theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 1, 2010 12:35:21 GMT -5
I'll swap Pitt for Northwestern. Like lic, I have toyed with the idea of a Jesuit or RC conf [sorry, Non-RC Alums]. Problems: !.travel, eg. Gonzaga or any left coast team; 2. eastern over-weighting, The B'East already has most of the better RC schools [I'd take BC back.] Fordham might be worth it [location in NYC]; Duquesne to replace/annoy Pitt; Holy Cross to annoy B.C.; The Dome of the Rockne would be very necessary to keep, annoying ME! Who have I missed? Big Heaven, patent pending. East: Georgetown, Boston College, St. Joseph's, Villanova, St. John's, Seton Hall West: St. Louis, Gonzaga, DePaul, Marquette, Notre Dame, Dayton Add Duqesne, Fordham, or Holy Cross to those who think that Villanova won't let St. Joe's in or if BC decides that playing Clemson on Tuesday night is better than playing in the Kennel. EDIT - Yes, I know BC won't leave due to a lack of football, and that it's a downgrade from the Big East and almost certainly will never happen, but it's just fun to speculate.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 1, 2010 12:46:30 GMT -5
A private/Catholic/no football Big East simply would struggle to maintain its relevance. It wouldn't get priority on ESPN -- while the basketball would be good the alumni bases aren't as large -- and you'd need a massive marketing campaign to keep it top of mind. It's just a bad idea long term. It could work but you'd need to follow certain rules. - No teams not pulling their weight. There needs to be a minimum investment. DePaul doesn't want to hire a big time coach? Out. Providence unwilling to invest? Out. SJU would be a tough one, but this Norm Roberts crap is ridiculous.
- The conference needs to be built for cohesion. There's no reason to have it full of teams that don't make sense, full coast distances or two many teams.
Nine to ten teams. Round robin home and aways. Based on who will commit.
No divisions.
No brainers: Georgetown, Nova, Marquette, Notre Dame, Xavier. No one else is guaranteed in my mind. St. John's for the media market, probably, but they need to make some kind of commitment.
(St. Louis? No. BC's not coming. What a ridiculous thought.)
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 1, 2010 12:49:08 GMT -5
CAREFUL I SEE A METEOR COMING WATCH OUT
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 1, 2010 12:51:54 GMT -5
The best thing that can happen is that the Big East snaps up a football member quickly.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Feb 1, 2010 12:55:40 GMT -5
I'd just like to say that while football conference championship games apparently are big money-makers, I think that they are stupid.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Feb 1, 2010 13:03:40 GMT -5
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Post by vamosalaplaya on Feb 1, 2010 13:04:08 GMT -5
Central Florida just built their own football stadium and has an insane amount of students. Memphis is a better basketball program than Pitt and plays solid football. There are options out there if only one school leaves the conference.
As for the "Catholic Only" conference I think unfortunately it would get crowded out by the football conferences bundling their basketball and football TV contracts. To that end, if you were to do it, load up on big media markets. You need St. Johns & Seton Hall for that reason, and DePaul from Chicago, plus Georgetown, Nova, Marquette and Xavier.
A school like Dayton would make sense from a basketball sense, but you might look at schools like Duquesne, Fordham, and Holy Cross - Fordham and HC have weak home courts - again, just to reach out to more demographics. It's all about the money.
I will say this - I think Notre Dame is thinking about the Big Ten. They have a new AD, and perhaps they realize they need some security for their program. As these conferences align, ND will not be able to keep singing their own tune as it relates to BCS participation indefinitely over the next 15 years.
That is probably the best outcome for the Big East. ND is a fun school to play in basketball, but they don't play football, can be replaced by a football playing basketball school.
But I fear LIC may be right. A 16 team Big Ten or something like that may be in the offering.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 1, 2010 13:15:21 GMT -5
I doubt Notre Dame is thinking about the Big Ten. None of their alumni want it.
I don't think the Big Ten wants anything more than 12 teams. As we've learned, anything else gets a bit unwieldy.
It's likely Pitt or Missouri. I think Cuse makes more sense than Pitt, but I sincerely hope that doesn't happen.
