The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Jun 15, 2009 14:29:46 GMT -5
The Confederations' Cup started today. It's mostly a warmup/test for South Africa 2010.
Right now the US is actually beating Italy at halftime, despite being down a man after a stupid red card. Donovan scored on a PK. Italy is clearly the better team, but the US is playing respectably. Certainly not the same team that got embarrassed by Costa Rica.
As far as South Africa is concerned, the atmosphere at the stadium sounds great. Lots of noise, with a constant buzzing sound from the crowd. It sounds like a soccer stadium should.
On the down side, the TV feed his terrible. The cameras missed both cards during the time I was watching, and the camera work has generally been awful. Hopefully they get that fixed before 2010.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Jun 15, 2009 14:47:21 GMT -5
An American-born kid just scored. Unfortunately, he was playing for Italy. One hell of a shot from Rossi.
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Post by washingtonhoya on Jun 15, 2009 15:23:49 GMT -5
Suffice it to say of all the Editedy fake Italians from New Jersey, Rossi is the worst.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Jun 15, 2009 15:39:09 GMT -5
I thought that game was on tonight. Is it on tape delay or did I misread the advertisement?
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Post by washingtonhoya on Jun 15, 2009 15:39:18 GMT -5
For anyone who watched the Egypt-Brazil game this morning, the handball in the 90th minute was obvious and in every way the correct decision, but that doesn't mean Egypt isn't going to protest it anyway: Link[/url]
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 15, 2009 15:39:43 GMT -5
Friggen Rossi that traitor. I know hate him at least as much as Rafa Marquez.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jun 15, 2009 18:08:09 GMT -5
Friggen Rossi that traitor. I know hate him at least as much as Rafa Marquez. And everyone gets all huffy when Georgetown loses out on a Shan Foster or Latavious Williams. Of course, there's about as much of a chance that Rossi would have ever played for the US as there is that Kobe would've suited up for Benneton Treviso out of H.S. b/c he lived in Italy for a while. That being said, kid is straight nasty. THAT being said, the US habit of turning the ball over in the midfield at inopportune times and not closing out oncoming players is straight annoying. Whether you're Giuseppe Rossi or Carlos Costly (that'd be the dude from Honduras who scored on the exact same shot in the last WC qualifier), it's easier to score a wundergoal if you've got all that time. Unfortunately, the whole thing was a ticking time bomb after the red card. South American refs, how bout it. The Uruguyan dude from the 2006 US-Italy game is working in this tournament, by the way. You know what, it's a harsh call but you can't really complain. The foul's late, just reckless enough, and basically in the dead center of the field with the referee having a perfect unobstructed view. You're playing with fire basically at that point. The whole thing--they gotta stop doing that, getting overly antsy and reckless against the quality opponents and in the tough environments. It's reckless challenges and shaky clears and passing that's killing 'em. It happened in 2006, it happened today and it's kinda happening too much in CONCACAF, with the backline looking mighty shaky at times. The odd thing is the red card actually settled them down, they bucked up at the back and got some great positive play out of the midfield from Bradley and Donovan. But they were never gonna hold it for 60 minutes against a quality team. Few half chances but not nearly enough a man down. Encouraging at least to see them make a solid effort at 50/50 balls and take the midfield for about 45 minutes. But man down or not, the defensive effort in the second half wasn't nearly what it needed to be, and they've got to shore that up sooner rather than later, cause they ain't winning many 4-3 games any time soon.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Jun 15, 2009 21:14:24 GMT -5
Donovan created two excellent scoring opportunities inside the box just to his left during the first half. Jozy Altidore blew one as well as the coaches son, Michael Bradley.
I thought they played very, very well for being a man down from the 30th minute or so. At the half I turned to my friends and tried to take bets on whether Italy would score 2 or 3 goals in the 2nd half.
I'd like to see less of Jay Demerit and Feilhaber against Brazil on Thursday.
