not been instituted, GM would have come out of hs as the #1 overall prospect in the land and not gone lower than #3 in the draft whereas now he is looking like somewhere between 5-12, probably closer to 12 than 5. Therefore, that argument does not hold a lot of weight either. #jusfacts. Greg was not the number 1 recruit by the time he finished high school, he was around 8. In addition to the fact I do believe Beasley, Rose, Mayo, Westbrook and Love all still would have been taken before him in that draft class, so I SERIOUSLY doubt he wouldn't have fallen below 3 in the draft. Many/most of those would also have been one-and-dones if the NBA didn't have the rule that players have to go to college...therefore, Monroe wouldn't have been competing against them for draft spots, as they would have been in the NBA draft a year earlier.
|
|
hoyaalf
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
I like what your doing very much. Why squirrel hate me?
Posts: 688
|
Post by hoyaalf on Apr 19, 2010 16:18:33 GMT -5
Golly! Was I the first sourpuss to p%$$ in the soup?
The so-called anti-GM tone of this farewell lap possibly began with my demurrer on the notion of taking pleasure in GM's play. [The money-owing is a red herring, not for discussion here, nor will it support close scrutiny.]
My original point was a response to jagtrader [where are you?] regarding the notion of aesthetic pleasure watching GM play for two seasons.
It seems to have devolved to a discussion of money [which has it's own aesthetic appeal, but that's for a different bottle of gin].
Let's back away from the ledge of getting and spending for a moment to talk some happy talk.
First and foremost, I express my whole-hearted joy that Mrs. Monroe who carried and nurtured this nice young man, can sit down and enjoy for the rest of her exemplary life!
Second, I thank GM for choosing my university, showing flashes of a brilliant future. I will pray fervently that he completes his degree.
That's it.
|
|
sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
|
Post by sleepy on Apr 19, 2010 18:03:18 GMT -5
Greg was not the number 1 recruit by the time he finished high school, he was around 8. In addition to the fact I do believe Beasley, Rose, Mayo, Westbrook and Love all still would have been taken before him in that draft class, so I SERIOUSLY doubt he wouldn't have fallen below 3 in the draft. Wouldn't pretty much everyone of those players have been in the draft the year before if players were allowed to go from High School to the pros? Of course they would, but the arguement was never "if the one year rule was never in place Greg would have been a top 3 pick." If you have to specify that there was never any one and done rule at all it changes things completely because that changes every players decision to enter/withdraw from the draft, which changes way to much to ever consider. I was just saying if the 2008 class was the exception to the rule he wouldn't have been at worst a top 3 pick. I don't think under any circumstances would Greg have been a top 3 pick coming out of high school, but thats just my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by strummer8526 on Apr 19, 2010 19:54:57 GMT -5
Hoyaalf, I'm glad you brought up the hope that he would finish his degree.
The reason I haven't been as negative about Greg leaving as I've been about transfers is that there's still a chance that he will do something that I really appreciate: he will show love for Georgetown in the years to come. Transfers roll out, and whether they bash the school/program or not, their transfer inherently implies that they want to go to school somewhere else. Jeff, on the other hand, left us a year early, and from a basketball perspective, that sucked. But when I heard that he was back taking classes that summer (and every summer since), any disappointment I had about his decision completely dissipated because he showed that he cared about the school, he appreciated the campus, he enjoyed his time at my alma mater. The fact that he'll still hit up McD in the summer is more important to me in terms of the message it sends than if he stayed for his fourth year and we won it all. (Yeah, winning it all would have been great from a fan perspective. But in terms of what it says about the individual player, it shows more that he chooses to spend his free time at Georgetown than it would have if he stuck around his senior year but then never showed up at Georgetown again.)
By all accounts, Greg is going to class. He's expressed that he wants to get the degree. He has an example of a guy who's already doing it (Jeff). If Greg goes down a similar road (maybe not even necessarily taking classes every summer, but just being around campus every now and again or stopping by a Kenner game), I will wish him nothing but the best in his career because I'll appreciate that he has such fondness for Georgetown. Even if he doesn't do that, I still hope he succeeds. He seems like a nice, bright guy. But I'll also feel just a little bit like he showed up, got his stats, punched his card, didn't win a tournament game, and bounced.
I agree with Dhall in the sense that, while I don't think Greg necessarily owes the school MONEY, I do think he owes it some loyalty, same as I think any alum should be appreciative of the opportunities the school provided them.
|
|
|
Post by HoyasAreHungry on Apr 19, 2010 20:04:37 GMT -5
complete class act....quoted in the post of saying he definitely wants to come back and get his degree...how many kids who leave early from the draft make it a point to say this when they leave?? while we didnt get the results we wanted on the court we had a hell of a person and representative of the university who will only do us proud no matter how long he plays basketball and no matter what he does in life. A lot of you need some perspective and be appreciative of the kid that we had.
