EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jun 26, 2009 18:43:56 GMT -5
Now Sanford is saying that he won't resign because David didn't resign when he slept with Bathsheba. It's one thing to make the argument that private affairs are private, it's another try to biblically justify your cling to power and act like a proud creep. That's not what Sanford said. What he said was that David made mistakes and reformed his life afterward so maybe he could do the same. He did not use it to try to justify what he did. Having said that, his best strategy from a personal standpoint would be to shut the hell up.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jun 26, 2009 18:50:24 GMT -5
That's not what Sanford said. What he said was that David made mistakes and reformed his life afterward so maybe he could do the same. He did not use it to try to justify what he did. Yes, in answer to the question "Will you resign?" He didn't use it to try to justify what he did, he used it to justify staying in the Governorship. Sanford is an absolute weasel, what sort of guy asks his wife for permission to cheat on her? www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jcQOOTqzeNFNAmoUJG6g4fDAFemQD992KQJ80
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jun 27, 2009 11:07:14 GMT -5
I'm fairly sure the hypocrisy angle is specifically tied to political hypocrisy -- many of those caught for cheating campaigned on family values or made their name cleaning up things like this, etc.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Jun 27, 2009 12:54:37 GMT -5
Getting into this discussion a little late. Yes, SirSaxa, I remember Wilbur Mills and Fanne Foxe and the escapade in the fountain. Brings back fond memories. Of course, before that were the English sex scandals, which made front page headlines, probably all over the world. I have been reading the historical books of the Old Testament recently, and David violated more than one commandment, more than one time. I guess they are using him as a role model. And I did not vote for Ensign. Ran against him in a 5 or 10K race once.
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Jun 28, 2009 8:26:08 GMT -5
Easyed and C2C,
Adultery is a crime in many states (altho rarely prosecuted). That is why in divorce proceedings, a philadering spouse will often invoke the 5th Amendent. Clinton could have done so legally, but obiously not politically. Hence, his perjurious conduct.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Jun 28, 2009 9:29:36 GMT -5
Thanks SS. Out of curiosity, which states have criminalized adultery, and what what must one ... er ... do to be in violation?
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jun 28, 2009 14:34:30 GMT -5
Thanks SS. Out of curiosity, which states have criminalized adultery, and what what must one ... er ... do to be in violation? Here's an okay summary: The United States inherited English common law, which made adultery, as well as fornication (sex between unmarried people) and sodomy (oral and anal sex), punishable crimes. In the mid and late 19th centuries, when states wrote their criminal codes, they incorporated these sex laws. Twenty-six states continue to have anti-adultery laws on the books. These laws vary considerably. Some define adultery as any intercourse outside marriage. According to others, it occurs when a married person lives with someone other than his or her spouse. In West Virginia and North Carolina, simply "to lewdly and lasciviously associate" with anyone other than one's spouse is to be adulterous.
Is a single person in an adulterous relationship guilty of adultery? All but seven states punish both people involved. Colorado, Georgia, Nebraska, North Dakota, and Utah only punish the married person. In the District of Columbia and in Michigan, when a married man sleeps with an unmarried woman, only the man is guilty, but when a married woman sleeps with an unmarried man, they're both guilty. Most laws make no exceptions for couples who are separated or in the process of obtaining a divorce. Punishments also vary. Adultery is a felony in Massachusetts, Michigan, Oklahoma, and Idaho, and a misdemeanor everywhere else.
In practice, adultery laws matter little: Only one case--against an Alabama man--has been prosecuted in the last five years. Most states have not enforced their adultery laws since World War II.
Before the 1970s, when every state passed a "no fault divorce" law, adultery was usually the only reason courts would grant divorces. (Under no-fault divorce, no specific reason is required.) Charges of adultery also can be used to get a more favorable divorce settlement.www.slate.com/id/1063/
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jun 28, 2009 17:18:57 GMT -5
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jun 28, 2009 22:28:27 GMT -5
The State's weekend coverage reveals the extent of Governor Sanford's infidelity and delusion. After his wife learned of the affair, the Governor nonetheless asked her for permission to visit Argentina. (http://www.thestate.com/sanford/story/843243.html)
Sanford also visited Argentina last week after an express warning from his wife. (http://www.thestate.com/sanford/story/844260.html)
One of the unanswered questions in this sad affair is as follows, from The State:
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TC
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Post by TC on Jun 30, 2009 21:53:42 GMT -5
More Sanford fun, apparently he gave a 3 hour AP interview and continues to shoot himself in both feet : www.thestate.com/statewire/story/847605.html- He wants to get back with Jenny Sanford but the Argentinian woman is his "soulmate" - I read this to mean he realizes he's not going to get back with his wife and doesn't want to and wants to keep seeing the Argentinian woman - He's done other stuff outside his marriage which he terms "Have I done stupid?", who knows what that means
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jun 30, 2009 23:29:03 GMT -5
Dude just needs to stop talking to the media, cut his losses and go incognito on the Appalachian Trail for a month or so. Oh wait...
