whatmaroon
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Post by whatmaroon on Jun 20, 2009 15:21:05 GMT -5
It's the Gold Cup in a year when winning the Gold Cup doesn't really matter and the US has tournament against actual competition. The better and older players play the Confed, the younger and/or worse play the Gold Cup.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jun 20, 2009 15:32:52 GMT -5
I actually think it's a good roster for the purpose of the Gold Cup. Dropping Donovan, Bradley, and the artists formerly known as Beasley and Dempsey will most likely create opportunities for guys like Torres and Adu to get some run, not to mention possibly (hopefully?) some younger guys like Stuart Holden and Robbie Rogers. Couple dudes coming back from injuries too in Mastroeni (so keep those red cards handy) and Cherundolo. It won't hurt any to give Brad Guzan some games either.
One of the US soccer interwebs favorite rooting boys Kenny Cooper is also on the roster. Do we buy all of our forwards from a one-size-fits-all dealer?
Competition shouldn't be too fierce for most of the tournament--though the US-Honduras group stage game on July 8 at RFK (which I'll be attending) should be an interesting test and interesting atmosphere. Although given how the US and Mexico have both been out of form lately, who knows what can happen in a single elimination game.
Egypt tomorrow--I say something like 2-1 Egypt.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Jun 20, 2009 16:08:08 GMT -5
It's the Gold Cup in a year when winning the Gold Cup doesn't really matter and the US has tournament against actual competition. The better and older players play the Confed, the younger and/or worse play the Gold Cup. I understand that. I'm just not liking some of the younger and/or worse players that made the initial list. Do we really need to see more of Mastroeni? I'd like to see have seen Quaranta, Pontius, Conrad, and Whitbread on the list. It also sucks that they still list Bob Bradley as coach. They need to get the roster down to 23 at some point.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 21, 2009 15:01:03 GMT -5
Bradley has quickly become our best finisher and ball striker, fitting for a player that had i believe the second highest goal total in a signifigant eurpean league last year. Dont think well hear about nepotism again. But where is torres?
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 21, 2009 15:02:05 GMT -5
Great fing effort by the us!
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jun 21, 2009 15:23:52 GMT -5
well that was unexpected.
So we get to play another game, not that we deserved to advance based on our play, but hey I'll take it.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Jun 21, 2009 15:39:48 GMT -5
That Italy-Brazil game was hilarious, there's no doubt in my mind that we could beat the Azzurri 11 to 11.
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Post by washingtonhoya on Jun 21, 2009 15:42:46 GMT -5
well that was unexpected. So we get to play another game, not that we deserved to advance based on our play, but hey I'll take it. I'm not entirely sure it's wholly undeserved, now that I think about it. With the exception of Brazil, every team in the group had one truly horrid game, one unlucky loss, and a solid win. I haven't obviously seen the ITA-BRA game since I was watching US-Egypt, but to go down 3 in the first half I assume Italy performed as putridly as was mentioned by Rece Davis. Italy's unlucky loss was 1-0 to Egypt, and they were deserved winners against the US. Egypt put on a clunker when all they had to do was not lose too bad today, looked solid in their win over Italy*, and was thisclose to holding on for a tie against Brazil. Final scoreline be damned, the US got unlucky against Italy, as that result very easily could have only been 2-1 if not for sloppy marking on the final goal**, and was only truly terrible against Brazil. If finishing is a little better***, the US could have added another goal today. *The Egyptian performance against Italy was what made me initially predict a 2-0 loss for the US today. Fortunately the team that beat Italy both (a) didn't show up and (b) collectively decided they'd had enough of standing upright and went off injured, with even the keeper looking like he was another knock to the head away from having to hand his gloves over to a defender. **In retrospect the second Rossi goal, as disheartening/enraging as it was, is an excellent argument for why goal differential can make group play just as exciting as the knockout rounds in a tournament. Also, maybe the US plays with a little better composure in the final 20 minutes of that game and we don't need a 6-goal swing in goal differential today, you think? ***Of course, the obvious potential goal being the dubious no-call on the inadvertent handball on the line. I'll defer to a USSF-certified ref on that one, if there are any around (FL??) but the way I see it, the ball is likely to go in after the deflection of his thigh and inadvertent or not, his arm prevented a clear goal. No card, but a penalty would seem fitting. Also, given that we at least managed to win this game and advance...I officially retire my minor burning seven-year resentment for you, Torsten Frings[/url].
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jun 21, 2009 16:13:20 GMT -5
I'd say seeing our only goal before today was off a PK it's hard to say we were deserving. I don't consider our loss to Italy lucky. I see us having 2 stinkers and then getting kind of lucky to catch egypt at a bad time.(Their best offensive player was out) Egypt looked the more deserving team over the course of the tournament. They were the only ones to challenge Brazil.