Central Florida would be a good football replacement.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 1, 2010 13:17:08 GMT -5
Another thing to consider:
If the Football schools decide to add two football schools and break off completely, but extend an invitation for the rest of the sports to Nova, us, and another school (Marquette? SJU?), would you take it?
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Feb 1, 2010 13:21:06 GMT -5
Another thing to consider: If the Football schools decide to add two football schools and break off completely, but extend an invitation for the rest of the sports to the Nova, us, and another school (Marquette? SJU?), would you take it? Yes
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Feb 1, 2010 13:36:35 GMT -5
When I heard this it made no sense to me for Pitt.
1) They are in a position to have run of the BE in football. Yeah, it's a second-tier conference, but they get a shot at the BCS every year in the Orange Bowl, and look at this year's team. They'll be top-15 to start the year and if they can run the table, not hard to do in the BE, they'll be in the mix for the national title. They have that set up every year if they want it. Not sure why to jump to the Big-10 when ultimately the money will be the same.
2) As far as football, they'll just always be a mediocre team in the Big 10. Not sure why you'd want to take that on.
3) Basketball-wise, this is a downward move and even they have to know it. They're recuriting, which is so NY based goes into a tailspin. NONE of those kids who have built the program in the last decade are going to Pitt in the Big 10.
4) This is clearly a football move, and I don't know why Notre Dame didn't finally step up, use their last remaining shreds of leverage and negotiate a favorable entry into the Big 10. Is NBC really reupping their contract at an exorbitant sum in the next go-round? Highly unlikely. Those contracts that built ND were based on a low availability of college football and a superior product. Nowadays, there is wall-to-wall college football on AND IT'S ALL BETTER than the crap ND consistently trots out onto the field. I can't see NBC viewing them as relevant enough to overspend on those rights, despite the alumni and Catholic fan base. ND ought to have negotiated an entry that allowed them to keep a good chunk of any exclusive contract, which the Big 10 likely would have jumped at to join the 12-team circus.
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Post by bigelephant on Feb 1, 2010 13:58:52 GMT -5
I KNEW the Princeton Offense would be nothing but trouble!
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 1, 2010 13:59:39 GMT -5
When I heard this it made no sense to me for Pitt. 1) They are in a position to have run of the BE in football. Yeah, it's a second-tier conference, but they get a shot at the BCS every year in the Orange Bowl, and look at this year's team. They'll be top-15 to start the year and if they can run the table, not hard to do in the BE, they'll be in the mix for the national title. They have that set up every year if they want it. Not sure why to jump to the Big-10 when ultimately the money will be the same. 2) As far as football, they'll just always be a mediocre team in the Big 10. Not sure why you'd want to take that on. 3) Basketball-wise, this is a downward move and even they have to know it. They're recuriting, which is so NY based goes into a tailspin. NONE of those kids who have built the program in the last decade are going to Pitt in the Big 10. 4) This is clearly a football move, and I don't know why Notre Dame didn't finally step up, use their last remaining shreds of leverage and negotiate a favorable entry into the Big 10. Is NBC really reupping their contract at an exorbitant sum in the next go-round? Highly unlikely. Those contracts that built ND were based on a low availability of college football and a superior product. Nowadays, there is wall-to-wall college football on AND IT'S ALL BETTER than the crap ND consistently trots out onto the field. I can't see NBC viewing them as relevant enough to overspend on those rights, despite the alumni and Catholic fan base. ND ought to have negotiated an entry that allowed them to keep a good chunk of any exclusive contract, which the Big 10 likely would have jumped at to join the 12-team circus. Pitt would make more money off the Big 10. Much more money. Obscene amounts. There's something to be said for guaranteed money when you're 6-6 every year as opposed to average or lesser money for going 10-2 and losing in the Orange Bowl. And the ND thing partially involves the idea of the university. ND's staff was very uncomfortable with the idea of getting involved with graduate-focused institutions the last time they turned down the proposal. For them, it's about more than money. Of course, the fact that so many people despise them mean that they're still a hot ticket and may get more money from some outlet, be it NBC or someone else.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Feb 1, 2010 14:04:07 GMT -5
IF NBC would do a deal with the B10 and replace ND , like CBS has with the SEC, Notre Dame would be out to lunch on football TV revenue
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Feb 1, 2010 14:06:04 GMT -5
The new Big 10 school is going to be an Association of American Universities research School which means that Pittsburgh , Syracuse, Rutgers and Missouri are the targets. Notre Dame will not be let in so long as Joe Paterno breathes and because it turned the Big 10 down once before. It also has almost no remaining leverage especially since it is now dealing with the Roberts family at Comcast instead of Immelt and Sherrin at GE on its's big NBC contract. I wouldn't be surprised if Com ast bought the Irish out or banished them to MSNBC cable.
