Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 17, 2009 20:56:04 GMT -5
Barry O once claimed to have visited all 57 states. He must also be a dolt.
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Post by hoyachick on Nov 18, 2009 2:24:53 GMT -5
Fair enough, though his was a verbal foible and not a prepared written statement. If one's handlers cannot make one appear smarter than one actually is, why bother having English or government majors? ;D
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Nov 18, 2009 9:46:34 GMT -5
Superstar, indeed. Just take one of today's brilliant quotes from Sarah: If anyone can learn anything from it: it shows why you shouldn't judge a book by its cover, gender, or color of skin. Up until now, I had not known that books could have genders or skin colors. Hers is a dizzying intellect. Sometimes I think Palin exists only so liberals can make fun of her in an attempt to make themselves feel smarter met⋅a⋅phor [met-uh-fawr, -fer] –noun 1. a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance. 2. something used, or regarded as being used, to represent something else; emblem; symbol. As for staff preparing a politician to make intelligent comments, anyone want to venture a guess as to why Barack Obama was 100% unprepared to answer questions about Hiroshima and Nagasaki when he visited Japan a few days ago? Or perhaps he is just an idiot. (Speaking of staff, whoever runs the current White House protocol office should be fired...retroactively if possible)
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Nov 18, 2009 10:29:02 GMT -5
Can some of the conservatives on this board please tell me what is good about Sarah Palin? I understand that she shares some similar viewpoints, but I've never understood why you would want her in a position of authority or power. I know that's a very accusatory question but I just sincerely don't understand the phenomenon around her and I'd like to.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 18, 2009 10:58:15 GMT -5
Can you tell me what is good about the Brilliant Hamlet currently residing at 1600 Pennsylvania? He shares none of my core values and spends every waking moment thinking of ways to apologize for his own nation. When you can explain the phenomenon that is Barry O, who is currently wrecking the nation, I'll answer for Sarah Palin, who is simply hawking a book.
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Nov 18, 2009 11:12:48 GMT -5
I'm not crazy about him. I liked him over McCain due to the differences in their foreign policy, views on gay rights, net neutrality... It was a choice between two people. I like his careful approach to most issues, even though I thought he'd be much more independent than he seems to be, especially on many economic issues. Is that enough to get an answer?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 18, 2009 11:16:32 GMT -5
Fair enough. Now I'll answer your question. Sarah Palin connects with people who work, pay their own bills, meet the mortgage and take their own kids to games. I don't want her to be president, but she speaks to a large group of people who don't need a focus group or a think tank to know right from wrong and BS from fact. She appeals to those folks who know government is rarely the answer and almost always the problem.
She should never get anywhere near the Oval Office except to visit, but to discount her basic approach is to discount a great many good folks.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Nov 18, 2009 11:35:40 GMT -5
I agree with elvado, for the most part. Sarah Palin is a populist. I'm not sure why that's so difficult to understand. Populists are popular. They are populists because they connect with people on a basic, ideological level. They are not trying to amaze people with their brilliance or acuity. They are saying, "these are principles you care about. I care about them too and here are my basic beliefs." Is she an anti-intellectual? Yes, she is. That does not mean "bad," or "evil," or even "stupid." People connect with that too. There are a lot of people in this country -- and though I think I have some pretty good intellectual credentials, there are times when I include myself in this group -- who just want people to speak plainly to them. Not rhetorically, not with every possible nuance, just simple explanations of their beliefs. She is also an unapologetic conservative woman who happens to be pretty goddamn ("gosh darn," if you prefer ) good looking. I don't think I need to explain why there is some allure in that. Do I think she should be President? No, probably not. But nor does that mean that I do not think she has a place -- and a legitimate one -- in the public debate. But honestly, I have to say -- and this goes back to the many pages and pages of debate we had during the Presidential campaign -- with the exception of his ability to deliver a rousing speech, I really don't think Barack Obama was a whole lot more qualified to be President than Sarah Palin was to be Vice President. I think there have been numerous, numerous occasions where that has come to fruition as, (in my opinion) Obama has stepped in it repeatedly in his first year. As for Joe Biden, well, certainly he has a lot of legislative experience, but he is a clown. I like him, I like his family (the ones I know anyway), but he is a clown as vice president. I don't know if there is any polling on this, but I can't believe that Joe Biden has a great deal of credibility with anyone outside of partisan supporters of the administration. I could be wrong on that, but I doubt it. Having said all of this, I don't need to see 18 interviews with and 20 whistle-stop speeches by Sarah Palin in one week.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 18, 2009 11:39:01 GMT -5
Can some of the conservatives on this board please tell me what is good about Sarah Palin? I understand that she shares some similar viewpoints, but I've never understood why you would want her in a position of authority or power. I know that's a very accusatory question but I just sincerely don't understand the phenomenon around her and I'd like to. I think the fact you asked this question says a lot about the liberal mind. First off, Sarah Palin has values which a very large percent of Americans share. As evident from her book and her life, her priorities are God and family. She believes that every human being is a gift of God and each American human being should be provided life and freedom, with a minimum of interference from any government. Implied in this belief system is less government and smaller taxes. Secondly, she believes our country faces significant threats, one of which is our dependence on foreign oil and the threat it may one day be used against us. She is a strong proponent of using the natural gas and the oil available in our country and offshore to eliminate this threat. She is articulate in expressing her views, not in the mode of the current president but in language that resonates with those people the "elites" disdain. Every time she is mocked for saying "you betcha", she gains an ally in parts of America liberals don't relate to. She's charismatic and this, I believe, is what liberals fear. And, believe me, it's fear liberal have that she is capable of developing a following capable of overturning the current Democratic leadership. It's this fear that brings about the attempts to ridicule her and to destroy her by the liberals and the MSM. Would I support her if she ran for president? Don't know. Depends on how she would articulate her vision for America in the months ahead. But if it were a choice between Palin and Obama today, would I support her? You betcha. Liberals and the MSM believe Sarah Palin in dumb, out of her league, because they are incapable of relating to her. They also called Reagan dumb.