I agree that the handball on the line should've resulted in a PK.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jun 21, 2009 16:56:32 GMT -5
Remember the 2006 World Cup? Right, you wanted to forget that one. Understandable. But there were those ESPN commercials with (why not?) the U2 song and the slogan "One Game Changes Everything". About three hours ago, everyone and their mother on the Interwebs was destroying Bob Bradley for being about as bland and conservative as your mother and for his inexplicable marriage to a certain few players against seemingly better judgment. And there was little to suggest anything was going to change in this game. Despite the gnashing of the teeth on the Intertubes, no Adu or Torres in the starting XI, Brad Guzan in net, and Charlie Davies up top really the only new wrinkle thrown in. If we're going down, we're going down...unexcitedly!!! I know I was unimpressed. One Game Changes Everything though. Actually, the boost was really coming from the Italy-Brazil match. The ESPN commentators pregame rightly joked (bwahahahaha who writes Rece Davis's material ) about how unlikely the scenarios were for the US to advance--and everyone including myself watching certainly must have been treating the game as a chance to earn a little self-respect and for the team to show us anything (it's like...what else...a recent non-threatening pop song says: so give me something to believe....). Not a realistic shot at advancing. But as soon as Brazil poured in three goals in eight minutes, all of a sudden there was a road map. With 45 minutes to go, the US needed to score twice and have things stay the same in the other game. Strangely, didn't you feel more confident at that point the US would hold up its end of the bargain vice Brazil/Italy? To be fair, in true USMNT fashion they made a mess of two chances--Donovan's ill fated layoff to nowhere with a clean run at goal, and Davies' rip shot that eschewed Altidore storming into the box unmarked (although JP and Harkes made that play seem much easier than it would have been...would have taken a long time for Altidore to get there). Even Donovan could have done better when he weaved through all that traffic but was denied by the onrushing keeper. But they got the first one on a pure effort goal from Davies--one of Bradley's changes. And getting the first one was absolutely crucial for confidence. Little lucky too, but it never happens without a great workrate from Altidore and a quality teasing ball into the six. What can you say after that, they fought pretty damn hard. Donovan has really excelled during the tournament at making things happen by attacking a defense from the midfield, and his work on the second goal was great stuff...nice simple finish from Bradley, nothing flashy just put the ball where it needed to be. And then the shocker--when Altidore went off for Feilhaber, which I found a funny move when you need another goal and Altidore had been a tireless, dangerous worker up front, and Bradley shifted The Artist Formerly Known as Clint Dempsey into the forward slot. Two minutes later, TAFKACD has a game winning header and the FIFA Man of the Match honor despite still playing for long enough with the fork in his back that John Harkes was doing his passive-aggressive ESPN-allowable best to destroy him on the air for being a complete lunkhead. Weird times. Egypt looked beaten up, tired and unimpressive. Aside from the header over the top late they seldom threatened Other Brad. Odd because it really was their second place for the taking today. You never know I guess. So what does this all do for the near future of the USMNT? I have no idea. On one hand, it's the best performance they've turned in for quite some time, and heck if you'll see much come soon of the Fire Bob Bradley movement at this point. Are they going to beat Spain? I reeeeeeeeeeally doubt it. It's house money though. If nothing else, they get yet another test against a high-caliber team in a legit setting to see where they stand. ( EDIT: As thebin rightly said below, we actually get two more games b/c there's a third place playoff even if we lose to Spain. And yes, even a game against South Africa would be a big stage game b/c it's a home team, and if you get South Africa in 2010 you'll get more than you bargained for b/c of the crowd factor...just like when the US played South Korea in 2002.) Results haven't been good lately in those cases--see the previous two games and the England-Spain-Argentina stretch last summer (and for that matter, Copa America in 2007). But one game sure changed a lot of minds for now I reckon. Weird. ***Of course, the obvious potential goal being the dubious no-call on the inadvertent handball on the line. I'll defer to a USSF-certified ref on that one, if there are any around (FL??) but the way I see it, the ball is likely to go in after the deflection of his thigh and inadvertent or not, his arm prevented a clear goal. No card, but a penalty would seem fitting. Also, given that we at least managed to win this game and advance...I officially retire my minor burning seven-year resentment for you, Torsten Frings[/url].[/quote] Haven't been certified/worked a game in nine years. My two cents though: The most relevant point here IMO, is if you watch when the players confront referee Michael Hester after the play, if I recall he indicates something to the effect of he didn't see the alleged handball. Who could blame him, Altidore tees it up pretty decent and it's a quick play to see at full speed. That being said, looking at the replay, don't think it's a penalty. In the Laws of the Game, within the section that discusses interpretations of the Handling the ball foul, it notes that the referee must take into consideration the movement of the hand towards the ball, not the other way around. What's more, the position of the hand doesn't necessarily indicate infringement. What I see on the replay is the defender on the line with his arm pinned to his side. It's a hard shot from maybe 12 yards with little reaction time, and it nails the defender in the thigh. Importantly though, the defender didn't seem to move his arm in any way, which despite the deflection off his arm IS a mitigating factor in this case IMO. In the Torsten Frings case in 2002, he moves his left arm away from his body and backward before the ball comes at him. He didn't necessarily swipe at the ball either, but the movement of the hand towards the ball IMO would have constituted a penalty. (P.S. To the Italian-American community in New Jersey: Nope, sorry. Bandwagon's already full. See ya in October if the Yankees make it. ;D )
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 21, 2009 16:58:51 GMT -5
Who cares if we were "deserving." Bottom line...two more games against quality teams at WC 2010 venues, including a likely consolation game versus home team South Africa after playing the best team in the world. You cannot buy that kind of experience. In that way, we need to ensure that we are playing as close to the projected 2010 starting lineup as possible. That means forget about Beasley and Casey for sure and get Howard back in there at least against Spain.