Syracuse isn't going because it is too strong a basketball school and needs us and Viilanova and Connecticut and the gang to remain so. It's basketball attendance might rival its football attendance with the Carrier dome.
Pitt is logical since it is furthest west. What the BE needs to do is line up Memphis to replace Pittsburgh which Memphis would love to do.
If the Big 10 goes to 14 teams, which I highly doubt given the football failures of the unwieldy ACC which does not bode well for this, then Georgetown and Villanova will have to move up and play crappy Division 1 football. I really hope this doesn't happen.
Memphis for Pitt is no big deal and would hold the Big east together.
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Feb 1, 2010 14:07:11 GMT -5
I could be mistaken, but the money you're talking about wouldn't come from the BCS.
My understanding is that the BCS money is essentially equal per BCS-conference. So, getting to the Orange Bowl means more money for Pitt than splitting OSU's Rose Bowl take among the conference. The added money, I think, would come from the Big 10's TV contracts with ESPN/ABC for football. My gut would tell me those gains are offset by the money from going to BCS games and the (assumedly) higher Big East TV basketball contract. But, like I said, I could be very very mistaken in my understanding of the monies.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 1, 2010 14:13:06 GMT -5
IF NBC would do a deal with the B10 and replace ND , like CBS has with the SEC, Notre Dame would be out to lunch on football TV revenue The Big Ten has the Big Ten Network. They've bet a lot of money on this. It took ESPN a lot of money to convince the SEC not to do the same thing. So, the Big Ten isn't going to be signing a deal with NBC.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Feb 1, 2010 14:13:32 GMT -5
Hoping against hope, I wish people would look at Internet stories like this with these three words: consider the source. Did this come from the Chicago Tribune or the AP? No. Did it come from a media outlet closely associated with the league? No. Is anyone even remotely identified with the story? No. This came from a blog called "Buckeye Banter", to whom Bleacher Report cut and pasted a story. This is its source: Facebook posts which seemingly do not exist in its archives. That's the problem with unattributed sources--people project abject speculation as fact. Back in 2003-04, someone posted on this board the claim that Georgetown's losing ways under Craig Esherick were part of a secret plot by GU to deemphasize athletics and join the Patriot League under the guise of being unable to compete in basketball, and we rightly shot it down. HoyaTalk doesn't have the national distribution sites like Bleacher Report or Rivals have, but today, stories like that would be nationwide fodder. Given that this claim comes rght before National Signing Day is equally dubious. The Big Ten promised a 12-18 month review and no 11 college presidents (plus Chicago, which is still a member in the CIC) could approve this in a matter of four weeks and in total secrecy. And if the word somehow got out, would they leak it on Facebook? Let's call this for what it is: nonsense. Excellent points. For further confirmation DFW speaks the truth, note that journalists who actually check sources are reporting the rumors are bogus. www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/02/bogus-report-has-pittsburgh-set-to-join-big-ten.html
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Feb 1, 2010 14:15:35 GMT -5
The B10, generally gets two BCS bowls, versus one for the BE. The second bowl is worth $5M, plus they get $4.5m for the Captiol One and $4.5M for the Outback. The BE gets $3M for the Gator
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Feb 1, 2010 14:17:59 GMT -5
the B10 ownes 51% of the BTN, ESPN 49%. But it is not an exclusive, the other networks can cherry-pick games.
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