mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,088
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Post by mapei on Nov 28, 2008 1:06:00 GMT -5
Wow - did we really hit only four outside shots in 40 minutes? I don't know about "negative vibe," but I do think lowered aspirations may be in order. Someone above mentioned the phrase "national championship," which strikes me as WAY beyond realistic for this team. Counting Jeff, we just lost one of the best classes in Hoya hoops history. How about we expect a winning season in the Big East and a tourney bid?
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,014
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Post by dense on Nov 28, 2008 1:22:44 GMT -5
I think people are too quick to see a game and go thats what kind of team we are. I look at it as a positive that we winning while guys are learning lessons. These guys have never played together and it will take some time for it all to gel. I think tomorrow is a better measure than being able to get away with murder in terms of a performance and still win cause the opposition isnt that good. JT3 said it best we need to make the shots we normally make. We arent this bad of a shooting team. There is no way. We are a potentially explosive offensive team, even jt3 has said that. I just think guys have to settle in and see where they are the one thing im concered about is how Jessie isnt searching out shots I think he'd be better in that role, to look for the open spots to launch some outside shots. Kinda how i envisioned this season for him, getting lots of open 3's cause of the weapons around him. He seems to be kinda trying to let the young guys try to get theirs and be a distributor.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,224
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Post by hoyarooter on Nov 28, 2008 3:41:20 GMT -5
There isn't anything positive about barely being able to beat a team that was picked to finish next to last in a mid-major conference. Nothing. Well, I retract that. It's better than losing. I thought our performance today was terrible. We could hardly score from outside two feet (in fact, we didn't make a shot from the field longer than a layup until Sapp's three in the last minute of the first half - I don't think I've ever seen such a stretch of futility from a Hoya team, not even some of Pop's last teams that couldn't shoot straight, or the final Esh team), our rebounding was abominable, we made careless turnovers. If we don't play MUCH better than this in our conference games, we won't finish in the top half of the Big East or get the NCAA bid that everyone is taking for granted. That's not to say that we won't improve. We just have to improve, a lot.
And here's something else. There is a very good chance that we will be playing Maryland on Sunday. If that happens, and we lose, this season is ruined. Nothing short of going to the Final Four (which isn't going to happen) would make it salvageable.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Nov 28, 2008 3:57:39 GMT -5
Hoyarooter,
that post was beyond jumping off the bridge. So you can surmise that we're not going to the final four based on the THIRD game of the season? That made me laugh.
Look, we played awful. But this team has talent and alot of it. I'm pretty sure we'll somehow find a way to bounce back. we may even lose tomorrow, but this is a good team and will find its way into the tournament....somehow
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Nov 28, 2008 9:52:00 GMT -5
Barker's homerism is showing again. He wrote in the game recap:
"In arguably the ugliest, sloppiest game of John Thompson III's tenure on the Hilltop, the 21st-ranked Hoyas slogged to a 58-50 survival against Wichita State in the first round of the Old Spice Classic."
No way was that the ugliest of JT3's tenure. Was it ugly? Yes. Did it compare so some of the clunkers that of the first year? I mean, Norfolk St. took us to overtime at Verizon. We didn't score for like 15 minutes against BC. Ray Reed figured prominently in our offense. We lost to Old Dominion at McDonough by 13 points and were outrebounded by a mediocre Nova that year at home 56-52 with 21 turnovers. We also went to a Final Four that year and won the Big East.
So yes, it was ugly. Yes, the Hoyas played pretty poorly. But they played defense in the second half and they gutted out a win with some big play by Austin, Jessie and Dajuan/Monroe. People need to get off the ledge (including Barker and his short memory). It's a young team and they're not fully formed--they will improve because they have JT3 coaching them. The question is how much and how quickly.
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
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Post by TBird41 on Nov 28, 2008 9:56:55 GMT -5
I'd also like to point out that I am a lot less worried about our ability to match up with Big East 3's when we go 3 guard (Wright, Clark and Sapp) now that I know that Spare Change has a 6'6 wingspan.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,607
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 28, 2008 10:36:14 GMT -5
TBird, not sure how that Davis line qualifies as homerism. Wouldn't that be saying the Hoyas played great despite the visual evidence (a kazillion turnovers) to the contrary? I think I know what you're getting at, but I wouldn't call it homerism.
Austin Freeman anyone? 6-10 from the floor and 18 vital points? One of the best games I have seen him play.
The zone offense is a few well-timed Wright, Clark, or Sapp drives down the lane from working well.
It is amazing how well Monroe already gets the offense: he had a beauty of a blind drop pass in the lane for a layup assist in the second half.
