NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Feb 6, 2010 19:14:49 GMT -5
I actually really like Jay Wright, but is Villanova going too far this season with the "scrappiness"? Their games routinely last over 2 hours because they hack away and wear down the refs and opponents. I guess it is a strategy that works, but it seems to be left unsaid by the media that Nova clearly uses their depth to make the game into an unwatchable slopfest. I really do not enjoy our games against them due to the grabbing and holding, much of which, does not get called. It is tough to tell if Nova is truly talented or just 10 deep with 50 fouls to give.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Feb 6, 2010 19:16:45 GMT -5
Scottie reynolds commits an offensive foul every time he has the ball. Period.
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Locker
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Post by Locker on Feb 6, 2010 19:20:16 GMT -5
Yes, and I don't think this year is any different. Both on and especially off the ball, it's nonstop: grab, grab, grab, push, flop, repeat. Didn't happen really today, but how many times in the past few years have we seen Scottie get caught on the switch with our big man down low, and he just wrestles and pushes until the inevitable flop comes? It's a team of Lance Thomases that way.
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paranoia2
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Post by paranoia2 on Feb 6, 2010 19:22:58 GMT -5
Villanova has very talented perimeter guys in Stokes, Wayans, Fischer and Reynolds. The bigs simply cannot play defense or rebound without fouling. Gaylord King fouled out but he committed at least 8 fouls during his minutes. Yarou (sp?) moves like his sneakers were dipped in cement, Pena is undersized and Sutton is another hatchet man that offers nothing on both sides of the floor. Syracuse will wax Villanova when they play and Nova will be lucky to get to the sweet 16.
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 6, 2010 19:25:39 GMT -5
Scottie reynolds commits an offensive foul every time he has the ball. Period. The amount of contact he gets away using his guard-arm on the dribble is absolutely ridiculous. |
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Feb 6, 2010 19:28:39 GMT -5
Yes thats how they play. This year last year. They are small and can't really defend even more so toda,y its the equalizer. You can only call so many fouls and keep it inside of a 4 hour game. Its about time the league officials wake up. I'm in total agreement with bubblevision buts its not just scotty its stokes and wayns and fisher they all get away with it all game long. every game.
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hoyaalf
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Post by hoyaalf on Feb 6, 2010 19:34:28 GMT -5
None of that is, "dirty," as I understand it.
Dirty is undercutting a lay-up driver, a high elbow swing toward a head, a kick in the scrum.
Holding on to my jersey is just annoying.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Feb 6, 2010 19:44:55 GMT -5
None of that is, "dirty," as I understand it. Dirty is undercutting a lay-up driver, a high elbow swing toward a head, a kick in the scrum. Holding on to my jersey is just annoying. Beat me to it. Not dirty, simply annoying. |
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PopeJohn2
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Feb 6, 2010 19:48:43 GMT -5
not at all.
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Locker
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Post by Locker on Feb 6, 2010 20:01:34 GMT -5
None of that is, "dirty," as I understand it. Dirty is undercutting a lay-up driver, a high elbow swing toward a head, a kick in the scrum. Holding on to my jersey is just annoying. Point taken, though I'm pretty sure we've seen Scottie undercut a lay-up driver. Didn't he have a terrible one on Freeman in the first game? I think flopping is a dirty play, though others may disagree. |
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Feb 6, 2010 20:05:42 GMT -5
No i don't think its dirty just good strategy.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Feb 6, 2010 20:16:28 GMT -5
Maybe dirty is not the right word, how about "overly aggressive". I agree about Scottie, he uses that off arm more than any guard I have seen.
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Feb 6, 2010 20:18:34 GMT -5
Change the title then. I hate Nova as much as anyone, but this thread is just embarrassing.
hm
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hoyaalf
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Post by hoyaalf on Feb 6, 2010 20:22:21 GMT -5
how about, 'uses excessive gamesmanship to turn a game into a debate.'
