Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,304
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Post by Cambridge on Feb 26, 2009 10:37:48 GMT -5
Simple solution: how about the refs be accountable for once and call a good game? You figure after the first 3-4 times the entire crowd booed (and this is not the norm for a Verizon Center crowd that tends not to get on officials the same way other places do), they would get the hint, no? They were an embarrassment during the Marquette game, and for much of the 2nd half against L'ville. I'm with JK here, I am also sick and tired of never getting the calls at home like so many other top team routinely do. It always seems like other guys have "reputation guys" who get all the calls even when they don't always deserve them. Why haven't guys like Wright and Monroe gotten them? It still continues to baffle me. Monroe was getting calls early in the season. See his FT rate. However, both are effectively freshmen in their first run through the BE schedule. They need to keep attacking and they'll earn the reputation they deserve. |
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Feb 26, 2009 11:36:35 GMT -5
Wright gets hacked, but he also gets away with some stuff. The one play (all these losses are blending together, so forgive me if I reference the wrong game) recently against Marquette, where he drove the lane with a spin move that resulted in a shoulder to the chest of the defender sticks in my mind.
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Post by bosoxfan3 on Feb 26, 2009 14:28:12 GMT -5
Also, while the cursing is of course horrible, I also felt that the entire arena came very close to booing the Hoyas tonight (there were times when it wasn't exactly clear who was being booed). I personally won't abide booing the team (silence I understand, and in fact encourage). I didn't hear the F-you chant, but I can believe that it happened. I agree with the sentiment above- I don't like it, but I can understand it. The game was really frustrating. The most classless thing I thought though was what happened during the National Anthem before the Marquette game- those of you on the non-band side (and probably some on the band side) must have heard someone yell at different times during quiet(er) parts of the anthem "Marquette sucks" and " Edited you Marquette!" As for booing the team, however, I have a different perspective on that. It certainly is not something to be done lightly, but there are times when that really is the only possible release. I don't know how many of you remember the Cincy game (here), when JTIII benched all the starters, and the crowd alternated between cheering for the bench guys and booing the starters. In that case, since that was absolutely horrendous, effortless (in the bad sense) basketball by our starting five, booing was absolutely okay. I'm not someone who thinks that you should be a rah-rah supporter of your team all the time. Incessant complaining is not a good thing, but to notice and be very upset with, say our lack of rebounding or inability to hit important free throws is not something that should be frowned upon by other fans. |
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quickplay
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 733
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Post by quickplay on Feb 26, 2009 14:39:43 GMT -5
i do think that the 'we are' chant came off poorly at the time. we were down and being outplayed, and it just seemed tone deaf to the situation.
it has nothing to do with being a 'real' fan or not.
a lecture about how to be a fan and how we're always georgetown is ridiculous. it sounded stupid at the time.
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
Posts: 4,544
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Post by FLHoya on Feb 26, 2009 18:15:28 GMT -5
Simple solution: how about the refs be accountable for once and call a good game? You figure after the first 3-4 times the entire crowd booed (and this is not the norm for a Verizon Center crowd that tends not to get on officials the same way other places do), they would get the hint, no? They were an embarrassment during the Marquette game, and for much of the 2nd half against L'ville. I'm with JK here, I am also sick and tired of never getting the calls at home like so many other top team routinely do. It always seems like other guys have "reputation guys" who get all the calls even when they don't always deserve them. Why haven't guys like Wright and Monroe gotten them? It still continues to baffle me. I'm sorry man, I ain't feeling you here. You're following down the same path of jk's post, the argument map of which was essentially: 1. It's not okay for students to curse at officials. 