Can I get a hand for the clutch free throw shooting down the stretch as well?
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,088
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Post by mapei on Nov 28, 2008 10:35:52 GMT -5
There is a very good chance that we will be playing Maryland on Sunday. If that happens, and we lose, this season is ruined. Nothing short of going to the Final Four (which isn't going to happen) would make it salvageable. That thought is absolutely terrifying. Who is Spare Change and where does the nickname come from?
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dailey247
Century (over 100 posts)
Deleted
Posts: 126
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Post by dailey247 on Nov 28, 2008 10:44:44 GMT -5
Haters are most definitely in the house. Can't say that I blame you, but I'm not throwing in the towel on this season just yet. Some reasons for optimism: 1) Yes, we gave up a bunch of O-boards, as always. We also allowed 50 points on (I think) 63 possessions. That's a defensive efficiency of 79.4, a better than excellent figure. Bottom line - if we, despite our shortcomings, keep playing that quality of OVERALL defense, we will win many games this year. 2) Our zone offense looked about as bad as it ever has - and that is pretty bad. I did notice a few bright spots, though. One that particularly jumped out at me came when Julian Vaughn collected a pass in the short corner (a big soft spot in a standard 2-3 zone), took one dribble, and went up strong, drawing a foul. If I noticed this on TV, I'm sure JTIII noticed it when he watched the tapes last night. Hopefully, we refine our zone O as the year progresses to the point where there are more strong attacks than weak ones. 3) This team is absolutely NAILS from the stripe down the stretch. Unlike every other season of Hoya hoops I've followed, this year I have no worries about closing out a win in the last 2 minutes.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,910
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Post by Filo on Nov 28, 2008 11:07:14 GMT -5
I couldn't really focus on the game, although I had it on the TV in the middle of a houseful of Thanksgiving Day guests. One thing that struck me is that everyone said how porrly Wright did (Gottlieb said he was basically a no-show), but he still led the team in rebounding and assists.
The lack of rebounding, the failure to handle the press, the turnovers -- these are all really frustrating. But let's all step back a bit. Everyone around here pretty much expected a pretty slow start (the standard line was something like we'll struggle early, but watch out come March). For some reason, reality kinda got lost in the shuffle as the season started. This team will struggle. But they have a lot of talent and they will be a force, just not as soon as we all want.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 28, 2008 12:47:22 GMT -5
Interesting that Wichita State defeated Siena today 72-70. Will play the winner of the Michigan State- Oklahoma State game on Sunday.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Nov 28, 2008 12:58:49 GMT -5
There isn't anything positive about barely being able to beat a team that was picked to finish next to last in a mid-major conference. Nothing. Well, I retract that. It's better than losing. I thought our performance today was terrible. We could hardly score from outside two feet (in fact, we didn't make a shot from the field longer than a layup until Sapp's three in the last minute of the first half - I don't think I've ever seen such a stretch of futility from a Hoya team, not even some of Pop's last teams that couldn't shoot straight, or the final Esh team), our rebounding was abominable, we made careless turnovers. If we don't play MUCH better than this in our conference games, we won't finish in the top half of the Big East or get the NCAA bid that everyone is taking for granted. That's not to say that we won't improve. We just have to improve, a lot. And here's something else. There is a very good chance that we will be playing Maryland on Sunday. If that happens, and we lose, this season is ruined. Nothing short of going to the Final Four (which isn't going to happen) would make it salvageable. I have a question. What did you expect this team to look like in Novemeber? This season won't be judged based on what we do on November, it will begin to be judged once January and February roll around. Can't wait to see this board after we actually lose a game.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,224
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Post by hoyarooter on Nov 29, 2008 3:46:06 GMT -5
I expected a team that wouldn't give up bushels of offensive rebounds to the likes of Jacksonville and Wichita State. This is a big problem. I also expected a team that would shoot better than it has from the perimeter. Hopefully, this won't be a lasting problem. We really need the bench to contribute more. It's a very young group, so hopefully that will come. And lastly, I didn't expect to be playing Maryland. Losing this game is not an option.
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Nov 29, 2008 10:37:42 GMT -5
Who is Spare Change and where does the nickname come from? Spare Change is Jason Clark. JT2 gave it to him because he does all the little things. TBird, not sure how that Davis line qualifies as homerism. Wouldn't that be saying the Hoyas played great despite the visual evidence (a kazillion turnovers) to the contrary? I think I know what you're getting at, but I wouldn't call it homerism. You're right. Homerism isn't the right word. But it's something similar. Maybe "Hoyatalkism"? When one is too critical and short sighted so they develop a tunnel vision about their team.
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