Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 28, 2009 12:53:51 GMT -5
WaPo LinkGood, I say. He's a child rapist and should be punished, and Hollywood's whitewashing of this is just shameful. Separating the artist from the person goes both ways; if we accede that Polanski is a brilliant director (and he is), we still have to be repulsed by his crimes. Incidentally, the Post should be ashamed to publish Anne Applebaum's rape apologia without noting she's the wife of the Polish foreign minister, who's country (along with France) is backing Polanski.
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PhillyHoya
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Post by PhillyHoya on Sept 28, 2009 13:09:47 GMT -5
About effin time. I hate France and I HATE that Poland is backing him.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 28, 2009 13:16:12 GMT -5
WaPo LinkGood, I say. He's a child rapist and should be punished, and Hollywood's whitewashing of this is just shameful. Separating the artist from the person goes both ways; if we accede that Polanski is a brilliant director (and he is), we still have to be repulsed by his crimes. Incidentally, the Post should be ashamed to publish Anne Applebaum's rape apologia without noting she's the wife of the Polish foreign minister, who's country (along with France) is backing Polanski. I couldn't believe that column she wrote today. Repugnant in every way. One more thing bando and I can agree on.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 28, 2009 13:35:33 GMT -5
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 28, 2009 14:02:54 GMT -5
They can appeal all they want, the President doesn't have that kind of power over the LA courts, unless he's going to pardon him, which is highly unlikely. Maybe the Polish Foreign Minister should figure out how the American court system works before he mouths off.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 28, 2009 14:06:11 GMT -5
They can appeal all they want, the President doesn't have that kind of power over the LA courts, unless he's going to pardon him, which is highly unlikely. Maybe the Polish Foreign Minister should figure out how the American court system works before he mouths off. The President doesn't have pardon power over state criminal offenses.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 28, 2009 14:17:35 GMT -5
They can appeal all they want, the President doesn't have that kind of power over the LA courts, unless he's going to pardon him, which is highly unlikely. Maybe the Polish Foreign Minister should figure out how the American court system works before he mouths off. The President doesn't have pardon power over state criminal offenses. Is evading justice a federal offense? While I'd like to believe Applebaum's husband is a complete idiot, you'd have to think there's some reason he's appealing to Obama.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Sept 28, 2009 14:49:02 GMT -5
Anne Applebaum is one of my favorite WaPo columnists, so I'm really disappointed to see her take up this "cause."
What really bothers me is the hand-wringing over the "ordeal" Polanski has gone through over the past three decades ("He did commit a crime, but he has paid for the crime in many, many ways: In notoriety, in lawyers' fees, in professional stigma. He could not return to Los Angeles to receive his recent Oscar. He cannot visit Hollywood to direct or cast a film."). Nobody brought this ordeal on Roman Polanski -- he created it himself when he decided to flee the United States. According to this logic, criminals get to name their own punishment as long as it is severe enough in the eyes of the media. This is not how most Americans view justice.
If indeed there was judicial misconduct at Polanski's trial, as Applebaum and many others have claimed, why not return the director to the United States and let the justice system work the way it's supposed to?
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 28, 2009 15:19:42 GMT -5
If indeed there was judicial misconduct at Polanski's trial, as Applebaum and many others have claimed, why not return the director to the United States and let the justice system work the way it's supposed to? I really don't know a whole lot about the details of the original proceedings but I don't think there was an actual trial, just a plea bargain, and part of the "misconduct" was that the trial judge was not going to follow the sentencing recommendation, which he had every right to do.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 28, 2009 15:25:37 GMT -5
Yeah. Barack Obama's going to pardon (or lobby on behalf of) a Hollywood director who admitted to drugging, having intercourse with and sodomizing a 13-year old girl.
Yup. That's going to happen.
Good news for liberals though. Were this actually to take place, you should tune into Fox immediately, because I am pretty sure such news would cause Glenn Beck's head to literally explode right on camera. ;D
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Sept 28, 2009 15:41:38 GMT -5
What would have been the maximum sentence that Polanski would have served had he been sentenced? Anyone know or can guess? And does anyone have a guess on how long he would have actually served?
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 28, 2009 15:45:11 GMT -5
Her first question is kinda interesting - why did the Swiss nail him?
