DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jun 1, 2009 12:21:17 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Posts: 30,495
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 3, 2010 6:29:48 GMT -5
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 3, 2010 14:07:10 GMT -5
I would like it if we could get a SG in both 2011 and 2012 classes, there are some long ones out there. A C in the 2011 class. A PF in the 2012 class. A PG in the 2012 class.
So for 10-11: Wright, Starks Clark, Vee Freeman, Hollis Greg, Benimon, Sims Vaughn, Lubick
For 11-12: Clark (I hope he will be better with the ball and our primary ball handler/facilitator of the offense), Starks Vee, Long SG Hollis Greg (prolly gone though), Benimon, Sims Lubick, Tall Defensive black hole C
I hope Greg is not still here for his Sr. year because then next season went very badly as well but even if he does leave Benimon, Sims, Lubick, and hopefully a defensively impact Center that can contribute right away. For our guard that we would pick up, we would not need much from him other then the spot up shooter. If we were to get an under the radar SG/SF/PF combo I wouldn't be too mad also. But he would have to be ok with playing behind Hollis
For 12-13: Starks, PG/Combo Guard Vee, SG '11 Hollis, Goodman Benimon, Sims, PF star player Lubick, C '11
Really, looking forward to 12-13 season we are looking great. Senior Hollis, Vee, and Benimon. Junior Lubick and Starks. And 2 sophmore bench/role players. It would be nice to add another star player that could make an immediate impact freshman year, posistion wise I was thinking of a 3,4,5. We would also need to bring in another guard, I was thinking a ball handler but of course it won't hurt if they were a shooter as well, but that all depends on how Vee develops.
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 4, 2010 11:13:18 GMT -5
Anyone agree or disagree? ;D
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Huntsville Hoya
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Post by Huntsville Hoya on Mar 4, 2010 13:14:58 GMT -5
I know that we are looking at Rakeem (2012) and Moses (2011) and it is probably 50/50 for either, is it a forgone conclusion that Gorski, Leek, or Jordan O will be here as insurance.
I say this because I don't believe Hank Sims is any good and I don't want another one of him ever.
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Post by dcc33 on Mar 4, 2010 13:27:25 GMT -5
I know that we are looking at Rakeem (2012) and Moses (2011) and it is probably 50/50 for either, is it a forgone conclusion that Gorski, Leek, or Jordan O will be here as insurance. I say this because I don't believe Hank Sims is any good and I don't want another one of him ever. If we're ever going to take a chance on a kid, I want it to be a young for his class, 6-10 guy with athleticism like Sims. The upside there is much higher than any other position (compare him to Wattad or Nikita). He hasn't panned out just yet, but how many can't miss big guys are there every year? I think Sims will be fine the next two years if he keeps working at it. I think we'd be crazy not to take Jordan O - we have no shortage of scholarships, and you can't pass up on a 7-3 guy who could be the next Hibbert. Those are the guys you take a chance on.
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Mar 4, 2010 13:49:12 GMT -5
I know nothing about Jordan O, so I don't want this to come off as maligning him at all. But, are we really talking about the next Roy? Or is that just us as fans seeing a local 7'+ project and assuming he can be the next Roy? Duke fans thought Zoubek would be the next Roy too.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 4, 2010 13:55:32 GMT -5
Rakeem is 2011. Moses is 2010. I don't get the Sims-bashing. Yes, he hasn't been a contributor yet, but he's young and bigs just tend to take longer.
Before slapping a Roy on players, people need to realize that:
a) Roy was extremely skilled b) Roy was very young for his grade c) Roy became a pretty darn good HS player during his senior year d) Roy was an extremely hard worker
Tall and lower ranked are not enough for a comp. I know nothing about Jordan O, so I don't know how he fits the other four.
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Post by dcc33 on Mar 4, 2010 14:47:38 GMT -5
I don't know Jordan, and have not seen him play in person, so what I say is based on second hand info. And yes, he seems to be a very different type of player than Roy - that label only comes because they are both 7+ feet and local.
