blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by blueandgray on Nov 27, 2008 16:58:34 GMT -5
survive and advance:).
I missed jwall today. I guess dajuan was somewhat of a settling force in the 2nd half...but when things get hairy, other than Jessie, i'm not sure who provides the calming force on the team.
sidenote - I thought clark played like a freshman today.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 27, 2008 17:09:48 GMT -5
Just back from the game. Very sloppy. Offense was not run well. Rebounding still needs work. Defense not bad. Monroe has excellent footwork and fundamentals and got called for at least one foul simply because he was quicker than the opponent.
More later - heading to the HHC Turkey buffet.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Nov 27, 2008 17:13:14 GMT -5
The most frustrating thing was that it was us beating ourselves not Wichita St. beating us if they had played great and forced this tough game that'd be one thing, but we just played terrible and let them stay in a game they had no business being in.
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blueeagle
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Win or lose, it's the school we choose.
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Post by blueeagle on Nov 27, 2008 17:19:47 GMT -5
We definitely looked rusty. No aggressiveness on defense, no decision-making on offense, and no rebounding on either end. Wichita State is not a good team. They did not play well. But still they made a game of it. How - they were aggressive on both ends and on the glass. They probably took shots they would not normally take, but they took them because they knew they had to play with some urgency to avoid getting blown out early.
I thought that we played defense at the start and at the end of the game. We denied passing lanes, challenged shots, and forced TO's. Well, mostly that was just Greg manhandling the WSU center. But then we allowed WSU back into the game by missing our shots and by missing assignments. Rather than forcing WSU to take challenged jumpers, we allowed them to get into the seams of our defense, hoist some off-balanced jumpers, and then grab the offensive boards as our big guys were out of position. The argument that we are undersized will not fly as WSU was undersized as well. How much more undersized will we be next to Pitt, Louisville, and UConn? Plus the silly fouls were murder!
The offense was stagnant. Our guys just seemed to stand around waiting for Greg to post up. We were unable to break down WSU's "set defense" except for a few inside buckets by Monroe and Dajuan. Opposing teams will continue to play us the same way unless we show an ability to break the press more efficiently and to score against the zone.
I cannot tell whether we play with poise or if we lack passion. I don't think we need chest-pumping and floor-slapping on every other play. I just want to see the guys play like they are having fun on the court. This group supposedly felt more cohesive than prior years' teams. I am just not seeing it yet.
Greg is by far the STUD of the farm. I feel that Dajuan and Jesse need to step up their games a bit more. They did show some leadership towards the end game but they need to step it up early on. Freeman - solid performance but he needs to help on the boards - unless they want him to trail back for fastbreak opportunities. Many on this board have stated that Chris Wright will be a future pro. Needs some work before he's mentioned in the same breath as Iverson, Sleepy, or even KBras. Vaughn did not look comfortable playing big at all. He is like an undersized Othella Harrington, if you get my drift. Wattad, Clark - blah.
I am definitely glad we came away with a win, but I am very worried with how we will fare in this tournament and in early Big East play. For folks bashing Duke, 'Cuse, ND, etc for not looking sharp in recent games, take a good look at this game. See the log in your eye? We are notoriously slow starters. I just hope that the group learns how to play together and with passion by year's end.
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Post by HometownHoya on Nov 27, 2008 17:20:05 GMT -5
BTW on the non suit issues...why were the polos black!!!!! I loved em, but not black!!!
EDIT- Ok apparently they were dark blue ;D
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Just Cos
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Eat 'em up Hoyas
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Post by Just Cos on Nov 27, 2008 17:20:45 GMT -5
Different year, same problems.
First time getting to see the Hoyas and didn't expect it to be as close.
Greg Monroe is awesome. He is going to be special. We need to get him the ball as much as possible.
When he is double and tripled teamed, we need someone else to step up and make a play. Our offense seemed more Esh-esque than Princeton. Lots of standing around and shooting too quickly into the shot clock before trying inside.
REBOUND, REBOUND, REBOUND. Put your but into somebody.
Liked the quicker pace. The game would have been higher scoring if we could have hit more shots.
Fans were there but were not as loud as could be. Probably due to the fact we couldn't put a run together and mostly older fans.
WSU fans really impressed me. Knowledgeable and loud. They traveled well.
Pearl watched the whole game from the sideline. He was laughing a lot. Seemed like he was not impressed with us.
The Milk House is awesome. They should try to do more with that place.
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Just Cos
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Eat 'em up Hoyas
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Post by Just Cos on Nov 27, 2008 17:24:53 GMT -5
I cannot tell whether we play with poise or if we lack passion. I don't think we need chest-pumping and floor-slapping on every other play. I just want to see the guys play like they are having fun on the court. This group supposedly felt more cohesive than prior years' teams. I am just not seeing it yet. In person I didn't think this was the case. When they get into huddles and after dead balls they seem to be these things. They don't pound chests, but that's JTIII and the Hoyas.
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Just Cos
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Eat 'em up Hoyas
Posts: 1,506
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Post by Just Cos on Nov 27, 2008 17:25:34 GMT -5
BTW on the non suit issues...why were the polos black!!!!! I loved em, but not black!!! Polos were dark blue
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Eurostar
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Eurostar on Nov 27, 2008 17:44:51 GMT -5
Good first televised / away game to have. We'll play much better tomorrow against Tenn. Chris Wright needs to step up and handle the ball better and create. Dajuan needs to concentrate for the full 40 min and not just during crunch time.