Seriously, who is advising Sanford to talk to the media at this point? Every time he opens his mouth, it's bad for both his career and his marriage. If, as TC suggests, he's not serious about saving either of those institutions, move to Argentina already and drop out of our news cycle.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 1, 2009 16:18:20 GMT -5
Dude just needs to stop talking to the media, cut his losses and go incognito on the Appalachian Trail for a month or so. Oh wait... Seriously, who is advising Sanford to talk to the media at this point? Every time he opens his mouth, it's bad for both his career and his marriage. If, as TC suggests, he's not serious about saving either of those institutions, move to Argentina already and drop out of our news cycle. Perhaps he is trying to add value to a potential book deal.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jul 2, 2009 16:18:33 GMT -5
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jul 2, 2009 18:36:23 GMT -5
Jenny Sanford continues to be an amazing woman. Not too many would be able to offer forgiveness in this situation. My only wish is that she do this in private in the future.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jul 3, 2009 9:32:36 GMT -5
Thanks SS. Out of curiosity, which states have criminalized adultery, and what what must one ... er ... do to be in violation? Here's an okay summary: The United States inherited English common law, which made adultery, as well as fornication (sex between unmarried people) and sodomy (oral and anal sex), punishable crimes. In the mid and late 19th centuries, when states wrote their criminal codes, they incorporated these sex laws. Twenty-six states continue to have anti-adultery laws on the books. These laws vary considerably. Some define adultery as any intercourse outside marriage. According to others, it occurs when a married person lives with someone other than his or her spouse. In West Virginia and North Carolina, simply "to lewdly and lasciviously associate" with anyone other than one's spouse is to be adulterous.
Is a single person in an adulterous relationship guilty of adultery? All but seven states punish both people involved. Colorado, Georgia, Nebraska, North Dakota, and Utah only punish the married person. In the District of Columbia and in Michigan, when a married man sleeps with an unmarried woman, only the man is guilty, but when a married woman sleeps with an unmarried man, they're both guilty. Most laws make no exceptions for couples who are separated or in the process of obtaining a divorce. Punishments also vary. Adultery is a felony in Massachusetts, Michigan, Oklahoma, and Idaho, and a misdemeanor everywhere else.
In practice, adultery laws matter little: Only one case--against an Alabama man--has been prosecuted in the last five years. Most states have not enforced their adultery laws since World War II.
Before the 1970s, when every state passed a "no fault divorce" law, adultery was usually the only reason courts would grant divorces. (Under no-fault divorce, no specific reason is required.) Charges of adultery also can be used to get a more favorable divorce settlement.www.slate.com/id/1063/Austin - just wanted a clarification. Wouldn't a criminalization of "lewd" conduct be void for vagueness? Wouldn't the DC and Michigan classifications violate equal protection? Didn't the Supreme court rule that there was a right to private consensual sodomy with regard to homosexual couples (and arguably with regard to heterosexuals)?
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jul 3, 2009 9:34:03 GMT -5
Jenny Sanford continues to be an amazing woman. Not too many would be able to offer forgiveness in this situation. My only wish is that she do this in private in the future. Agree 100%. She has handled herself much better than many of us would handle ourselves in this situation.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Jul 3, 2009 9:57:54 GMT -5
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Jul 3, 2009 11:41:44 GMT -5
Jenny Sanford continues to be an amazing woman. Not too many would be able to offer forgiveness in this situation. My only wish is that she do this in private in the future. Agree 100%. She has handled herself much better than many of us would handle ourselves in this situation. True, forgiveness is one of the pillars of Christianity. It is very hard for us mere mortals to do, but that is what we are called to do. Yes, Ed, it would be nice if Jenny kept her forgiveness in private. We are not called to glorify our actions.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jul 3, 2009 13:48:30 GMT -5
You know why it's not private? Because it's not sincere and because she's not forgiving him. It's over - no sane man calls some other woman his soulmate if he wants to reconcile with his wife, and no wife who wants her husband back would be putting out statements to try to put the hammer on her husband's political career. They are playing a public I-can-out-Christian/BibleQuote your public statement in the press - it's sort of a "Bless Your Heart"-fest of Southern passive-aggressive gentility. Her statement is her attempt to stick it to him for the "soulmate" comment the day before.
All this said, I'm amazed he got elected to dog-catcher. She's obviously the brains of the duo.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jul 4, 2009 10:37:45 GMT -5
SPH,
Re: your question regarding void for vagueness and equal protection issues with DC and MICH adultery criminal statutes, you are probably correct. However, since these "crimes" are not prosecuted, it is not likely that any case will ever be presented to assert these issues on appeal leading to the resolution of any Constitutional issues presented. Remember, Virginia's statute banning interracial marriage was not struck down by the Supremes until 1967 because a case did not present itself to the Supremes to address the issue until Loving v. Virginia and that married couple's willingness to take that issue all the way to the Supreme Court.
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