hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Mar 1, 2010 0:17:54 GMT -5
I mentioned it in another thread, but I think we would all have been pretty much satisfied with a silver medal prediction if told 2 weeks ago. But when you get that close to the promised land, esecially in the come-back fashion we did, it makes coming up short all the more stinging. Additionally, and now that it's over, I guess it's fair to throw out some sour grapes. I understand the seeding/bracketing is "fair," at least in as far as to say that each team starts in the same position. But anytime you win all of your games, including one over the ultimate opponent, while they stumble earlier, but then win in the rematch, it sure feels like you tied and should at least have a rubber match.
I know the College World Series used to be in the same situation. They would bracket teams in a 2 groups in a double elimination format, but then have the winners play in a single game title match. At least now, they have a best 2 of 3 for the bracket winners. All though, I'm not sure we would have much of a shot at winning 2 straight against Canada in this particular situation, even were they to have such a format.
But all in all, congratulations USA, for a fine showing on the ice and in Vancouver in general for the past several weeks.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Mar 1, 2010 0:32:21 GMT -5
So, was the pregame comment that maybe 3 guys on Team USA would even make Team Canada's roster accurate, or hyperbole? Despite my latitude, don't follow pro hockey much. I think it is a bit of a hyperbole, but only some what. Zach Parise and Ryan Miller (the best goalie in the league right now, Olympic performance or not) would be on the team easy. Kane would make it also. Backes has played him self into a guy who would have been amazing as a fourth liner for Canada, but not sure how they would have justified him over some of the other guys they chose. As for other, most of the "stars" for USA are young. In four years Jack Johnson, Bobby Ryan, Paul Statsny, Eric Johnson are all going to be extremely good hockey players. Johnathan Quick has the talent now to be an amazing Goalie, but you just never know with goalies (Right boz? how is vezina winner Timmy T doing?) The future of USA international/olympic hockey is bright. Most of the guys i mentioned are 25 or younger and the US junior team won the world championships this year and they have some great talent (like Caps prospect John Carlson). I think 3 is low, id say maybe 5, but out side of parise and miller they would be competing for 3/4 line duties or 5,6,7 d-man, not top line/pair stuff.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Mar 1, 2010 14:27:35 GMT -5
I thought both teams came out very slow and methodical in OT. Definitely playing very careful in the first 5-6 minutes. It opened up a bit after that, but I didn't thin Canada had a real big advantage. They just made a great play to free Crosby and he got it done. Shame that with all of the saves Miller made in the tournament and in the game, that was the one he let go by though. I know he wished he had that one back, because I was sure he was going to stop it. What a completely fantastic tournament though. Completely agreed on all counts. Both teams were taking it easy in OT. Iginla made a great assist on the game winner. The sad thing is that if the game winner had been Crosby to Iginla, all the attention would be on Crosby's assist. As it is, all we're going to hear for the next gazillion years is how Crosby is the great Canadian hero. If any other Canadian player had scored the game winner, I'd have been disappointed but okay with the outcome. But Crosby getting the winner leaves a really bitter taste. That said, it was an incredible tournament. Usually when people talk about "The Greatest _______ of all time," they have no knowledge of history and are just speaking in hyperbole. But I honestly think that may have been the Greatest Hockey Tournament of All Time. And I also agree with jgalt - the future of Team USA is very bright. Brian Burke took a huge gamble in going so young with this team, but it payed off in a huge way in this tournament, and I think it's going to keep paying big dividends in the future.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Mar 1, 2010 15:39:17 GMT -5
Refresh me on the overtime goal. It all happened so fast. I know there was some center ice turnover, and Crosby was heading to the goal but there were two defenders in front of him. I know he split them and had an offbalance swing at the puck. It went to the left of the goal and I thought the danger was over. I glanced away for a split second but then Crosby had the puck with a free look from about 25 feet. Miller had no chance. What exactly happened?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 1, 2010 15:52:29 GMT -5
I would have been okay with a loss to Canada if anyone other than Crosby was involved in the winning goal.