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whatmaroon
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Post by whatmaroon on Jun 15, 2009 21:20:08 GMT -5
Phfft, Clark got held up by the previous Italian player, which is why he was as late as he was on the foul. I was annoyed by the call on Mastro in the 2006 game, but that was at least from behind, with studs up, and in accordance with a clearly-enunciated rule that had been announced and applied in previous games. Harsh, but fair. I can't say that about today.
Aside from the card, the 'what might have been's for me were Bradley's and Altidore's chances when it was still 11v11, especially Jozy's. He really should have shot that instead of trying to cross it.
Hopefully I'll be able to take Thursday morning off-complete internet/news blackout from 1:30 PM on to avoid being spoiled was bad enough I don't want to think about going through a full day's worth.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jun 15, 2009 22:25:41 GMT -5
Why was this stadium filled with bees, hornets and RC helicopters?
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jun 15, 2009 22:30:41 GMT -5
Aside from the card, the 'what might have been's for me were Bradley's and Altidore's chances when it was still 11v11, especially Jozy's. He really should have shot that instead of trying to cross it. That was a killer especially in light of the weirdly unsteady game Buffon ended up having, where he seemed to parry balls for no reason. Plus, that was essentially the exact spot from which Damarcus Beasley scored his almost-goal against Italy in 2006, which Buffon made a mess off as well. This is kind of a problem too, and another reason you can't afford to give up cheap goals. You take the last four games for the US against legit WC caliber competition (the qualifiers against Mexico, Costa Rica, and Honduras and today's game)...six goals isn't too bad, but they came from three PKs, two corner kicks, and an extremely soft goal at the end of the Mexico game. I really don't know what the answer is, and I'm not sure there IS a ready answer, but the US really lacks a consistent scoring punch in the run of play against high level competition. You don't want to harp on it, but jeez almighty when was the last time any American player finished like Rossi did today.
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whatmaroon
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Post by whatmaroon on Jun 15, 2009 23:38:12 GMT -5
I really don't know what the answer is, and I'm not sure there IS a ready answer, but the US really lacks a consistent scoring punch in the run of play against high level competition. You don't want to harp on it, but jeez almighty when was the last time any American player finished like Rossi did today. The best strikes I remember offhand are Kljestan's free kick against Sweden this year and of course Feilhaber in the Gold Cup. Of course, Kljestan's goal was a free kick and Feilhaber's was off a corner. In terms of the run of play, though, it's been a long time. How to solve that problem? A good forward or three would be nice. Altidore will hopefully get there one day, but isn't ready for it yet.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jun 16, 2009 13:29:12 GMT -5
I really don't know what the answer is, and I'm not sure there IS a ready answer, but the US really lacks a consistent scoring punch in the run of play against high level competition. You don't want to harp on it, but jeez almighty when was the last time any American player finished like Rossi did today. The best strikes I remember offhand are Kljestan's free kick against Sweden this year and of course Feilhaber in the Gold Cup. Of course, Kljestan's goal was a free kick and Feilhaber's was off a corner. In terms of the run of play, though, it's been a long time. How to solve that problem? A good forward or three would be nice. Altidore will hopefully get there one day, but isn't ready for it yet. I am not nearly as knowlegable on this sport as the rest of you (though I still love watching it whenever I can), but I have to say, if Altidore isn't ready -- and I'll concede that -- he sure as hell doesn't look that far away from being ready. Mistakes in judgment? OK, sure. But it sure looks to me like his skill set is far ahead of most that I've seen in a US uniform. I'll be happy to be educated by anyone with a more in-depth knowledge of the game than I have though.