But - Jordan is young, local, 7-3/280 (that is freaking huge), in good shape, runs the floor quite well for his size, and is aggressive around the rim. Assuming he is willing to work hard (I've heard he does), and wants to come to GU (I believe there is definite interest), I'd take a chance on a kid like that. The absolute worst case is that you have a Zoubek, which isn’t the end of the world. Best case scenario is obvious. And not like we ever seem to be in a scholarship crunch. If we are taking a chance on a player who isn’t a can’t miss prospect, which you sometimes have to – I want either a big center, or a long, athletic wing who can defend multiple positions. No more one dimensional ‘shooters’ who can’t shoot, defend a chair, or rebound.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Mar 4, 2010 14:53:23 GMT -5
If nothing else the kid scares the crap outta kids when they drive the lane.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Mar 4, 2010 15:02:30 GMT -5
Anyone agree or disagree? ;D HH, I used to write posts like yours all the time but eventually realized it's really impossible to predict more than like, a year ahead (you probably already know this). Guys will transfer, guys will leave early, guys will de-commit or not qualify, guys will not pan out. The only thing you can count on is that things will change. Even in the short-term things change. Remember a few months back, before the season, when everybody was sure that the starting lineup would include Sims and Thompson? Nobody counted on the development of JV and JC and nobody realized it'd take Sims and Hollis more time to adjust. Extrapolate that over several years and factor in lots of additional variables, and things will change a ton. Don't even get me started on all the roster projections that I was making a few years back that were factoring in guys like Macklin, Braswell and Riley across our front court. Plus--and I can't say this for sure, but I definitely think it's true--the staff doesn't really recruit to fill "spots". They're not projecting out the roster and saying, "OK, well, in 2012, we need a long shooting guard" and then going and searching the country for somebody who fits the description. They're more looking for "players" and much less focused on positions. I mean obviously if a guy is big, athletic, can shoot, etc those are all things working in his favor, but it's not like a roster engineering situation where they try to gauge what might be needed and then find somebody to plug in. They're more looking for guys who have talent and guys who they have a shot at based either on the guy being local, having some connections with the guys high school or AAU program, or whatever. There've been several times when fans have been crowing "We need a _____!" and nobody materializes, and there have been times when the staff has made plays for guys that were headscratchers based on their position. 2 current recruits illustrate this well. First, look at Mo Walker. I'm pretty sure we could easily bring this guy in if we wanted to (Pitt has no space and next best option for him would be SHU) and if we made a strong push. But, we're not. On paper, "6-foot-10, center with bulk" sounds perfect for us, you'd think we'd snap a guy like that up in a second, right? But we're not. Why? IMO, it's because the guy isn't really that good, even though he sounds like a winner on paper. III has done this before too--lots of fans wanted us to take guys like Biggie McClain or Kyle Rowley or even Jakub Kusmieruk--all of whom we easily could have had--because they looked like fits on paper. Turns out, none of 'em are very good, which is why III didn't offer them. IMO Walker will be in the same boat when we look back in a few years. On the other hand, look at Quinn Cook. A 5'10 point guard would not seem like a priority at all in 2011 considering we've got a similar player in Starks coming the year before. But, Cook is a stud, probable All-American, and he's playing just across town at a school we've successfully recruited the last few years. If you have a shot at that kind of talent you have to take it, regardless of how the depth chart might look a few years out. Bottom line I guess is that for 2011 and especially for 2012, they are mostly just trying to find guys with talent, not guys who fill projected needs or who pencil neatly into future depth charts. I'm sure on some level, somewhere along the way, things like "we could use some size" or "we could use another ball handler" cross their mind, especially in situations where they're recruiting for the immediate future (see last spring's 2 pickups). But at this point for 2012 I think they're just trying to find the best players they can, because the depth chart will most likely look very different than we'd expect by the time they get here.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 4, 2010 15:41:08 GMT -5
dcc,
I definitely love having 7'. I just think comparisons to Roy are a little unfair all around. He was a pretty unique case.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 4, 2010 15:49:28 GMT -5
Nice post, RB. I remember calling for Hollis to start playing last spring semester. As for Walker, I haven't seen him play so I'll trust the staff. I think his offer will come down to whether Greg stays or not.