BEST OF LUCK GREG WE WILL MISS YOU!
|
|
OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,387
|
Post by OldHoyafan on Apr 19, 2010 20:53:01 GMT -5
Greg was not the reason we got airtime. Coach JTIII and the program he resurrected was the reason. And it will be long after Greg is gone. Greg used the platform already provided by JTIII, and the Ewing, Jr's, Jeff Green's, and Hibbert's, to showcase his skills to make him appeal to NBA teams as a lotto pick. Let's stop with the revisionist history. Greg was not Ewing, Mourning or Iverson or Jeff Green. I'm not sure if he was even as good as Sweetney. Greg was the 2nd coming of Othella Harrington. A lot of hype, top recruit to come into school, but minus the impact, and a dip in performance level as a team when he was here his 1st 2 years.. Greg came here, we became an afterthought two postseasons in a row, couldn't close out strong or finish, and became a passive team that took a step back defensively. I must say "the way" has been consistant in his criticism of Monroe throughout this year and last. Monroe is a talented kid but lacked the aggressiveness coming out of high school and unfortunate for him did not have a Hoya like Ewing, Mourning, or Green to show him how to be soft spoken but carry a mean streak into the game. He really could have benefited from playing with Green or Ewing Jr., for a year like Hibbert did to learn how to have a controlled aggressiveness on both ends of the court. I wish this young man the best at the next level. I hope he can play with a guy like Duncan who will show him how to lead without being very vocal.
|
|
hoyaalf
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
I like what your doing very much. Why squirrel hate me?
Posts: 688
|
Post by hoyaalf on Apr 19, 2010 22:07:51 GMT -5
That's it,.
He needs to acquire the leadership quailty/aura/work-ethic/AGGRESSION.
Otherwise he will be an athletic Shane Battier when he might be so much more.
|
|
|
Post by rustyshackleford on Apr 19, 2010 23:52:41 GMT -5
Greg was not the reason we got airtime. Coach JTIII and the program he resurrected was the reason. And it will be long after Greg is gone. Greg used the platform already provided by JTIII, and the Ewing, Jr's, Jeff Green's, and Hibbert's, to showcase his skills to make him appeal to NBA teams as a lotto pick. Let's stop with the revisionist history. Greg was not Ewing, Mourning or Iverson or Jeff Green. I'm not sure if he was even as good as Sweetney. Greg was the 2nd coming of Othella Harrington. A lot of hype, top recruit to come into school, but minus the impact, and a dip in performance level as a team when he was here his 1st 2 years.. Greg came here, we became an afterthought two postseasons in a row, couldn't close out strong or finish, and became a passive team that took a step back defensively. There's not revisionist history. I don't think you understand the point I'm making or how the marginal value a player adds to the Gtown brand works. Greg didn't have to be Ewing, Mourning, Dikembe or Sweets (who I think is a poor comparison for your point anyway) while he was here in order to earn Georgetown a ton of money. First, it isn't some type of trivial thing that Greg was able to come here, become a great, highly decorated player and put himself in the position to be a lottery pick. There have been plenty of prospects with Greg's high school ranking and accolades who have been utter busts, who couldn't make the NBA, who couldn't make the first round, who couldn't make an all conf team and so on. Selling Greg 'short' by saying he reminds of you Othella is an emotional reflection on his value, not a logically based financial one. The Gtown brand was absolutely built up by the previous players and teams who we all love. They are what makes us higher profile than the Fordhams and Xaviers. However, just because you were once a power with a bunch of stars doesn't mean that you can't fall off the cliff in terms of wins with a new tradition of mediocrity. Ask the fans of Holy Cross how that works out, or to a lesser extent St. John's or Boston College. Consistent winning is the predominant factor in the strength of a brand. Regardless of how good you think Greg should have been or might have been, its nearly undeniable that we were a better team that won more with Greg on it than if he hadn't been playing. That in turn earns Georgetown money - whether its an extra revenue share from our disappointing tourney game, higher seeds in the tourney, being nationally ranked for stretches of the season, future national tv dates that are always going to be correlated with a team's recent performance, merchandise being bought by young kids who want to be able to play like Greg or a bevy of big men recruits who think this is the perfect place to showcase and hone their skills. You're conflating the marginal value Greg obviously added to this team with what many fans will feel is under-performing with respect to the expectations of the past couple years. There's no logical inconsistency in believing that Greg has added financial value to the team and at the same time hasn't left a great legacy of winning in the eyes of many fans. If Greg or any of the other players do read this though, I want to stress this is just in response to the poster who said Greg owes Gtown something. I think nearly all fans, including myself, are proud and happy to have had Greg, Sweets, Austin, and Chris and the many other past and present gtown players play basketball for the program.
|
|
|
Post by rchoya06 on Apr 20, 2010 10:17:50 GMT -5
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Apr 20, 2010 10:57:24 GMT -5
Talking about the collective bargaining stuff is a bunch of CRAP. Guys leave because they want to--and if it makes fans feel better to have another "reason"--then so be it. Some like to dream up scenarios that are theatrical "Greg will announce he's staying at the Banquet.....and get a roar of approval...." well how did that turn out?