It's really absurd that Bradley hasn't found any minutes for Torres or Adu yet though.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jun 21, 2009 19:48:21 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong I'm psyched we get two more matches. I'm just really surprised we managed to squeak through after those first two games.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jun 21, 2009 20:10:45 GMT -5
Who cares if we were "deserving." Bottom line...two more games against quality teams at WC 2010 venues, including a likely consolation game versus home team South Africa after playing the best team in the world. You cannot buy that kind of experience. In that way, we need to ensure that we are playing as close to the projected 2010 starting lineup as possible. That means forget about Beasley and Casey for sure and get Howard back in there at least against Spain. It's really absurd that Bradley hasn't found any minutes for Torres or Adu yet though. Agreed. And FYI, I'm sick of Floppini and Divero getting red cards on us straight away in big matches. So I'm lovin' how this ended for the Italians.
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whatmaroon
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Post by whatmaroon on Jun 21, 2009 20:53:03 GMT -5
Heck* yeah! Best win since, oh, at least the Gold Cup Final in 2007. I was expecting/hoping for Torres or Adu in the starting lineup, or in for Clint in the halftime to 60th minute range, but after the goal to make it 3-nil there's no way either of those two was coming on barring a negative score change. It's also tough to complain too much about a lineup that scored 3 goals in the run of play against an actual opponent for the first time in fooorever (Barbados and Grenada aren't actual opponents).
*-Preemptive self-editing.
Screw you, Gio Rossi! And Torsten [Edited] Frings' middle name is permanent and irrevocable, much like Dave [Edited] Smith's. /bitter Astros fan
Oh, and a million thank you's to Brazil for the help. We're glad for the gesture of appreciation for us rolling over for you.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Jun 22, 2009 10:48:45 GMT -5
wonderful job US....now on to get smashed by the Spanish Armada
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Jun 22, 2009 22:53:10 GMT -5
wonderful job US....now on to get smashed by the Spanish Armada with the way the first two games went, playing south africa for a chance at 3rd wouldnt be the worst way to finish the tournament i remember being the only one in my group that watched the us - italy game and felt that the us really played them fairly even...i wasnt impressed with italy at all...if you remember the us had two great chances in the first half...then they went down a man and the rest is history italy needs to think about who they are taking back to south africa next time they show up...they need to get a little younger
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Jun 22, 2009 23:08:27 GMT -5
im glad to see quaranta added to the gold cup roster...
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Jun 23, 2009 12:00:08 GMT -5
The fact that in a 3 game round robin, we lost 3-1 and 3-0 the first two games and made the semi-finals of a tournament is just absurd. That being said, if we can win any medal then you have to consider it a success.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 23, 2009 12:52:44 GMT -5
The fact that in a 3 game round robin, we lost 3-1 and 3-0 the first two games and made the semi-finals of a tournament is just absurd. That being said, if we can win any medal then you have to consider it a success. It's not absurd if you understand there were only 4 teams in our division and there was a three way tie for 2nd place.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Jun 23, 2009 13:04:46 GMT -5
The fact that in a 3 game round robin, we lost 3-1 and 3-0 the first two games and made the semi-finals of a tournament is just absurd. That being said, if we can win any medal then you have to consider it a success. what is so hard to understand? there were 4 teams in the group. every team played each other once. one team - brazil - went undefeated. that means that the other 3 teams all have one loss. then the other 3 teams went 1-1 against each other. italy beat the us, egypt beat italy, us beat egypt. so that puts all of the teams at 1 win and 2 losses. if you want to talk about bad losses...all 3 teams at 1-2 had a 3-0 loss. a 2nd team had to go through. nobody had a great resume. it came down to the second tiebreaker and the us went on. its not like you can make a compelling case for another country.
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