Ugh, I do not want to read this the rest of the year.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Mar 1, 2010 16:30:31 GMT -5
The only solace i take is that #ihatecrosby (or something similar) was trending like crazy on twitter last night. If you want to get cynical, the NHL shouldnt be happy that their darling child crushed the hearts of millions of americans who the NHL is trying to make its fans. ESPN had some crappy polls yesterday about "will you watch more NHL because of the Olympics" it was like 65% NO. but it is a stupid question because i would say "no i wont" but that is only because i cant possibly watch more hockey than i do now unless i were to buy center ice and tape the games and watch them later after the Caps play and i think that is a little excessive Because there isnt anything to get worked up about, like a blown call or something, ill post this and point to how stupid and irritating people can be: sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/What-We-Learned-Congrats-to-the-little-juggerna?urn=nhl,224853 I agree with everything in the first part of the article, and if you read the story linked in the fourth paragraph, it is comical how people can think that Canada was vastly more talented than the US (see my prior post) any way, NHL starts back up tonight. YAY See ya in Sochi, Olympics.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Mar 1, 2010 19:05:14 GMT -5
I'm not a big hockey follower, so I'm just wondering, why all the Crosby hate?
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Mar 2, 2010 2:15:46 GMT -5
This is why Bettman needs to get his head out of his tail: www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=519476The Gold Medal Game had more viewers in the US than the most recent Rose Bowl, most-watched World Series game, NCAA basketball national championship game, most-watched NBA Finals game, and Daytona 500. And yet Bettman still can't see how great this Olympic tournament was for the game of hockey.
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mchoya
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Post by mchoya on Mar 2, 2010 9:21:20 GMT -5
This is why Bettman needs to get his head out of his tail: www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=519476The Gold Medal Game had more viewers in the US than the most recent Rose Bowl, most-watched World Series game, NCAA basketball national championship game, most-watched NBA Finals game, and Daytona 500. And yet Bettman still can't see how great this Olympic tournament was for the game of hockey. Let's not jump to any conclusions yet. The Olympic tourney is great for hockey, not Bettman's brand of hockey. I want to see the ratings for games next week and the playoffs and see how they compare to last year's- if the ratings jump, he's gotta ensure that the NHL players are back. Otherwise, look at what Selig did with baseball- he said his property is more valuable than the Olympics and he wasn't going to interrupt his season for them. In that regard, he was right. Bettman is a moron for other reasons, though. If he doesn't take advantage of the impending NBA lockout and get his league more visibility, the NHL will have blown its best growth opportunity.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Mar 2, 2010 11:02:21 GMT -5
I can't speak for everyone, but I can say why I hate Crosby.
Crosby came into the NHL with all kinds of hype about how he was basically the chosen one. To his credit, he has pretty much been as good as advertised. However, another young player arrived at the same time. Alexander Ovechkin is every bit the scorer Crosby is, but he also plays a physical game that makes him even more endearing to most hockey fans. You know how sportscasters say things like "I was talking to his coach and he said 'Player X is a Sport X Player,' and I can't think of a higher compliment"? That's kind of how I, and I think many, hockey fans feel about Ovechkin. And while the NHL has certainly promoted Ovie and his Caps, it seems like Crosby and the Pens get all the really fawning adoration. I suspect this has something to do with the fact that Crosby is Canadian, and Ovechkin is Russian.
I may be overplaying the Ovie/Crosby thing, but I know that my father, my brother, and I all independently and immediately loved Ovechkin and hated Crosby after each started playing in the NHL.
I also have a personal disdain for him because I'm a Rangers fan, and Crosby is in our division, and the Pens beat the Rangers in a playoff series a couple years ago that seemed, um, tilted in favor of getting the Golden Boy into the Finals.