2. Except when I did it, then it was totally okay, because those refs were F***KING terrible. You're both good people, but I gotta roll my eyes when people play this indignation card. I'm cool with everyone exercising their right to free speech (Karl Hess is a jackhole anyways). I'm just not buying it when folks try to turn it into some righteous crusade where they personally are fighting for Chris Wright's right to an unmolested layup against the evil forces of Bob Donato. Gotta break it to you--officials don't give a crap. Ain't the first time they've heard the F word. I can't remember which game it was--thinking Pittsburgh--after which I posted to the effect that officiating is a short-term excuse that covers up long-term issues (two of which, incidentally, are that we play terrible defense and are always grabbing/tackling guys to make up for it, and too often we drive into the lane out of control hoping for a bailout call). Every fan base uses officiating as an excuse from time to time to make themselves feel better about a bad loss--just like every other group of fans besides yours is "classless" (hat tip to the Yahoo! blogger who made that point today). If you're still deadset on believing there's some bizarre officiating bias against Georgetown, take a longer term view and consider it an evening out of the karma from last season. You remember last season, right? The one where after our home games against Syracuse, UConn, and Villanova, and road games against West Virginia and Marquette, Big East message boards were lighting up with complaints that "GTown gets all the calls". And that wasn't well, the officiating was uneven in an 18 point game--this was 50/50 calls all going our way at the absolute most crucial moment. It's the same officials we've trashed from this week or this year who made those calls. John Cahill gave PEJr. a basket late in the UConn game after he almost certainly travelled, and called the foul that sent JWall to the line for three against Marquette. Hightower and Driscoll (from Sat. game) and Corbett (Monday) were the crew that no-called PEJr's block in Morgantown. Bob Donato (Monday) called the infamous foul 3/4 of the court from the basket that gave us the Nova game. You probably think all of those calls were CORRECT, right? With the exception of the first one, so do I. But let's not pretend they weren't 50/50 cals that could have just as easily gone the other way...or that a lot of calls in a game we bitch and moan about aren't 50/50 calls at worst on closer review. You know what I heard about three times Monday night? Some variation on "Well, getting on the refs worked against UNC...maybe it'll work this time too." Probably should get away from that thinking. We won that game because we executed flawlessly on offense and locked down UNC to the point they imploded. Curtis Shaw had nothing to do with it. Speaking of jackholes. |
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Post by jkhoya12 on Feb 26, 2009 20:33:50 GMT -5
Simple solution: how about the refs be accountable for once and call a good game? You figure after the first 3-4 times the entire crowd booed (and this is not the norm for a Verizon Center crowd that tends not to get on officials the same way other places do), they would get the hint, no? They were an embarrassment during the Marquette game, and for much of the 2nd half against L'ville. I'm with JK here, I am also sick and tired of never getting the calls at home like so many other top team routinely do. It always seems like other guys have "reputation guys" who get all the calls even when they don't always deserve them. Why haven't guys like Wright and Monroe gotten them? It still continues to baffle me. I'm sorry man, I ain't feeling you here. You're following down the same path of jk's post, the argument map of which was essentially: 1. It's not okay for students to curse at officials. 2. Except when I did it, then it was totally okay, because those refs were F***KING terrible. You're both good people, but I gotta roll my eyes when people play this indignation card. I'm cool with everyone exercising their right to free speech (Karl Hess is a jackhole anyways). I'm just not buying it when folks try to turn it into some righteous crusade where they personally are fighting for Chris Wright's right to an unmolested layup against the evil forces of Bob Donato. Gotta break it to you--officials don't give a crap. Ain't the first time they've heard the F word. I can't remember which game it was--thinking Pittsburgh--after which I posted to the effect that officiating is a short-term excuse that covers up long-term issues (two of which, incidentally, are that we play terrible defense and are always grabbing/tackling guys to make up for it, and too often we drive into the lane out of control hoping for a bailout call). Every fan base uses officiating as an excuse from time to time to make themselves feel better about a bad loss--just like every other group of fans besides yours is "classless" (hat tip to the Yahoo! blogger who made that point today). If you're still deadset on believing there's some bizarre officiating bias against Georgetown, take a longer term view and consider it an evening out of the karma from last season. You remember last season, right? The one where after our home games against Syracuse, UConn, and Villanova, and road games against West Virginia and Marquette, Big East message boards were lighting up with complaints that "GTown gets all the calls". And that wasn't well, the officiating was uneven in an 18 point game--this was 50/50 calls all going our way at the absolute most crucial moment. It's the same officials we've trashed from this week or this year who made those calls. John Cahill gave PEJr. a basket late in the UConn game after he almost certainly travelled, and called the foul that sent JWall to the line for three against Marquette. Hightower and Driscoll (from Sat. game) and Corbett (Monday) were the crew that no-called PEJr's block in Morgantown. Bob Donato (Monday) called the infamous foul 3/4 of the court from the basket that gave us the Nova game. You probably think all of those calls were CORRECT, right? With the exception of the first one, so do I. But let's not pretend they weren't 50/50 cals that could have just as easily gone the other way...or that a lot of calls in a game we bitch and moan about aren't 50/50 calls at worst on closer review. You know what I heard about three times Monday night? Some variation on "Well, getting on the refs worked against UNC...maybe it'll work this time too." Probably should get away from that thinking. We won that game because we executed flawlessly on offense and locked down UNC to the point they imploded. Curtis Shaw had nothing to do with it. Speaking of jackholes. My reasoning is far from it's not okay for students to curse at officials but it is for me. My reasoning: it's not okay for the student section to collectively curse at officials, it is fine for kids to have their moments. Trust me, I have found the hardest time blaming officiating for any loss. I hate to blame officiating. I've been sitting on the bus back where everyone was complaining and I just could not do it, but there is no question in my mind that we don't get close to the amount of respect that other teams do(no I'm not talking about Duke) on their home court. Not to mention, Louisville was a Big Monday game and instead of getting McDonough, Bilas, and Raftery, we get Mike Patrick and Len Elmore(possibly the worst announcing combination since the Big East Network guys). One more thing, I was again not cursing a ref for a call on the way out. Furthermore, I would argue that not only were the calls bad both ways but the refs made absurd make up calls that I absolutely hate. I like seeing a well-officiated game where it's hard for either side to complain and neither Louisville or Marquette were that way. There is no question that Big East officiating has been absolutely horrific this season. It's unacceptable. |
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Post by RockawayHoya on Feb 26, 2009 22:40:02 GMT -5
Just because the officiating hasn't been good doesn't mean it's cost us games. I actually thought it was terrible when we blew out Cuse. It was terrible when we played at ND and played so horribly ourselves we didn't deserve to win the game. And even though Greg got a phantom T at Cameron, I don't think we could've definitively said we would have won the game had he been not confined to the bench for most of the 2nd half. Honestly, it's been bad throughout the year, but to be fair it hasn't been game-deciding like last year's J-Wal play vs. Nova, Jeff's bank shot vs. Vandy, or even the Julius Page / Drew Hall play (yes, FL I'm bringing it back). So if you go back and see the vast majority of my previous post-game discussion posts from thus year, I've made it a point to say "yes the refs sucked, but it didn't factor in the outcome of the game." The Marquette game was the only game this year where I felt differently.
That said, I'll reiterate my original point: the Verizon crowd tends not to get on officials as much as other places do. So you can bet that when not just the students, but virtually the entire home crowd is booing the officials even during timeouts like they did on Monday, they're doing a pretty Edited-poor job. Do I condone organized cussing at refs? No. And obviously I know they (the refs) don't give a damn about what we say. But either way, they are going to continue to get an earful from me if they don't do their job. They did their job when we got smoked by Pitt and WVU. I didn't hear the crowd getting on the refs then. I guess my main point is that when we (as in being the VC crowd) have gotten on the refs this year, it has been deserved. So no, I won't take back anything I've said to the officials.
For all the games you cite where we got the benefit of the doubt on a call or two, I can bring up Ohio St. (Oden's non-charge for #4), Davidson somehow getting to the line 25-30 times against us, Bobo tying up Corey Brewer, and Mike Sweetney "sitting in the paint." Yes, I realize bad calls even out over time, but the plain fact is that there are just way too many of them on both sides. Even when watching games where I really have no rooting interest, generally the officiating has been subpar. Overall, it needs to get better, and I have no problem with fans who feel like they should tell the refs just that, because they're right.
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Post by bosoxfan3 on Feb 26, 2009 23:29:38 GMT -5
In terms of officiating, the most egregious games this year were the duke game (with big east officials, by the way) and the Marquette game. The Duke game I felt the calls were horrendously tilted in the Blue Devils' favor, but in the Marquette game I felt the calls were just in general horrendous. There have certainly been other instances of terrible officiating both ways, but obviously the Marquette game is freshest in my mind.
I do think its important to recognize when we are just flat out beat (Pitt, WVU, and a few others) lets not start acting like the Cameron Crazies who seem to be so used to the calls that [everybody else thinks that they] get, that they immediately call for blood when the Blue Devils get called for more than five fouls in a half.
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