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Post by strummer8526 on Nov 18, 2009 12:11:59 GMT -5
Fair enough. Now I'll answer your question. Sarah Palin connects with people who work, pay their own bills, meet the mortgage and take their own kids to games. I don't want her to be president, but she speaks to a large group of people who don't need a focus group or a think tank to know right from wrong and BS from fact. She appeals to those folks who know government is rarely the answer and almost always the problem. She should never get anywhere near the Oval Office except to visit, but to discount her basic approach is to discount a great many good folks. I agree that "her basic approach" has an appeal. Her biggest problem is her apparent disdain for thoughtfulness. There's a difference between "need[ing] a focus group or a think tank" and refusing to pause for a few minutes, read a book, consult with an expert, and arrive at a reasoned decision. I have not once thought for a second that Palin is willing to do the latter. And she's proud of that sort of recklessness. As a side note, I learned this weekend that if you sit Gingrich next to Sharpton (who I don't love on every issue, but I do respect, certainly much more than in his purple jumpsuit days), and he (Gingrich) looks pretty damn good. EDIT: Another note, after reading the pro-Palin posts: You know what's missing? EXPERIENCE. ACCOMPLISHMENT. A PROVEN RECORD. When did you guys stop caring about those?
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Nov 18, 2009 12:31:24 GMT -5
Thanks for looking into my mind, Ed.
You make a great point about why you see her as such a superstar. She believes in God and family, less government, and less dependence on foreign oil. Where else on earth could you find such a unique viewpoint?? Especially wrapped up in someone unable to express any concrete ideas outside of the simplest repetitions of ideological platitudes.
Her charisma scares me not because it makes her popular. The things I see in her make sense when she is viewed as a populist movement, someone who can rally the base towards the cause. I see it differently when I realize that there are people who see her as someone who has shown any sort of potential whatsoever to become President.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 18, 2009 12:53:35 GMT -5
EDIT: Another note, after reading the pro-Palin posts: You know what's missing? EXPERIENCE. ACCOMPLISHMENT. A PROVEN RECORD. When did you guys stop caring about those? [/quote]
Barry O proved you don't need any of those things to be President. Why should she, or anyone else be held to a higher standard? Unless of course there is some sort of preference or affirmative action argument you're making.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 18, 2009 13:17:10 GMT -5
It should be noted that the proven record argument was all but conceded during the campaign by virtue of the loud, frothy-mouthed shouts that Obama was too liberal, a Communist, and the like. In fairness, perhaps such arguments were knowingly disingenuous at that time. Presumably, he would also have a record of accomplishment to substantiate such allegations or some experience in doing so.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 18, 2009 13:32:31 GMT -5
It should be noted that the proven record argument was all but conceded during the campaign by virtue of the loud, frothy-mouthed shouts that Obama was too liberal, a Communist, and the like. In fairness, perhaps such arguments were knowingly disingenuous at that time. Presumably, he would also have a record of accomplishment to substantiate such allegations or some experience in doing so. Presumably he would also have a record? Okay. Where is it? What did he accomplish other than self-serving books? And if self-serving books are the road to the White House for the wholly unqualified, shouldn't Barry O be flattered by Ms. Palin's imitation?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 18, 2009 13:51:19 GMT -5
Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton are alike in more than meets the eye--each has a palpable ambition for a job that they are not otherwise qualified for; though, to be fair, the US tends to elect chief executives with a lack of national and international political experience.
To HRC's credit, she took the job at State to build her credentials, where she could have otherwise gone on book tours and appear on Oprah. If Palin is serious about political life (and I don't think she is, for as a conservative I think she's electoral kryptonite to the GOP right now) she needs to learn to lead and not to just appear.
It may not have made any difference in 2008, but with Pawlenty, Romney, or even Tom Ridge, the GOP VP candidate should "first, do no harm". Instead, the candidate fails to do his homework.
For all his struggles in 1996, Bob Dole had the wisdom to nominate a solid running-mate in Jack Kemp. John McCain must scratch his head some days and ask "What was I thinking?"