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Mar 4, 2010 15:53:43 GMT -5
Yeah I agree with SF. Not saying Jordan O would be a bad pickup by any stretch of the imagination. You can't teach that size, and if he's 280 already, that's a big big kid. One who could become a serious rebounder and defender, at the very least, especially if he's as mobile as you describe. I kind of see him and Moses as competing for the same spot (not sure if we could take both even though they are in different classes), especially if we could get Xmas. Just not sure 7'+ and local will mean 7'+ and local with insanely soft touch and deft post moves.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 4, 2010 17:13:38 GMT -5
Rakeem is 2011. Moses is 2010. I don't get the Sims-bashing. Yes, he hasn't been a contributor yet, but he's young and bigs just tend to take longer. Before slapping a Roy on players, people need to realize that: a) Roy was extremely skilled b) Roy was very young for his grade c) Roy became a pretty darn good HS player during his senior year d) Roy was an extremely hard worker Tall and lower ranked are not enough for a comp. I know nothing about Jordan O, so I don't know how he fits the other four. The only thing I would disagree with is #3. If you look at the numbers Roy actually became a pretty darn good high school player in his junior season once all of his foot problems were behind him. By his senior season Roy had become First Team All Met worthy although curiously he only made 2nd Team All Met. Folks claim Jordan O has more upside and that may be the case. In fact I hope the Hoyas get him just as long as they have a Christmas in the fold. But I don't know as of yet if Jordan O has been anywhere near a factor in high school play as Roy was.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 4, 2010 17:14:34 GMT -5
If nothing else the kid scares the crap outta kids when they drive the lane. Yeah, this I would agree with.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 4, 2010 17:28:25 GMT -5
Yeah I agree with SF. Not saying Jordan O would be a bad pickup by any stretch of the imagination. You can't teach that size, and if he's 280 already, that's a big big kid. One who could become a serious rebounder and defender, at the very least, especially if he's as mobile as you describe. I kind of see him and Moses as competing for the same spot (not sure if we could take both even though they are in different classes), especially if we could get Xmas. Just not sure 7'+ and local will mean 7'+ and local with insanely soft touch and deft post moves. Regardless of who stays or goes I think the Hoyas can definitely fit bringing in Christmas, Abraham and Jordan O. Because even if every member of the Hoya returns next season, by the time a Christmas and Jordan O come aboard the team would be without Vaughn and almost certainly without Monroe. but what the Hoyas would not be able to likely do is bring in a fourth guy over that same time period which would mean you would exclude Hopkins, the big kid from DeMatha. Because that would mean, if the scenario unfolded, for the 2011-2012 season your bigs would be : Sims Lubick Christmas Abraham Jordan O with Jerrell, unless he develops into a SF, still playing time at the PF spot. Now if some player leaves or transfers before he graduates that may change things. But as of now I can't really see the team bringing in any more than three more bigs over the next year or so to go along with Nate. As of result if the team successfully adds another big to the 2010 class (lets say Abraham) and if the team is fortunate to get its top target in Christmas (2011) ithe decision may come down to does III go with the PF who may be soft but has loads of potential and skills (Hopkins) or the true center who is raw but could be a monster (Jordan O).
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 4, 2010 17:42:06 GMT -5
MCI, I defer to you on timing.
I just remember that in his senior year (and later) people were still saying he sucked, and he was dropping 20 and 10, crushing Peter Prowitt (who was higher ranked) and was a pretty darn good player. It was like because he was only putting up 10 and 5 (or whatever) as a 14 year old, he was destined to suck forever.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Mar 4, 2010 19:20:52 GMT -5
If nothing else the kid scares the crap outta kids when they drive the lane. In theory yes--but ID, how will he do that when he's 40 feet away from hoop "hedging"? Can he recover quickly enough to get to rim? Things to need to change--and that's all great to have size--but you have to adapt to type of team you have/what your opponent does/doesnt' do well. People discredit Roy Hibbert's abilities/talents and it's due to fact he wasn't an "explosive player". He was a great talent and possesses skill that few bigs in world do--passing/shooting--and he's worked hard to improve his athleticism. Jordan O--works hard, is massive and............well he's big. Great--how does that fit? I want a more mobile team--and big team doesn't mean you need a giant center--means you are big across the board. I'll take an aggressive team and if you are recruiting Rakeem Christmas--you must be thinking of changing the system a bit--because you don't get a great shot blocker and have him 30 feet out all the time. He's got to protect the rim.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Mar 4, 2010 20:28:34 GMT -5
Moses would already be a junior when Jordan O arrives, so I see no issue with respect to that. Agree that the biggest question is whether Jordan O is the right fit.
I think the only person trashing Roy around here during his senior season was Ignatius. I'd say he was incorrect.
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