As for the Olympic final, it was especially frustrating because Crosby was totally invisible for that entire game. The only notable play he made was that breakaway, which Kane neutralized with a great backcheck. For him to emerge as the hero for Canada seems wrong.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Mar 2, 2010 11:30:25 GMT -5
I can't speak for everyone, but I can say why I hate Crosby. Crosby came into the NHL with all kinds of hype about how he was basically the chosen one. To his credit, he has pretty much been as good as advertised. However, another young player arrived at the same time. Alexander Ovechkin is every bit the scorer Crosby is, but he also plays a physical game that makes him even more endearing to most hockey fans. You know how sportscasters say things like "I was talking to his coach and he said 'Player X is a Sport X Player,' and I can't think of a higher compliment"? That's kind of how I, and I think many, hockey fans feel about Ovechkin. And while the NHL has certainly promoted Ovie and his Caps, it seems like Crosby and the Pens get all the really fawning adoration. I suspect this has something to do with the fact that Crosby is Canadian, and Ovechkin is Russian. I may be overplaying the Ovie/Crosby thing, but I know that my father, my brother, and I all independently and immediately loved Ovechkin and hated Crosby after each started playing in the NHL. I also have a personal disdain for him because I'm a Rangers fan, and Crosby is in our division, and the Pens beat the Rangers in a playoff series a couple years ago that seemed, um, tilted in favor of getting the Golden Boy into the Finals. As for the Olympic final, it was especially frustrating because Crosby was totally invisible for that entire game. The only notable play he made was that breakaway, which Kane neutralized with a great backcheck. For him to emerge as the hero for Canada seems wrong. Yes, but could you say the same thing if Crosby played for the Caps and Ovechkin played for the Penguins? I'm not trying to start an argument, just posing a question.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Mar 2, 2010 11:46:54 GMT -5
This is why Bettman needs to get his head out of his tail: www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=519476The Gold Medal Game had more viewers in the US than the most recent Rose Bowl, most-watched World Series game, NCAA basketball national championship game, most-watched NBA Finals game, and Daytona 500. And yet Bettman still can't see how great this Olympic tournament was for the game of hockey. Let's not jump to any conclusions yet. The Olympic tourney is great for hockey, not Bettman's brand of hockey. I want to see the ratings for games next week and the playoffs and see how they compare to last year's- if the ratings jump, he's gotta ensure that the NHL players are back. Otherwise, look at what Selig did with baseball- he said his property is more valuable than the Olympics and he wasn't going to interrupt his season for them. In that regard, he was right. Bettman is a moron for other reasons, though. If he doesn't take advantage of the impending NBA lockout and get his league more visibility, the NHL will have blown its best growth opportunity. If there isn't a big ratings bump after THAT Olympic tournament, then Bettman has totally squandered the biggest gift he ever got. As far as Crosby, CTHoya makes a good point about Ovechkin's style of play. The other big thing is that Crosby's whining act was much more pronounced when he first came into the league, which meant he was an even bigger contrast with Ovechkin's bus vs. pedestrians in crosswalk impersonation. But the main reason I can't stand Crosby is that he's on the Penguins. The Caps and Pens were rivals even before Ovie and Crosby came on the scene, but their arrival has re-ignited the rivalry in a huge way. So I freely admit that if they were on opposite teams, I'd probably feel very different about them.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Mar 2, 2010 12:55:08 GMT -5
So it sounds a little bit like a combination of he's Tim Tebow and he plays for Syracuse.
He doesn't really sound like a bad kid.
Speaking of Ovechkin, I see he's thrown the guantlet down to Bettman re the 2014 Olympics, and I imagine other Russian players will follow his lead.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Mar 2, 2010 13:10:42 GMT -5
Sidney Crosby is an amazing player. Amazing.
Not pretty good. Not an "all-star." Not even, "he's a great player."
He is amazing!
He has earned every bit of the hype he received in coming into the league. He is a generational player (as in, guys as good as him only come around about once a generation).
I can understand why Caps fans hate him, because Alex Ovechkin is every bit of just as amazing (and, yes, maybe even more).
I can understand why fans of rival teams hate him, because he is going to be beating you a LOT for many years to come.
But no hockey fan should ever hate him.
I sure don't.
And if the US had to go down in the gold medal game, personally, I think it's only fitting that we went down to one of the best two players in the league.