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Post by washingtonhoya on Jun 16, 2009 14:29:21 GMT -5
The best strikes I remember offhand are Kljestan's free kick against Sweden this year and of course Feilhaber in the Gold Cup. Of course, Kljestan's goal was a free kick and Feilhaber's was off a corner. In terms of the run of play, though, it's been a long time. How to solve that problem? A good forward or three would be nice. Altidore will hopefully get there one day, but isn't ready for it yet. I am not nearly as knowlegable on this sport as the rest of you (though I still love watching it whenever I can), but I have to say, if Altidore isn't ready -- and I'll concede that -- he sure as hell doesn't look that far away from being ready. Mistakes in judgment? OK, sure. But it sure looks to me like his skill set is far ahead of most that I've seen in a US uniform. I'll be happy to be educated by anyone with a more in-depth knowledge of the game than I have though. He's close. Part of the "problem" (if there is one with Jozy) is his club situation. Everyone was happy when he was bought by Villareal for $10 million (a record transfer fee for an American player) and even though he was expected to go out on loan, getting some first-team time in a quality European league was still assumed to do wonders for his development. Plus, you know, he wouldn't be infected by the traitor Rossi at Villareal [/reactionary American soccer fan]. However, since being sent on loan to Xerez in the Spanish second division, he's yet to see the field. Back in April he had a toe injury that required surgery and the recent World Cup Qualifiers were his first games back for either club or country, but as much as training with a European team is going to help his development, it's going to be mitigated if he's not getting any games with them. It's a bit puzzling, considering even Villareal was getting him into games as a substitute in La Liga, and he even scored the first-ever goal by an American in the league. I think his loan his up and he should be back at Villareal or out on loan at a different club in the fall, hopefully one that will keep him match fit and allow him to develop on the field rather than just at the training ground. That said, he's still a phenomenally-talented player for his age and will hopefully be a significant contributor to the national team in the 2010, 2014, and 2018 World Cups. He has the potential to have the impact that Freddy Adu was always supposed to have, speaking of young Americans abroad who can't seem to get a game with their club.
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whatmaroon
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Post by whatmaroon on Jun 16, 2009 14:30:32 GMT -5
I am not nearly as knowlegable on this sport as the rest of you (though I still love watching it whenever I can), but I have to say, if Altidore isn't ready -- and I'll concede that -- he sure as hell doesn't look that far away from being ready. Mistakes in judgment? OK, sure. But it sure looks to me like his skill set is far ahead of most that I've seen in a US uniform. I'll be happy to be educated by anyone with a more in-depth knowledge of the game than I have though. I don't really know that much-I've watched probably 70% of USMNT games the last 8-9 years, as much of the last two World Cups as I could, and a little of Euro 08, but never watch any club soccer, whether MLS or a Euro league. A couple things on Jozy I've noticed (and read about from people who are better at this than I): - Poor first touch. This is a widespread flaw among US players, and Altidore isn't immune. He looked better here yesterday than he did a week ago Saturday against Honduras, when he gave away possession probably half a dozen times.
- Finishing touch. I have a hard time talking about this intelligently, because it for me is like Potter Stewart's "I know it when I see it," but there are two things here. First, a striker has to be looking for and seeing chances to score. His chance in the 30th minute or whatever is an example of this-he needs to be looking to put it in the net. Second, a good striker has to have a good understanding of how to score-a player can succeed on the youth level (as Jozy did) by being a little good or better than average at this, but the good ones at the adult level all have this. Jozy looks like he could have it, but we've been teased before.
- Playing with the team. This one's complicated, but the U.S. has, as long as I've been watching them, played better with a target forward. For a long time, this was Brian McBride, who was not a great player but excelled in this role. He's retired for the international game, but Brian Ching has played that role a lot since (and Conor Casey is in SA because he can play that role with Ching out). Jozy played pretty much that role against ITA, and did much better than I thought he would, but it's not his best role even though he has good size and isn't too bad at using it. He's not, though, the same size + speed combo Eddie Johnson was when he was the U.S. Future Star Striker of the Year. Using him effectively, then, isn't just a matter of putting Tab A into Slot B, especially since the U.S. can't control the midfield.
