jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Dec 15, 2009 12:40:35 GMT -5
What about West Virginia? Seems logical from a location, size stand point.
Also, DFW what is AAU?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 15, 2009 12:47:28 GMT -5
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Dec 15, 2009 12:54:26 GMT -5
Interestingly the BT has a bylaw that it cannot expand into states that are not adjacent to a state with a current BT school in it.
Which means any rumor that includes UConn, Arkansas, Maryland or any school like that is garbage
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 15, 2009 13:01:05 GMT -5
So basically that leaves: Buffalo, Iowa st, missouri, nebraska, rutgers, pitt, syracuse, and Maryland Forgot to include them cause of vcjack* that are in boredring states, in the AAU, and play Div I A football.
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Post by fsohoya on Dec 15, 2009 13:04:29 GMT -5
As for B12 teams, why would any of them leave for the B10? They already have a championship game and I would guess make good money from conference revenue. Unfortunately, it looks like BE teams would be the most likely targets, though I could imagine maybe a school like Marshall being brought in if B10 teams must be in states contiguous with other B10 states. If the contiguousness rule does not apply, though, maybe the B10 shoots for TCU or Boise State, two good programs looking for a BCS affiliation.
I suppose my ideal change would be for the B10 to take ND (I know it isn't going to happen) and we bring in Xavier to fill its hoops spot. Otherwise, I hope they leave the BE alone.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Dec 15, 2009 13:04:31 GMT -5
Interestingly the BT has a bylaw that it cannot expand into states that are not adjacent to a state with a current BT school in it. Which means any rumor that includes UConn, Arkansas, Maryland or any school like that is garbage Um, is penn state not in Pennsylvania which is adjacent to Maryland? Last time I checked, there was this thing called the Mason-Dixon line.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 15, 2009 13:07:04 GMT -5
Interestingly the BT has a bylaw that it cannot expand into states that are not adjacent to a state with a current BT school in it. Which means any rumor that includes UConn, Arkansas, Maryland or any school like that is garbage That rule only means something if they can't change it. I have no idea what the bylines are, but it seems to me that expansion is probably a big enough thing that they'd be willing to waive / change that rule for the right school.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Dec 15, 2009 13:10:00 GMT -5
Memphis. I've heard East Carolina as well. Central Florida. The football schools hate Memphis, because their football program is pretty terrible right now. Memphis coming would definitely signal once and for all that we're a basketball conference--which most of us would be cool with, but don't expect Pitt, WVU, USF etc to jump on it. ECU and UCF are probably the best candidates as far as the football schools are concerned, but really there are not a lot of good "free agent" football programs east of the Mississippi. To people brushing off Rutgers going or saying theyr'e not marketable, I disagree. I live/work basically in the shadow of their campus. And yes, it's true that very few people outside of their alumni care about them, although their football program is slowly gaining a little ground. But it basically boils down to this--there are a huge amount of people in NJ, particularly when you include the NYC and the Philly cable markets, which are both enormous. One of the main things the B10 is looking for is to get their Big Ten Network picked up by more cable stations and added as a basic cable channel in more areas. If Rutgers becomes a Big 10 team and is playing on B10 network, and Big Ten Network gets picked up and added to basic cable packages in NJ, the Big Ten will make a TON of money off of that. If you're carried as a basic cable channel in a given area, you get a percentage off of every single basic cable subscriber in that area (at least this is what some of the pro-RU, pro-B10 people I've talked to have explained to me). So it's not even a matter of exactly how many people in the metro area are watching Rutgers--if it's enough to get cable companies to include B10 network in their packages, the conference will make money hand over fist just because of the millions of cable tv subscribers in this market. This is also the reason why Pitt and Cincy don't make sense--those markets already have B10 network due to the Big Ten megapowers already playing in those states (PSU and OSU respectively). Teams like Louisville and WVU don't bring significant markets, and also are not good academic schools. To HSB's question, I'm fairly sure if any Big East school got the offer, they'd jump on it in a second, including Cuse who is almost synonymous with the Big East. It's just a matter of money. The money you make as a B10 member dwarfs what you make in the Big East. Big East football is considered small time by most, and the majority of fans at all these want out. If by some chance the B10 poaches an ACC school (unlikely), then the ACC would probably just turn around and poach a BE school (Cuse, RU), so that doesn't help the BE much either. Best case for the Big East, IMO, would be for Missouri to get invited to the B10 and take it, and then the B12 to get somebody like TCU, Houston, Utah or somebody else to fill that vacancy. Not sure how likely they are to leave the B12 though, I figure less than 50% chance.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Dec 15, 2009 13:11:28 GMT -5
Interestingly the BT has a bylaw that it cannot expand into states that are not adjacent to a state with a current BT school in it. Which means any rumor that includes UConn, Arkansas, Maryland or any school like that is garbage Um, is penn state not in Pennsylvania which is adjacent to Maryland? Last time I checked, there was this thing called the Mason-Dixon line. Ahh damnit I forgot about that part of the state. So amended, the Terps are a player (albeit an extremely unlikely one)
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Dec 15, 2009 13:12:35 GMT -5
Interestingly the BT has a bylaw that it cannot expand into states that are not adjacent to a state with a current BT school in it. Which means any rumor that includes UConn, Arkansas, Maryland or any school like that is garbage Maryland touches PA, which has PSU. But I doubt they're going anywhere. Also, given everything we've seen in college sports the last couple decades I'd bet just about anything that that bylaw would be lifted or waived or overturned or whatever if there was money to be made. But they probably won't have to. EDIT: Aaaaaaand like 3 people beat me to saying the exact same thing.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 15, 2009 13:18:38 GMT -5
To HSB's question, I'm fairly sure if any Big East school got the offer, they'd jump on it in a second, including Cuse who is almost synonymous with the Big East. It's just a matter of money. The money you make as a B10 member dwarfs what you make in the Big East. Big East football is considered small time by most, and the majority of fans at all these want out. If by some chance the B10 poaches an ACC school (unlikely), then the ACC would probably just turn around and poach a BE school (Cuse, RU), so that doesn't help the BE much either. Best case for the Big East, IMO, would be for Missouri to get invited to the B10 and take it, and then the B12 to get somebody like TCU, Houston, Utah or somebody else to fill that vacancy. Not sure how likely they are to leave the B12 though, I figure less than 50% chance. Didn't Boeheim basically make Cuse turn down the ACC? Is there any chance of him pulling the same thing w/ the B10? Or is the B10 and its $$ and old Cuse football rivals such that there'd be no way to stop Cuse from accepting an offer?
