Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
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Post by Boz on Mar 29, 2010 9:15:57 GMT -5
Is it just me or has this off-season brought out the REAL crackpots? It's not you.
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kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
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Post by kchoya on Mar 29, 2010 9:35:38 GMT -5
Wait, I'm confused. I thought we would do better if our coach ranted and raved on the sideline and acted like UMCP Sweaty? Then how did Butler and Brad Stevens beat KSU and Frank Martin (who I actually like)?
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Post by wrestlemania on Mar 29, 2010 11:18:54 GMT -5
Apart from the two-year post-Iverson blip and the last two Esh seasons, GU hoops has been relevant for most of the past 30 years, and will remain so for the immediate future (I define relevance in terms of NCAA appearances and national rankings).
Now compare to some of the teams who did well in the tournament this year, excluding Mich. St. and Duke: WVU was nothing until about 3-4 years ago; no one has cared about K-State since Mitch Richmond left; Baylor is self-explanatory (Harvey Thomas, call your office); Purdue and Tennessee have been up and down; Butler and Northern Iowa are relatively recent phenomena who benefit mightily from the 3-point shot.
Time passes and things change, except maybe in Lansing, Durham and Chapel Hill. Still, GU has done far better than most. And I must repeat -- if you're unhappy with JTIII, go to the archives and check out some of the other names being kicked around at the time -- would you have preferred to have the guy who coached Air Force and then failed miserably at Princeton?
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Post by westendhoya on Mar 29, 2010 11:25:39 GMT -5
There is nobody better for THIS program than JT3. I don't think anyone (save for fake Hoya flamers on this site) can dispute that.
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Post by HoyaSouth on Mar 29, 2010 11:27:48 GMT -5
My observations are from the last three seasons. The object of competing in college athletics is to win championships. If you have a clean program during the process that's nice too. (But with all the defections JTIII has had, I can't say it's squeaky clean). The last THREE seasons have left a bad taste. And I put that on the coach, because his teams have underachieved. PERIOD.
Again, if you want to lower the bar then that's your right. JTIII isn't even a top 5 coach in his conference let alone the nation. I'm no troll, Im just not a YES man. I cant say YES JTIII is an excellent top 5 coach in the face of the shock and awe that occured at the end of the last three seasons. That mentality will do more harm than good. That same mentality gave Esherick the confidence and audacity to say and think "I'm doing a good job. I'm not going anywhere".
Let's just agree he has work to do. Alot.
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Post by strummer8526 on Mar 29, 2010 11:29:49 GMT -5
My observations are from the last three seasons. The object of competing in college athletics is to win championships. If you have a clean program during the process that's nice too. (But with all the defections JTIII has had, I can't say it's squeaky clean). The last THREE seasons have left a bad taste. And I put that on the coach, because his teams have underachieved. PERIOD. Again, if you want to lower the bar then that's your right. JTIII isn't even a top 5 coach in his conference let alone the nation. I'm no troll, Im just not a YES man. I cant say YES JTIII is an excellent top 5 coach in the face of the shock and awe that occured at the end of the last three seasons. That mentality will do more harm than good. That same mentality gave Esherick the confidence and audacity to say and think "I'm doing a good job. I'm not going anywhere". Let's just agree he has work to do. Alot. Wait, you accuse us of "lowering the bar," but you would be happy with a dirty program (and therefore a dirty Athletic Department and a dirty school) as long as it wins a championship? Get the Edited out of here. Georgetown is better than you.
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Post by bronxhoya87 on Mar 29, 2010 11:39:32 GMT -5
No way JTIII is a top 10 coach right now. Is he top 5 big east? I sure would take Calhoun, Pitino, Jimmy B, and Dixon ahead of him. He needs to restore his luster next season with a huge 30+ win season if Greg stays.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
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Post by guru on Mar 29, 2010 11:45:22 GMT -5
My observations are from the last three seasons. The object of competing in college athletics is to win championships. If you have a clean program during the process that's nice too. (But with all the defections JTIII has had, I can't say it's squeaky clean). The last THREE seasons have left a bad taste. And I put that on the coach, because his teams have underachieved. PERIOD. Again, if you want to lower the bar then that's your right. JTIII isn't even a top 5 coach in his conference let alone the nation. I'm no troll, Im just not a YES man. I cant say YES JTIII is an excellent top 5 coach in the face of the shock and awe that occured at the end of the last three seasons. That mentality will do more harm than good. That same mentality gave Esherick the confidence and audacity to say and think "I'm doing a good job. I'm not going anywhere". Let's just agree he has work to do. Alot. So a clean program is optional in your book? If you hadn't completely devalued your opinion with any serious Georgetown fan before now with your lunatic rants, you just did, pal.