Moreover, Sidney Crosby is great for the NHL. But that's a whole 'nother thing.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Mar 2, 2010 14:46:15 GMT -5
I can't speak for everyone, but I can say why I hate Crosby. Crosby came into the NHL with all kinds of hype about how he was basically the chosen one. To his credit, he has pretty much been as good as advertised. However, another young player arrived at the same time. Alexander Ovechkin is every bit the scorer Crosby is, but he also plays a physical game that makes him even more endearing to most hockey fans. You know how sportscasters say things like "I was talking to his coach and he said 'Player X is a Sport X Player,' and I can't think of a higher compliment"? That's kind of how I, and I think many, hockey fans feel about Ovechkin. And while the NHL has certainly promoted Ovie and his Caps, it seems like Crosby and the Pens get all the really fawning adoration. I suspect this has something to do with the fact that Crosby is Canadian, and Ovechkin is Russian. I may be overplaying the Ovie/Crosby thing, but I know that my father, my brother, and I all independently and immediately loved Ovechkin and hated Crosby after each started playing in the NHL. I also have a personal disdain for him because I'm a Rangers fan, and Crosby is in our division, and the Pens beat the Rangers in a playoff series a couple years ago that seemed, um, tilted in favor of getting the Golden Boy into the Finals. As for the Olympic final, it was especially frustrating because Crosby was totally invisible for that entire game. The only notable play he made was that breakaway, which Kane neutralized with a great backcheck. For him to emerge as the hero for Canada seems wrong. Yes, but could you say the same thing if Crosby played for the Caps and Ovechkin played for the Penguins? I'm not trying to start an argument, just posing a question. Maybe, maybe not. The divisional rival aspect would be gone, but the golden boy treatment would probably still be the same. As Boz said, he is great player, and he is fun to watch, I just don't like him. Agree that he's good for the NHL.
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Mar 2, 2010 16:53:13 GMT -5
If there isn't a big ratings bump after THAT Olympic tournament, then Bettman has totally squandered the biggest gift he ever got. I was going to respond to this but this article does a better job It's not even close to the same talent gap as World Cup vs. MLS, but it's a pretty similar story IMO.
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mchoya
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Post by mchoya on Mar 2, 2010 17:23:15 GMT -5
[ It's not even close to the same talent gap as World Cup vs. MLS, but it's a pretty similar story IMO. The problem is that you are looking at the wrong league to compare. The EPL and UEFA Champions League are doing very well for themselves in the United States. Fans will go to the good, top-of-the-line competition outside of the international tournament if they like the product.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Mar 2, 2010 21:37:47 GMT -5
Here is my completely biased list of reasons i hate Crosby (well hate only in a sports sense, because im sure hes a nice guy and all, but you know). First thing, the caveat, hes a great player yeah yeah yeah blah blah blah, thats the not the issue. Ok to the list. Exhibit A: This video (end of post) tinyurl.com/y8o3m8s yeah it is long, and you can just read the post to get the gist. The real problem is that this is how the media (especially the canadian media) wants to have it be: Sid is a Boy Scout who helps old ladies across the street while Ovie knocks them over. There is no mention of all the charity work that Ovie does as well. Every NHL player that makes enough money and even those who dont do copious amounts of Charity works, but when Sid does any its like he is the only one in the league who even thinks of doing it. Every miss step by Ovie is a dirty play that requires suspension while Sid punches a guy in the nuts (literally, here is the video ) multiple times but there is just a little outrage and no calls for suspension. (just to put it out there there are three things wrong with what he did in the video 1) attacked a guy already enganged with someone 2) punched him in the back of the head and 3) hit him in the nuts- the last tow are illegal in MMA MM f'in A!! which is literally two guys beating the crap out of each other). Exhibit B (the rest arent so much exhibits as opinions): The Penguin Factor. Caps-Penguins. A rivalry that I have been on the short end of my entire life. This is simple I just cant like them. (I will say though that i dont have the same hate for Malkin as I do Crosby, but I do not like Jordan Staal who i view as Crosby little errand boy) Exhibit C: Pittsburgh fans. This is more of a total Pittsburgh thing because i hate Steelers fans too for a similar reason. They are, in this decade, band wagon fans. That is a simple fact (and this doesnt mean i dont appreciate that the same can be said of many Capitals fans too). Pens fans like to talk about their many sell outs and how the team gets all the ratings (what else will they do if not watch TV in Pittsburgh!!) and how they are soooo loyal to their team. They also like to talk about how the Verizon Center used to be so empty even with the 'Best" player in the world there. This is just selective history. If you look at attendance records for the season where the Caps and Pens were the two worst teams in the league (i.e. pre lock out 2000s), neither team had great attendance (like 55% or something), but the Caps OUT DREW the Pens by a few thousand people. Both teams have band wagon fans, everyteam