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Dec 15, 2009 13:23:22 GMT -5
Boeheim did in fact put the kibosh on the ACC rumors, and there is probably no man more powerful in the SU dept of athletics than Boeheim now that Crouthamel is gone.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Dec 15, 2009 13:24:34 GMT -5
BE teams don't realize that opportunity they have. Having a weak conference means schools like Cincy and Pitt have shots at BCS bowls. That won't happen when you're in with OSU, Michigan, Penn State, etc. Even though the B10 isn't all that good, one of those schools is almost always better than you. Ya, except that you can go 7-5 in the Big 10 and go to a better bowl than a 10-2 Big East team. Or you can go undefeated in the Big East and be the fourth team people are talking about as getting a shot at the national title.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 15, 2009 13:26:31 GMT -5
Didn't Boeheim basically make Cuse turn down the ACC? Is there any chance of him pulling the same thing w/ the B10? Syracuse was one vote away from being accepted by the ACC, until N.C. State chancellor Mary Anne Fox withdrew her support, whereupon the governor of Virginia rallied support to add Virginia Tech instead. Boeheim does not control this vote any more than if JTIII could control whether Georgetown left the Big East.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Dec 15, 2009 13:33:21 GMT -5
As far as I have heard Cuse was all but gone to the ACC, but UVA and the state of VA government would only sign on for expansion if VA Tech was included, so Cuse was dropped for Tech.
Not sure where Jimmy B stands on, but as powerful as he is, not sure if it'd necessarily matter. He is a basketball guy and as far as basketball goes, the Big East is great and provides him with everything he could ask for including rivalries with us and Uconn, a tourney in MSG and lots of other easy places for Orange hoops fans to invade. So naturally he'd side with the Big East. But still football is the primary driver of college sports, its where the money is, and the University could make a lot more money by being in the B10 or the ACC than the big east. College football is and will continue to be the dominant force in college sports, and the Big East is a floundering college football conference that only exists because its members have nowhere else to go. Yes if you're a purely hoops guy like Boeheim it's great, but people who look at the big picture/bottom line would disagree, IMO.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Dec 15, 2009 13:37:11 GMT -5
Fair points - Boeheim was fairly outspoken against the ACC expansion process when it occurred. Those comments did not go unnoticed in the Syracuse area (and nationally). You can bet these carry more weight in Syracuse than the comments of an unproven AD and an unproven football coach. The AD needs to be able to sell whatever happens to the SU community, which is generally reticent to adopt wholesale changes or abandon tradition. Compare ticket sales for SU-GU or SU-UCONN in the Dome to SU-Northwestern and the like.
Of course, these arguments are all hypothetical because we have nothing to establish firmly that they would have defected but for the behind the scenes developments that DFW et al. have mentioned. I suspect SU won't be that involved in this expansion process.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 15, 2009 13:50:09 GMT -5
I like DFW's interpretation of events better than what I'd heard b/c it means that I don't have to like Boeheim for keeping 'Cuse in the Big East where they belong (so we can beat them more often)
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 15, 2009 13:59:44 GMT -5
God I hate college football. I really wish football was never invented.
In an ideal world Basketball would be the primary mover of college sports and the Big east conference would be: Georgetown, Syracuse, Uconn, Pitt, Nova, seton hall, providence, st. john's, ND, WV? or louisiville.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Dec 15, 2009 14:05:56 GMT -5
i can't see su or nd going. i think it will be one of these schools based on
1. Membership in the American Association of Universities (AAU) 2. Located in a state already in the Big 10 footprint or adjacent to the Big 10 footprint.
Rutgers Kansas Maryland Missouri Nebraska Pitt
i think pitt may be the #1 choice (good in both sports and larger market).
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Post by fsohoya on Dec 15, 2009 14:07:10 GMT -5
God I hate college football. I really wish football was never invented. In an ideal world Basketball would be the primary mover of college sports and the Big east conference would be: Georgetown, Syracuse, Uconn, Pitt, Nova, seton hall, providence, st. john's, ND, WV? or louisiville. Absolutely right! Football is dominated by gigantic state schools and only a few privates are regularly competitive. Privates simply can't compete with the sheer size of public school fan bases. Sadly, as football becomes an even bigger driver of college sports it will become harder and harder for private institutions to compete in anything. Indeed, were the B10 to raid the BE we could see the end of the BE as it currently exists, and many of the still-hoops-competitive private schools relegated to second-class status even in basketball.
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