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ceshoya
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 123
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Post by ceshoya on Mar 29, 2010 12:14:50 GMT -5
No way JTIII is a top 10 coach right now. Is he top 5 big east? I sure would take Calhoun, Pitino, Jimmy B, and Dixon ahead of him. He needs to restore his luster next season with a huge 30+ win season if Greg stays. Did you just refer to Boeheim as "Jimmy B."? Sounds like you guys are pretty tight. I wonder how Jimmy C., Ricky P. and Jaime D. feel about that.
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skyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,496
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Post by skyhoya on Mar 29, 2010 12:14:51 GMT -5
Guru, you are usually far off the mark, so please don't criticize others. You are getting to be the most obnoxous poster on the board.
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Post by HoyaSouth on Mar 29, 2010 12:27:53 GMT -5
My observations are from the last three seasons. The object of competing in college athletics is to win championships. If you have a clean program during the process that's nice too. (But with all the defections JTIII has had, I can't say it's squeaky clean). The last THREE seasons have left a bad taste. And I put that on the coach, because his teams have underachieved. PERIOD. Again, if you want to lower the bar then that's your right. JTIII isn't even a top 5 coach in his conference let alone the nation. I'm no troll, Im just not a YES man. I cant say YES JTIII is an excellent top 5 coach in the face of the shock and awe that occured at the end of the last three seasons. That mentality will do more harm than good. That same mentality gave Esherick the confidence and audacity to say and think "I'm doing a good job. I'm not going anywhere". Let's just agree he has work to do. Alot. So a clean program is optional in your book? If you hadn't completely devalued your opinion with any serious Georgetown fan before now with your lunatic rants, you just did, pal. You're parsing my words. I would hope that he runs a program with integrity. And to the people who want me banned, I could care less about that. I could easily watch you lather yourselves in JTIII praises all summer and next fall, then watch the train wreck that ensues at the end of the next season. At this point he has alot to prove to me, my faith in JTIII is shall we say wavering...!
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,790
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 29, 2010 12:46:18 GMT -5
I love how you position that you ever had faith in JTIII, that you've ever been a fan of his, as if you just now are starting to think he isn't a good coach.
Stop trying to paint yourself as reasonable. You have a long history of bashing III, the offensive system, and of only coming on here after losses.
I know your agenda, I just don't know why. I don't really care whether you post or not, but most of us know your commentary is a joke. You don't show up with this crap when we win, so I find your opinion pointless.
And does everyone else, I imagine.
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paranoia2
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 847
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Post by paranoia2 on Mar 29, 2010 13:09:03 GMT -5
I hope some threads can be saved in an archive. JT III is going to have Georgetown knocking on the door or winning an NCAA title as early as NEXT YEAR. Monroe stays and gun to my head I say the Hoyas win it all next year. Period.
After next season with Julian, Monroe, Wright & Austin leaving the Hoyas will fall off right? Wrong. JT III has recruited skilled and high quality kids that will most likely stay for 4 years. If the Hoyas can add Tyrone Johnson & Rakeem Christmas/Mikael Hopkins to a nucleus of Jason Clark, Starks, Hollis, Nate, Moses, Bowen, Sims, Vee and Benimon I believe they will still be title contenders.