Since it's LA County courts and he's a celebrity, I'm sure he'll serve thirty seven minutes and be let out on good behavior if they ever even get him to the US.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Sept 28, 2009 15:49:41 GMT -5
If indeed there was judicial misconduct at Polanski's trial, as Applebaum and many others have claimed, why not return the director to the United States and let the justice system work the way it's supposed to? I really don't know a whole lot about the details of the original proceedings but I don't think there was an actual trial, just a plea bargain, and part of the "misconduct" was that the trial judge was not going to follow the sentencing recommendation, which he had every right to do. Not to turn this into the lawyer thread, but a guilty plea proceeding is a trial, albeit a very short one. I absolutely agree a judge doesn't have to follow the sentencing recommendations, but I thought Polanski had never been sentenced. Bottom line -- I should probably learn the facts before jumping into this discussion.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 28, 2009 15:56:43 GMT -5
Personally, I don't even think he's all that great of a director.
I always thought Chinatown was an overrated movie. And Rosemary's Baby was crazy scary, sure, but it was also more than a little camp and over the top.
I've seen a couple others, nowhere near everything, but my reaction to most of what I saw was "Meh. Not bad. Not great by any means."
Not that this has any bearing on whether he is a pervert and a criminal of course (Yes. Yes, he is.), just a little side note of my own.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 28, 2009 16:04:15 GMT -5
Her first question is kinda interesting - why did the Swiss nail him? I believe the LA DA knew he was going there, and made a request to the Justice Dept. to request that the Swiss arrest him. The French don't extradite people who have been convicted in absentia, the Swiss do.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 28, 2009 16:13:25 GMT -5
I really don't know a whole lot about the details of the original proceedings but I don't think there was an actual trial, just a plea bargain, and part of the "misconduct" was that the trial judge was not going to follow the sentencing recommendation, which he had every right to do. Not to turn this into the lawyer thread, but a guilty plea proceeding is a trial, albeit a very short one. I absolutely agree a judge doesn't have to follow the sentencing recommendations, but I thought Polanski had never been sentenced. Bottom line -- I should probably learn the facts before jumping into this discussion. I don't know what state you practice in, but a hearing where a person pleads guilty is not a trial in any of the states where I'm admitted. That's why defendants have to waive their right to a trial when pleading guilty...
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Sept 28, 2009 16:18:08 GMT -5
Her first question is kinda interesting - why did the Swiss nail him? I believe the LA DA knew he was going there, and made a request to the Justice Dept. to request that the Swiss arrest him. The French don't extradite people who have been convicted in absentia, the Swiss do. France's extradition trial with the US didn't cover the crime in question.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Sept 28, 2009 16:31:43 GMT -5
Not to turn this into the lawyer thread, but a guilty plea proceeding is a trial, albeit a very short one. I absolutely agree a judge doesn't have to follow the sentencing recommendations, but I thought Polanski had never been sentenced. Bottom line -- I should probably learn the facts before jumping into this discussion. I don't know what state you practice in, but a hearing where a person pleads guilty is not a trial in any of the states where I'm admitted. That's why defendants have to waive their right to a trial when pleading guilty... I practice in Texas. Here, a defendant waives his/her right to a jury trial, and the plea proceeding is a trial before the court. My guess is Utah's state constitution or statutes are different than ours. It was my understanding most states do things our way, but perhaps I'm mistaken.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 28, 2009 16:53:56 GMT -5
I don't know what state you practice in, but a hearing where a person pleads guilty is not a trial in any of the states where I'm admitted. That's why defendants have to waive their right to a trial when pleading guilty... I practice in Texas. Here, a defendant waives his/her right to a jury trial, and the plea proceeding is a trial before the court. My guess is Utah's state constitution or statutes are different than ours. It was my understanding most states do things our way, but perhaps I'm mistaken. Yeah, everywhere I've practiced there's no trial or substantive hearing. You enter your plea, the judge makes sure you know what rights you're waiving, and, most times, doesn't even require any statement from the Defendant. As you said, Texas must have a different procedure.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 28, 2009 16:54:58 GMT -5
I believe the LA DA knew he was going there, and made a request to the Justice Dept. to request that the Swiss arrest him. The French don't extradite people who have been convicted in absentia, the Swiss do. France's extradition trial with the US didn't cover the crime in question. I thought it was that the agreement between France and the US allows France to refuse to extradite its own citizens.
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