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Feb 6, 2010 20:24:34 GMT -5
Change the title then. I hate Nova as much as anyone, but this thread is just embarrassing. hm I changed the title, but what was the emabarassing part of the thread? For one, not everyone disagreed. Two, it is a shame we can never field a provocative question on this board, without the poo poo parade coming out to call it "stupid" or "embarassing". It is a freaking message board. |
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Locker
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Post by Locker on Feb 6, 2010 20:26:46 GMT -5
Maybe there's no such thing as a dirty team in college basketball.
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hoyaalf
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Post by hoyaalf on Feb 6, 2010 20:33:43 GMT -5
Just let'em play.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Feb 6, 2010 20:44:50 GMT -5
None of that is, "dirty," as I understand it. Dirty is undercutting a lay-up driver, a high elbow swing toward a head, a kick in the scrum. Holding on to my jersey is just annoying. Beat me to it. Not dirty, simply annoying. Count me in here too. They play a good zone trap in the backcourt, which routinely takes 8-10 seconds off the shot clock before a team can set their offense. They play very aggressive defense on the perimeter, and they attack off the dribble when they're not "doin' it rong" offensively. Everyone hates Scottie Reynolds' pump fake that he parlays into cheap three shot fouls by leaning into a defender. Yes, that's annoying. But you know what? Given how often GU defenders were biting on the shot fakes at the perimeter in the first 20-25 minutes, it was a solid adjustment for Villanova to make in the second half. It only goes so far though...the other team can sniff it out--Reynolds had easily 8-10 attempts where he turned the ball over, almost did but was bailed out by a teammate, or launched a terrible shot because nobody bought his fake. Indeed, SOME of it is a cat and mouse game. GU sniffed out what Nova guards were doing in the first half. Up in Philly, what I saw in the first half was all drive and dish--get past the first level of defense and kick/dump down for easy buckets when the interior D commits. In the first half today, the perimeter defenders were able to stay with their man and funnel them to the waiting help defense that resulted in a big number of player control fouls going against Villanova. By the second half, Nova adjusted and went to the shot fake game and--finally--started to use mid-range shots to avoid the charge (that's on them for waiting so long). What gets people is the "scrappiness" and the frequent scrums...you don't notice it as much at the arena (at least I don't) but I was surprised how much the announcers focused in on the chatter between players and rough play. That does place a big burden on officials. Of course the question: given that Nova committed 38 fouls and GU went to the line 50 times, aren't they at least getting a fair number of calls right? Never was the foul disparity really that close, except a few cheapies after Wright's technical... ...which, by the way, was totally calculated. He wanted that one for at least 5 minutes, but he was building to it...he would curse and complain at calls, but while facing the bench or the crowd, vice an official. He waited until a key moment--not the most egregious call of the bunch, just one where the team needed a kick in the pants--and got himself rung up with the nearest official. Nothing more--the "hold me back" nonsense with the coaching staff is all show. The key question here, raised above: can Nova sustain a postseason run w/o more contribution from their interior players on the defensive end? They can run Pena (fouled out), King (ditto), Yarou, Armwood, and Sutton (nice that the gym manager gets some run) to burn fouls...but what else are they offering? Nova has a pretty hard schedule going forward...and one wonders: do they have a matchup problem if they hit one of "those" teams in the NCAAs? Not that it isn't working out fine right now--20-1 and 9-0 entering today and sitting pretty at #2. But I'd say there are things to be sorted out. |
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Feb 6, 2010 21:28:02 GMT -5
FLHoya -- if you were at the game you would not have heard ESPN's Doris Burke making exactly the same point about Jay Wright's calculated Technical. I like Doris. She knows the game and gives good, honest insights, like that one.
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hoyaalf
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Post by hoyaalf on Feb 6, 2010 21:33:19 GMT -5
Fl, I like your point re JW's TF.
Not all calls in that flurry were good. I don't blame him questioning the two prior to the TF. They looked close to me. The call which t'eed him up was I think actually a legit call against his team and he knew it.. It was calculated.
But c'mon folks! Dirty is shards of broken glass in the edge of your shoes.
This is all gamesmanship we've been discussing.
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