sweetness
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Post by sweetness on Mar 30, 2010 9:04:27 GMT -5
I think Lavin would be a great hire for St. John's -- his record at UCLA was good and he has the persona to make St. John's more relevant on the recruiting front.
In terms of bitter Matt Doherty the back story there is that he was dying to be its head coach when they hired Norm. Had some influential backers at St. John's pushing for him. So obviously he has not handled his rejection with class.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 30, 2010 9:43:29 GMT -5
Lavin was an underachiever at UCLA who got a few Sweet 16 runs to keep his job. I'm not sure that his record was good -- most of my UCLA friends thought he was incompetent at actual coaching.
That said, the man can recruit.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Mar 30, 2010 10:06:05 GMT -5
Lavin was an underachiever at UCLA who got a few Sweet 16 runs to keep his job. I'm not sure that his record was good -- most of my UCLA friends thought he was incompetent at actual coaching. That said, the man can recruit. a few? he was the coach at ucla for 7 seasons. they went to the tournament in 6 of them. the sweet 16 in 5. thats pretty good.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 30, 2010 10:18:18 GMT -5
He wasn't a bad overall coach, if you include everything.
But Jim Harrick coached the 8 years right before him, went to the NCAAs every year, won a National Title, won three conference titles and had a conference record of 108-36.
Lavin won the conference title in his first year and went to the Elite Eight with Harrick's players. Then went 66-45 in conference and never won another conference title despite some strong recruiting classes (Baron Davis, etc).
He did have NCAA success, which kept saving his job. But this was UCLA, and he was consistently finishing 3-4th in conference with records that were trending down. He bottomed out in 2002-03, when he finished 7-13 in conference, though he did beat Craig Esherick in the toilet bowl.
I don't think he's awful, awful. But UCLA gets good players, and his sequential record sure points to a decline from Harrick. It took Howland 2-3 years to clean up the mess, as well.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Mar 30, 2010 10:33:39 GMT -5
He wasn't a bad overall coach, if you include everything. But Jim Harrick coached the 8 years right before him, went to the NCAAs every year, won a National Title, won three conference titles and had a conference record of 108-36. Lavin won the conference title in his first year and went to the Elite Eight with Harrick's players. Then went 66-45 in conference and never won another conference title despite some strong recruiting classes (Baron Davis, etc). He did have NCAA success, which kept saving his job. But this was UCLA, and he was consistently finishing 3-4th in conference with records that were trending down. He bottomed out in 2002-03, when he finished 7-13 in conference, though he did beat Craig Esherick in the toilet bowl. I don't think he's awful, awful. But UCLA gets good players, and his sequential record sure points to a decline from Harrick. It took Howland 2-3 years to clean up the mess, as well. This really gets me. Harrick also cheated. Like, a lot. At UCLA, he was fired for lying to university investigators about filing false expense reports (the NCAA cleared him). At Georgia (after a stop at URI with Lamar Odom, he got in trouble for paying phone bills and for his son giving players grades they didn't earn. He did so many bad things at Georgia that he was given a seven-year "show cause" ban from coaching. The scuttlebut on Lavin consistently was that he was the scheming assistant who brought down his boss, despite the fact that subsequent actions prove that his boss was a two-bit cheater - that and his failure to win the NCAA championship did him in with boosters. Harrick may have succeeded, but he did it while performing unethical actions (lying to investigators at a minimum and, given his following record, possibly more).
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 30, 2010 10:33:42 GMT -5
Lavin was an underachiever at UCLA who got a few Sweet 16 runs to keep his job. I'm not sure that his record was good -- most of my UCLA friends thought he was incompetent at actual coaching. That said, the man can recruit. These are the same UCLA fans who now want Howland canned.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Mar 30, 2010 10:36:49 GMT -5
Actually, the AD at UCLA has really increased their communication with booster and has had a number of events to support Howland. He is there for a while, I would think.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 30, 2010 11:12:32 GMT -5
Actually, the AD at UCLA has really increased their communication with booster and has had a number of events to support Howland. He is there for a while, I would think. That doesn't mean there aren't a lot of fans bitching and moaning.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Mar 30, 2010 11:30:00 GMT -5
I thought the people at UGA actually earned the grades they were given, and that was part of the problem.