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 18, 2009 14:00:21 GMT -5
There will be endless debate on this, but I actually think Sarah Palin was McCain's best choice given political needs at the time. I fully subscribe to the idea that he needed to change the battlefield, and he did for a few weeks. The problem is that the battlefield flipped back on account of Palin's lack of understanding of core issues and the collapse of the economy.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 18, 2009 14:02:50 GMT -5
Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton are alike in more than meets the eye--each has a palpable ambition for a job that they are not otherwise qualified for; though, to be fair, the US tends to elect chief executives with a lack of national and international political experience. To HRC's credit, she took the job at State to build her credentials, where she could have otherwise gone on book tours and appear on Oprah. If Palin is serious about political life (and I don't think she is, for as a conservative I think she's electoral kryptonite to the GOP right now) she needs to learn to lead and not to just appear. It may not have made any difference in 2008, but with Pawlenty, Romney, or even Tom Ridge, the GOP VP candidate should "first, do no harm". Instead, the candidate fails to do his homework. For all his struggles in 1996, Bob Dole had the wisdom to nominate a solid running-mate in Jack Kemp. John McCain must scratch his head some days and ask "What was I thinking?" Thankfully for Todd Palin and people watching the current media blitz, Sarah Palin and HRC have nothing in common when it comes to what meets the eye.
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Post by hoyawatcher on Nov 18, 2009 14:14:05 GMT -5
There will be endless debate on this, but I actually think Sarah Palin was McCain's best choice given political needs at the time. I fully subscribe to the idea that he needed to change the battlefield, and he did for a few weeks. The problem is that the battlefield flipped back on account of Palin's lack of understanding of core issues and the collapse of the economy. I would put forward that the battlefield flipped back not because of Palin who energized McCain's base - all she was supposed to do. The battlefield flipped back when McCain did the screwy suspending his campaign for the trip back to Washington and the bailout - plus and most importantly not tieing the financial problems at the time back to the Freddie and Fannie mess and the democratic congressmen largely (not entirely) responsible for it. I don't think many folks went to the polls saying I can't vote for McCain because I didn't like Palin's interview.
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Post by strummer8526 on Nov 18, 2009 14:37:10 GMT -5
Sarah Palin connects with people who work, pay their own bills, meet the mortgage and take their own kids to games. This thread has also made me think of another issue I have with this whole Palin-embodied movement, though not an issue that comes up exclusively w/ her. Why is it that "hard working" and "people who work" are phrases used to describe people who do what we would more commonly consider "labor" or "blue collar work"? You know, I've busted my ass in school for a long time now, and when I get out, I know for a fact that I'll be lucky to ever work as few as 40 hours a week in my life. The lawyers on this board work just as hard as anyone else, as do those of us working in the financial industry, in politics, in media, in academia, etc. These jobs require just as much, if not more, "work" than any other. Granted, it's a different kind of work. But why does "people who work, pay their own bills, meet the mortgage, and take their kids to games" (typically what we think of as "hard working America")—why is that pretty much the exclusive rhetorical territory of the guy who spends 40–60 hours a week hauling bricks, fixing toilets, moving furniture, working the assembly line, driving a truck, or manning the night shift (all very respectable and worthwhile jobs, no doubt)? Sure, I'll be in an office rather than in the factory, but I can promise you I'll be working every damn bit as hard as these people. So how about we stop dividing people by this artificial and completely inaccurate "hard working" and "not hard working," and instead figure out a more accurate way to describe the group of people we're talking about. Because I can assure you, the difference b/t a Palin supporter and me IS NOT that the Palin supporter does (or ever will) work harder than I will, nor pay more bills than I will, pay a mortgage more willingly than I will, or bring kids to games more than I will. If the line we really mean to draw is income, then let's say that. If it's education, let's say that. If it's the kind of work being done, let's say that. But enough with trying to make someone like me feel like I'm somehow not working quite as hard as Joe the Plumber and that his work ethic must allow him to see something that I just don't understand. No, I work pretty God damn hard myself. So why is it really that you think the Palin supporter and I don't see eye-to-eye?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Nov 18, 2009 15:22:32 GMT -5
Sarah Palin connects with people who work, pay their own bills, meet the mortgage and take their own kids to games. Sure, I'll be in an office rather than in the factory, but I can promise you I'll be working every damn bit as hard as these people. In between Hoyatalk posts, of course. ;D It's a point of semantics you raise, but it's a good one. I think "working class," has typically applied to those in more blue collar fields with probably a lower level (though not non-existent) level of formal academic (not trade) education. Calling them "hard-working" Americans is probably not the best way to phrase it, but it's the phrase we use under the umbrella of political correctness (sorry Chris Matthews, but it IS a problem in America). For whatever reason, we've decided it's not nice for politicians to use the term "blue collar." It's also not the provenance of either political party, I should add. I'd need a sophisticated calculator to add up the number of times "hard working Americans" has been used to promote health care reform.
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