This year's team should have had Macklin & Braswell. That was the plan. Plan went awry and now III has reloaded. Monroe stays and the Hoyas are a SUPERTEAM that will BEAT THE HELL out of teams next year. For pete's sake they BEAT THE HELL OUT HALF THE FINAL 4 THIS YEAR.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,135
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Post by RBHoya on Mar 29, 2010 13:10:35 GMT -5
No way JTIII is a top 10 coach right now. Is he top 5 big east? I sure would take Calhoun, Pitino, Jimmy B, and Dixon ahead of him. He needs to restore his luster next season with a huge 30+ win season if Greg stays. Posts like this and the many others like it are what make the whole internet message board fandom thing so idiotic. It's why I should really not read Hoyatalk at this time of the year. The most absurd thing to me is that ALL of the people who Edited and moan about III would be doing the exact same thing if they rooted for another team. Look around the country over the last couple weeks and look at the message boards of all the different fans. See how hard the KU fans ripped Bill Self, or the Villanova fans ripped Jay Wright, or the Maryland fans Gary Williams and so on and so on. See how critical the UConn fans were of Calhoun for most of the season, or how rough the UNC fans (and really everybody's fans) were on Roy Williams all year long. All of these coaches who have at one time or another been lauded as great coaches or doing a great job have been totally torn into by angry fans after bowing out of the tourney (or not making it, in some cases). Truth is that the grass always seems greener. It is easy to see the flaws in our guy and ignore or forget the flaws in others. The same people who bitch about III would have been killing Calhoun all year for having a team with so much talent and not even making the NCAAs, and would have been killing him in 2007 for the same thing. Same people would have been destroying Boeheim for failing to make the dance in back to back years in 2007 and 2008, not to mention getting bounced by Vermont in 2005. Same people would have been killing Dixon for getting ousted early every year and never being able to get over the hump. Same people would have been on Pitino's case for being in the NIT in 2006 and probably for having a very pedestrian "underperforming" year this year too. And all of this doesn't even touch on issues of character and general behavior/representation of the school, on and off the court. And yes, I am aware of the fact that Calhoun, Boeheim and Pitino have titles to back themselves up. But how many years were they high major coaches before they won those titles? Answer: Pitino 11 (includes NBA stint), Calhoun 13, Boeheim 27. Well, Jamie Dixon's a pretty young coach, how many years did it take him to get his first championship/Final 4............oh, wait. Over the last 5 years III is very comparable to anybody in the BE, and it's unfair (and honestly, stupid) to expect him to have a title in 6 years when none of these other guys were close to that. It's a rough game where upsets happen ALL THE TIME. 347 teams playing D-I hoops and 346 go home unhappy. On the message boards of the vast majority you can find some variation of the "This one is on the coach!" type topic after they bow out. It just makes me laugh sometimes how wrapped up in the whole thing some people get, and fail to realize that the exact same thing they're saying about their own coach is being said by fans all across the country about THEIR own guy, yet everybody thinks that their guy is on thin ice and that they could be doing much better off with somebody else. I guess somebody is going to have to show me where all of these fantastic, flawless coaches are hiding out, because with maybe a couple of exceptions I'm seeing very few guys whose resume over the last 5 years is significantly better than III's. College hoops is just too competitive, you almost never see the same school making deep runs every single year. Just too many competitive teams, too much turnover and too small a margin of error in a single-elimination tourney.
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theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,506
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Post by theexorcist on Mar 29, 2010 13:24:05 GMT -5
RB:
If you think that's bad, read Cat's Pause, the UK message board. My favorite thread dealt with how no one will remember the 2010 champion since UK won't win it.
Talk about a frightening and delusional fan base. Compared to them, the Hoyas are nice and normal.