People who actually know something about the game, feel free to correct me.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jun 16, 2009 15:09:08 GMT -5
Interesting question on Altidore. I watched yesterday having not watched a US game in at least 5 years. So, my eyes are relatively fresh on the issue but not trained well enough to compete with other analysis in the thread.
It seems to me that you need to throw Altidore out there for the sake of POWER. To me, the US team has always lacked a steamroller type of forward who can clear space and muscle through. Altidore has that capability and build, and, when he gets knocked down in the box, it will raise eyebrows as it did yesterday.
The US always has a scrapper or two - McBride comes to mind from older teams. Then, those teams had nothing up front to complement that. You compare McBride to Donovan, and Donovan looks like he plays like Dave Matthews in these regards.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jun 16, 2009 18:10:07 GMT -5
THAT being said, the US habit of turning the ball over in the midfield at inopportune times and not closing out oncoming players is straight annoying. Whether you're Giuseppe Rossi or Carlos Costly (that'd be the dude from Honduras who scored on the exact same shot in the last WC qualifier), it's easier to score a wundergoal if you've got all that time. After Honduras scored that goal, I decided that I would begin developing a system that would allow me to travel into my television screen and kill Clint Dempsey. Still working on that. I also did not know the name of the player who scored at the time, and thought ESPN's textual display "HON GOAL 4' COSTLY" was editorializing. Re: Boz's comment above, I watched some of the replay last night on mute. If anyone could explain the source of the noise, I am also curious.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 17, 2009 9:19:47 GMT -5
I also was puzzled that xerez couldnt find time for jozy, especially since villareal has let it be known that he isnt for sale. Can they force xerez to play him or is that totally their call? I imagine you wouldnt loan someone without assurances he will get PT. Also- anyone know how johnson is doing in uk? He really dropped off the usmnt radar fast but for good reason.
I have to dis-agree with the Stig, there is nothing cool about that constant "buzzing" sound which is in fact the irritating blowing of cheap horns which stands in for genuine enthusiasm at this year's Confed Cup. It's something you hear too often at US games where 10k fans are trying to sound like 40k fans. I could do without it. There are obviously a lot of neutral fans at these games who are doing their best to put on a good show- I don't expect it to be a problem at the WC.
I also disagree with FLHoya about the Kobe analogy. Kobe lived for a few years in Italy and is in everyway an American- citizenship, birth, upbringing high school, etc. Rossi was also an American by birth, upbringing, etc. He could still have played in the best European leagues without actually abandoning the National team, so the Benneton analogy fails on couple of levels. If I'm not mistaken, it actually was possible Rossi would play for the US- I believe he played on some of our youth teams, but word is that Arenas didn't court him enough out of pride or something and so we lost him. Maybe that's true and maybe it isn't, but don't expect me to be happy when a kid who is born and raised in NJ ditches the national team for a much more glamourous one. You are allowed to dislike him now, I know I will.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jun 17, 2009 10:31:02 GMT -5
I think it's more that Rossi wanted to play for Italy over the US ( who wouldn't) and Arena didn't want to beg him to change his mind. I don't blame him. I'd do the same thing. It's like who would you rather play for the lakers or the kings even if you were born in sacramento but your parents are laker fans. You can't blame a kid for wanting to play on the better team when he has a connection to both.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 17, 2009 11:04:06 GMT -5
I think it's more that Rossi wanted to play for Italy over the US ( who wouldn't) and Arena didn't want to beg him to change his mind. I don't blame him. I'd do the same thing. It's like who would you rather play for the lakers or the kings even if you were born in sacramento but your parents are laker fans. You can't blame a kid for wanting to lay on the better team when he has a connection to both. Who wouldnt rather play for italy over the US? I wouldnt for one. How about any American soccer player with any pride for two? Yeah i disagree with this approach on so many levels. You dont shop for countries, you dance with the one that brought ya. Rossi was in every way an American kid. Please dont tell me he really wasnt because his parents were immigrants without first thinking through the implications of such nonsense. National teams are not club teams and any analogy between the two is fatally flawed from the word go.
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