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Post by vamosalaplaya on Mar 30, 2010 11:32:00 GMT -5
Doherty's point, regardless of context, has merit. The idea that St. John's would attract Billy Donovan or Rick Pitino was a little far fetched. It would seem that McCafferty would have been a good hire, not sure what happened there.
Lavin, with some locally connected NY assistants, would be a great hire for St. John's given the circumstances. You'd see some serious talent show up pretty quickly for the program.
With coaching and expectatioins it's all relative. Lavin's record at UCLA was pretty darn good.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Mar 30, 2010 12:37:42 GMT -5
Howland is not getting fired. Any Bruin "fan" who thinks he should be is a moron.
I weep for St. John's.
Lavin ranks right down there with Esherick as a coach. Frankly, I'm not even sure he can recruit. Let's face it, UCLA recruits itself. Lavin rode along on the name of the program for a couple years, and then high school kids who would otherwise have considered UCLA started attending Arizona and other schools with real coaches who they knew would help them improve their games. If you don't believe me, ask Bill Walton. By the time he left, he had led the program into the toilet.
As SF pointed out, the only reason Lavin kept saving his job is that his teams seemed to save their best performances for the NCAA Tournament, including upsets of Cincinnati as a one seed and Maryland (and I'll admit, that one bought him a couple years grace with me). Also, the fact is that Lavin was in no way ready to be a head coach when the job was dropped in his lap. That's not his fault. But I still hold against him that he ruined the most storied program in NCAA basketball.
I hope he succeeds at St. John's. I'm just not holding my breath.
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tgo
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Post by tgo on Mar 30, 2010 13:22:47 GMT -5
he ruined the most storied program in NCAA basketball. seems a little much to me. below expectations in westwood, sure UCLA standards/expectations are as high as they should be for being undisputed as one of the 5 greatest programs 5 sweet 16's is underperforming not ruining a program.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Mar 30, 2010 13:27:15 GMT -5
I wish Esherick would have ruined us with 5 sweet 16's.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 30, 2010 14:21:51 GMT -5
Wasn't Lavin on Harrick's staff? Was he somehow missing when they discussed cheating?
I find it hard to believe Lavin is clean.
I'm also not saying that Lavin's firing was necessarily justified. But the reality is, he took over a program a year off a National Title, he had monster recruiting classes and he underachieved by that standard in the regular season.
He routinely saved his season in the NCAAs with a couple of wins, but watching his teams, you never had the idea they were overly well coached.
Do I think he will be awful for SJU? No. And the man can recruit. But do I think he's a great coach? No. I don't think much of his actual coaching skills relative to many of his peers.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 30, 2010 14:31:02 GMT -5
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Mar 30, 2010 14:36:25 GMT -5
"Lavin has been with ESPN the past six years after being fired at UCLA in 2003."
What a pathetic hire. A guy who has been doing TV analysis for the past 6 years. And he's not even one of the better analysts!
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Mar 30, 2010 14:44:03 GMT -5
"Lavin has been with ESPN the past six years after being fired at UCLA in 2003." What a pathetic hire. A guy who has been doing TV analysis for the past 6 years. And he's not even one of the better analysts! Dogbert applies here - would you want career advice from someone who had to work hard?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 30, 2010 14:50:35 GMT -5
I would love to see the Johnnies get back into the Big East picture, but seems that lately, no matter what route they pursue with a coach, they roll snake-eyes.
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harlemhoya
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Post by harlemhoya on Mar 30, 2010 14:53:32 GMT -5
Barry "Slice" Rohrssen will be a great recruiter for Lavin.
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harlemhoya
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Post by harlemhoya on Mar 30, 2010 14:54:28 GMT -5
AAU coaches in NY are very happy with this hire.
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