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,927
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 29, 2010 13:32:41 GMT -5
No way JTIII is a top 10 coach right now. Is he top 5 big east? I sure would take Calhoun, Pitino, Jimmy B, and Dixon ahead of him. He needs to restore his luster next season with a huge 30+ win season if Greg stays. Posts like this and the many others like it are what make the whole internet message board fandom thing so idiotic. It's why I should really not read Hoyatalk at this time of the year. The most absurd thing to me is that ALL of the people who Edited and moan about III would be doing the exact same thing if they rooted for another team. Look around the country over the last couple weeks and look at the message boards of all the different fans. See how hard the KU fans ripped Bill Self, or the Villanova fans ripped Jay Wright, or the Maryland fans Gary Williams and so on and so on. See how critical the UConn fans were of Calhoun for most of the season, or how rough the UNC fans (and really everybody's fans) were on Roy Williams all year long. All of these coaches who have at one time or another been lauded as great coaches or doing a great job have been totally torn into by angry fans after bowing out of the tourney (or not making it, in some cases). Truth is that the grass always seems greener. It is easy to see the flaws in our guy and ignore or forget the flaws in others. The same people who bitch about III would have been killing Calhoun all year for having a team with so much talent and not even making the NCAAs, and would have been killing him in 2007 for the same thing. Same people would have been destroying Boeheim for failing to make the dance in back to back years in 2007 and 2008, not to mention getting bounced by Vermont in 2005. Same people would have been killing Dixon for getting ousted early every year and never being able to get over the hump. Same people would have been on Pitino's case for being in the NIT in 2006 and probably for having a very pedestrian "underperforming" year this year too. And all of this doesn't even touch on issues of character and general behavior/representation of the school, on and off the court. And yes, I am aware of the fact that Calhoun, Boeheim and Pitino have titles to back themselves up. But how many years were they high major coaches before they won those titles? Answer: Pitino 11 (includes NBA stint), Calhoun 13, Boeheim 27. Well, Jamie Dixon's a pretty young coach, how many years did it take him to get his first championship/Final 4............oh, wait. Over the last 5 years III is very comparable to anybody in the BE, and it's unfair (and honestly, stupid) to expect him to have a title in 6 years when none of these other guys were close to that. It's a rough game where upsets happen ALL THE TIME. 347 teams playing D-I hoops and 346 go home unhappy. On the message boards of the vast majority you can find some variation of the "This one is on the coach!" type topic after they bow out. It just makes me laugh sometimes how wrapped up in the whole thing some people get, and fail to realize that the exact same thing they're saying about their own coach is being said by fans all across the country about THEIR own guy, yet everybody thinks that their guy is on thin ice and that they could be doing much better off with somebody else. I guess somebody is going to have to show me where all of these fantastic, flawless coaches are hiding out, because with maybe a couple of exceptions I'm seeing very few guys whose resume over the last 5 years is significantly better than III's. College hoops is just too competitive, you almost never see the same school making deep runs every single year. Just too many competitive teams, too much turnover and too small a margin of error in a single-elimination tourney. Terrific post. Everything I wanted to write but was too damn lazy to summarize in a coherent way. This should end all the bickering, but it won't. Reason and Logic has no place here on HoyaTalk right now.
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,875
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Post by vcjack on Mar 29, 2010 13:37:27 GMT -5
RB: If you think that's bad, read Cat's Pause, the UK message board. My favorite thread dealt with how no one will remember the 2010 champion since UK won't win it. Talk about a frightening and delusional fan base. Compared to them, the Hoyas are nice and normal. Or try reading the Maryland board ever. Instead of having brief spurts of anti-coach hysteria that interrupt general good vibes (like here), they have spurts of pro-Gary exuberance (only after wins over UNC or Due) which interrupts the FIRE GARY!!!111 HE CANT RECRUIT! mantras that happen after every loss. But sense making wild claims is fun I will add this: Getting rid of JTIII = the death of Georgetown Athletics (not just basketball, every sport). Pope Benedict's job is in more peril than JTIII's
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,135
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Post by RBHoya on Mar 29, 2010 13:42:47 GMT -5
For "Bronxie"....Over the last 5 years: Big East Regular Season Titles: JTIII: 2 Boeheim: 1 Pitino: 1 Calhoun:1 (or .5, technically) Dixon:0 Big East Tourney Championships Boeheim: 2 JTIII: 1 Pitino: 1 Dixon: 1 Calhoun: 0 NCAA Tourney Appearances Dixon: 5 JTIII: 4 Pitino: 4 Boeheim: 3 Calhoun: 3 Sweet 16s: JTIII: 2 Boeheim:2 Dixon: 2 Pitino: 2 Calhoun: 2 Final 4s JTIII: 1 Calhoun:1 Pitino: 0 Boeheim: 0 Dixon: 0 Championships None for anyone. Just for good measure... Age Calhoun: 67 Boeheim: 65 Pitino: 57 Dixon: 44 (and 4 months) JTIII: 44 (and 2 weeks ) Years as Head Coach at a High Major or in the NBA Boeheim: 34 Calhoun: 26 Pitino: 25 Dixon: 7 JTIII: 6
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Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
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Post by Boz on Mar 29, 2010 13:49:53 GMT -5
RB brings the numbers FTW.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Mar 29, 2010 13:51:40 GMT -5
THANK YOU RB....if anyone can argue with any of your two posts well....they're more than idiots
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