has bandwagon fans, even Canadian teams. People dont want to watch crappy sports. That is just the way it is and there is nothing wrong with it. But for them to insinuate that they have always been there for their team is just lies. Exhibit D: The Olympics. CT already said this point very eloquently. Crosby was a non-factor except for that goal and yes it won the game, but he did not carry his team. Iginla was better, Luongo was better, heck Kane was better, in the elimination round than Crosby. And it all makes Mike Wilbons most recent article all the more outrageous. Exhibit E: The Cup Arguement. Many in the hockey media like to point to Crosby having a cup as proof his is the better of the two players. But these same media types will often point to how as a sport, hockey is the most team orientated; that that egos are set aside unlike in the NBA and that it takes a whole team to win a Cup; third and fourth line grinders are held to mythical proportions because of their efforts to block shots and sacrifice their bodies. If the latter is true, then how does a team award make one individual a better player? Is it not the place of the individual awards to name the best individual players? Exhibit F: The Whining. This has lessened this season. At least visibly. But he can really live up to the name Crysby. In the playoffs last year in Game 1 against the Caps, Ovie scored a hat trick on home ice. Hats rained down as they have for years and years in the NHL. It is a tradition as revered as the Lambeau Leap, as honored as drinking the milk after the Indy 500, it is hockey and should be respected. But no, Crosby asked the officials to make an announcement of the PA! for fans to STOP THROWING HATS ON THE ICE!!!! I mean come on! He even had the gall to later claim he was not complaining...ugh dude that is the definition of complaining. I could go on and on; i could point to how goals mean more than assists; i could point to how Ovie is much more willing to hit or how his points per game is better; i could talk about how Ovie is a game changer; or how, even though they are tied in goals at the moment, Sid has had 34! games with out a goal while Ovie has only 23. The fact is that most of the hate comes from all the attention he gets. And to be honest is not his fault, even though some of the things he does back up the idea that he is a little bitch. Hes a nice kid who is Amazing at hockey. But he is not head and shoulders better than Ovechkin, and he is DEFINATELY not the next Great One, as some in the media have ignorantly said. Ok enough, back to studying.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Mar 3, 2010 0:30:17 GMT -5
If there isn't a big ratings bump after THAT Olympic tournament, then Bettman has totally squandered the biggest gift he ever got. I was going to respond to this but this article does a better job It's not even close to the same talent gap as World Cup vs. MLS, but it's a pretty similar story IMO. My problem with that article is that it doesn't take into account the NHL's unfulfilled potential. In terms of fanbase, the NHL is an underperforming league. The Olympics could do a lot to bring it up to the level it should be at. I think there are lot of potential NHL fans out there who aren't watching hockey. These are people who would love hockey if they actually watched games, but for whatever reason they haven't been properly exposed to it. There's also the people who used to love hockey but drifted away because of the lockout. These people will become hockey fans if they give hockey a chance. I came across a ton of these people just at Georgetown. A couple of my friends had barely seen a hockey game in their lives, but I got them to watch a few games with me last season. One of them is now considering getting Caps season tickets for next year, and the other diligently finds a way to watch every single Caps game from London. Another example: My roommate and I like to invite friends over to watch hockey games on TV. We usually have one or two friends per game, and we vary it a lot and bring a lot of people who aren't hockey fans. The night usually starts with the friend asking what icing is, and ends with a new hockey fan asking if we can get tickets to an upcoming Caps game. The Olympics are a perfect draw for these sorts of people. They've never watched a hockey game before, or they haven't watched one in years, but they watched the Gold Medal Game and really enjoyed it. If the NHL can get them to follow up on that and watch an NHL game or two, there's a great chance that they'll get hooked. Sure, the NHL game they see won't be as awesome as that gold medal game was, but they still enjoy the NHL game if they give it a chance. The Olympics boost the NHL should be seeking isn't about making fans out of people who shouldn't like hockey, it's about getting people who should have been hockey fans all along to watch the NHL. Based on my experience, there's a lot of them.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Mar 3, 2010 8:59:41 GMT -5
I don't think I've ever been this proud of Pittsburgh fans: www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/02/AR2010030203728.htmlPITTSBURGH -- Buffalo Sabres goaltender Ryan Miller received a standing ovation in Pittsburgh on Tuesday night for leading the United States to an Olympic silver medal - cheers louder than those given the Penguins' own Sidney Crosby ... There was a mixed reaction when a replay of Crosby's game-winning goal was shown on the Mellon Arena scoreboard, with some cheering but also audible booing. Later in the game, when the replay was shown again during a break in play, there were noticeably more boos than cheers.
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