Reality is that he wanted to go and felt he's ready--so he's gone. It's his life and his decision. He doesn't owe any money, any of us fans anything--he did his best and has been a good representative of Georgetown on/off the court. Did Hoyas win as much as he/we hoped? Of course not. Is it just beyond stupid to take anything a player says after a game as 100% truth? Of course. Does it make him less of a Hoya or a bad guy for not having more TEAM success-which last time I checked--your teammates play a part in how the team does--I don't think so. If putting up 19 and 13 is horrible in your lone NCAA appearance--then give me some horrible bigs like that in future.
Fact is Greg couldn't returned, been a top 3-5 pick next year and team could've lost in first round just as easily as they could've made run deep in tournament. Players actually control their fate--so the big picture we fans see doesn't mean a damn to them--nor should it. I don't have a mom busting her ass to work 2 jobs, and give him opportunity to play basketball. I don't have a chance to live my dream of playing a pro sport, making millions of dollars, and still getting my degree (Greg still is going to classes and showing more class then some have in bashing everything about him--talking of his basketball skills is fine, but to say he's selfish or owes Georgetown is ridiculous).
I wish Greg nothing but the best--and you guys have to see big picture--guys like Johnny O'Bryant who is visiting this weekend (scheduled to unofficially) look up to Greg and guys they hope to be like--and Johnny is from South, a versatile big and you dont' think Greg will be a guy he'd like to talk to? Recruiting is important to eventually getting over the hump-and just because one player's "era" didn't end up as we all hoped--it still isn't a failure if he's a guy who is a student athlete, gave his all and didn't do anything to embarrass the school. You keep getting people/players like Monroe--and get a lot of them--you'll get over the hump.
Team's success hasn't been as strong as it was/will be--but a part of that future success is owed to guys like Greg Monroe who came here, succeeded, were very happy/enjoyed their time, and will be making millions--other kids like O'Bryant (good enough student that he's had Harvard after him) list Hoyas highly-as you'll see if you choose to visit Recruiting board. Georgetown is poised to have a special class in '11 and it doesn't happen if you don't "fail" with guys like we've got now.
|
|
hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,224
|
Post by hoyarooter on Apr 20, 2010 11:59:43 GMT -5
Talking about the collective bargaining stuff is a bunch of CRAP. Guys leave because they want to--and if it makes fans feel better to have another "reason"--then so be it. Some like to dream up scenarios that are theatrical "Greg will announce he's staying at the Banquet.....and get a roar of approval...." well how did that turn out? Reality is that he wanted to go and felt he's ready--so he's gone. It's his life and his decision. He doesn't owe any money, any of us fans anything--he did his best and has been a good representative of Georgetown on/off the court. Did Hoyas win as much as he/we hoped? Of course not. Is it just beyond stupid to take anything a player says after a game as 100% truth? Of course. Does it make him less of a Hoya or a bad guy for not having more TEAM success-which last time I checked--your teammates play a part in how the team does--I don't think so. If putting up 19 and 13 is horrible in your lone NCAA appearance--then give me some horrible bigs like that in future. Fact is Greg couldn't returned, been a top 3-5 pick next year and team could've lost in first round just as easily as they could've made run deep in tournament. Players actually control their fate--so the big picture we fans see doesn't mean a damn to them--nor should it. I don't have a mom busting her ass to work 2 jobs, and give him opportunity to play basketball. I don't have a chance to live my dream of playing a pro sport, making millions of dollars, and still getting my degree (Greg still is going to classes and showing more class then some have in bashing everything about him--talking of his basketball skills is fine, but to say he's selfish or owes Georgetown is ridiculous). I wish Greg nothing but the best--and you guys have to see big picture--guys like Johnny O'Bryant who is visiting this weekend (scheduled to unofficially) look up to Greg and guys they hope to be like--and Johnny is from South, a versatile big and you dont' think Greg will be a guy he'd like to talk to? Recruiting is important to eventually getting over the hump-and just because one player's "era" didn't end up as we all hoped--it still isn't a failure if he's a guy who is a student athlete, gave his all and didn't do anything to embarrass the school. You keep getting people/players like Monroe--and get a lot of them--you'll get over the hump. Team's success hasn't been as strong as it was/will be--but a part of that future success is owed to guys like Greg Monroe who came here, succeeded, were very happy/enjoyed their time, and will be making millions--other kids like O'Bryant (good enough student that he's had Harvard after him) list Hoyas highly-as you'll see if you choose to visit Recruiting board. Georgetown is poised to have a special class in '11 and it doesn't happen if you don't "fail" with guys like we've got now. Excellent post, but I would quibble with the pooh-poohing of the collective bargaining contract. That should have been a legitimate issue for any kids who might have been on the fence with respect to their decision. I'm not saying Greg was on the fence - I have a feeling he really wasn't. But the fact is there is a distinct possibility of a lockout in 2012, and if there is a new contract in place, it's not unreasonable to think that the salary structure for rookies could take a hit. If I were a lottery pick this year, I would certainly factor that in to my choice.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Apr 20, 2010 13:32:41 GMT -5
If he was worried about the CBA--then best way to assure you'll get paid--return to school, be the #1 overall pick and you will get paid. He is taking more of a risk coming out this year in terms of his immediate financial status. If he goes lower then top 5--and near 10-12 range--he'll get less then he would've next year if he was a top 3 pick. He wanted to leave--so he left.
|
|