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russodj
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Post by russodj on Nov 27, 2008 17:45:17 GMT -5
It's early but the team today had the same problem the team has had the past few years against zone defenses. The guards pass the ball back and forth 5-10 feet beyond the 3 point line without looking to penetrate or pass inside (free throw line or to the box). This ends with terrible 3 pointers at the end of the shot clock. It also allows the defense to rest when there is no pressure being put on them.
I love JTIII but Georgetown has one of the worst zone offenses I have seen over the past few years.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 27, 2008 17:50:39 GMT -5
What could be fatal flaws with this team: rebounding and outside shooting.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 27, 2008 17:51:52 GMT -5
Offensively, I'm worried a lot more about the turnovers than the outside shooting.
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Post by youngjeezy on Nov 27, 2008 18:05:51 GMT -5
from the espn recap:
Wichita State shot 27.9 percent (17-61) for the game, but outrebounded Georgetown 17-6 on the offensive boards.
"It's nice to know you can shoot 28 percent and still hang with a top-25 team," Marshall said.
call this game what you will (a learning experience, chickens running around with their heads cut off or somewhere in between), but i don't know how SQUEAKING BY against jacksonville and wichita st. inspires confidence. especially while we're being out-rebounded and jacking up ridiculously stupid 3's (sounds exactly like last year!)
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blueeagle
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Win or lose, it's the school we choose.
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Post by blueeagle on Nov 27, 2008 18:13:14 GMT -5
The rebounding margin and Marshall's comment should be plastered on the locker room wall for tomorrow's game if the guys need to be reminded of what to work on.
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by vcjack on Nov 27, 2008 18:12:44 GMT -5
Big Props to Gregg Marshall, made a drastic change when it looked like we would open up with a blowout and continuously threw different zone looks at us.
Good for Jessie and DaJuan to step up to save the game, but we really need a 40 min effort from one of those guys.
As for Chris, this game made some suppressed memories of the Davidson game come back. Unecessarily wild cross court passes and sloppy dribbling nearly did us in. But good for him and hitting those key free throws late.
Tennessee is a very different matchup but very talented, a win would be HUGE
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Post by tpk3 on Nov 27, 2008 18:15:57 GMT -5
1. sloppy game offensively. chris looked tentative and made poor decisions. his handle did not look as steady today. we will need him to be more assertive. just a bad game. he will rebound.
2. against the zone we looked stagnant. WS really settled into their zone. the zone has give us problem under JT3 but this year we have the zone buster. his name is Greg Monroe. like coach said- we need to run the offense through greg. When we did he usually made a good decision and we got a good look for himself or dajuan/austin. The guards need to trust Greg.
3. Ideally i would really like Greg to play the hybrid PF in college- similar to jeff and then to have vaughn/sims play the center position (although greg is more of a center right now than sims IMO). we could move greg more to the high post at times and make it eaisier for him to ge the ball and facilitate. It will be interesting to see if 3 plays vaughn/greg together. i have not seen that yet. it will also help with our rebounding problem.
4. Rebounding will be an issue all year and we will never be a great rebounding team. But we can be a decent/good rebounding team if we gang rebound more. too much standing around. if 3 plays sims/vaughn with greg and moves dajuan to the wing we can sometimes play big when we have a size disadvantage-- also a lineup i have not seen coach do yet but he might against bigger foes.
5. Freeman i thought played a solid offensive game. an all around good game that i expect from austin. he is a good scorer and has a nose for the rim.
6. Transition, transition, transition. It was key that we were able to get a few easy buckets- especially in the beginning. Until we find our rhythm with the offense these easy points will be key. After the first few minutes we did not get as many transition buckets as i would have liked.
7. Getting vaughn is a huge blessing this year. we will need his body. i never knew he was this much of a post player. i thought he played the perimeter more in HS/last yr but on this team we NEED him to rebound. he can play the center with those long arms. he does not have a developed back to the basket game but he has the makings of being a decent post player if he can settle down.
8. first road game for the freshman. Clark made some uncharacteristic bad decisions and his shot was not falling. i liked the brief period i saw henry sims. good block. he and monroe together play very well defensively. i do not mind him taking jumpers but 3s are a bit out of his range right now. a few feet in is preferable. monroe was monroe. we just need to feed him the ball more and he has to be careful when he jumps out on the perimeter against his defender. the kid will get better and better. he is special.
9. FTs were a positive today. we are going to shoot more foul shots this year so it imperative we make teams pay.
10. the more close games the better. yes, we would like to win every game by 30 but that is not reality. it is going to be a grind this year and we will be in close games all year long. good to see summers/sapp step up like leaders. very encouraging sign.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 27, 2008 18:24:58 GMT -5
The problem with the threes wasn't generally the shots themselves -- which were wide open and generally by good shooters -- but that we never really tried to break the zone. On the one hand I don't expect Chris and Austin to go 0-7 very often, but we really needed to keep going into Monroe and Summers down low.
They grabbed 17 out of 46 possible rebounds -- which is bad but "only" 37% - which is better than our performance versus Jacksonville but a regression from actually a pretty good overall defensive rebounding game versus Drexel.
Out offensive rebounding continues to be abysmal despite a nice spot from Freeman's two O boards. It was 22%, which is barely trying. We were at 34% (average) last year and 40% (great) two years ago. We're losing all those easy buckets in the half court, and it is killing the offense.
There were somewhere around 63-65 offensive possessions in this game, and we gave away 17 of them versus a mediocre team. That's around 27% of our possessions lost to turnover, a lot of those sloppy and lazy.
We can win games (but not titles) rebounding poorly. We can win games turning the ball over just a little better (22% in our Final four year). There's no way we can win doing BOTH, and I'm not sure we can win even doing one if they are at the extremes we were at today (grabbing only 40% of the boards and turning the ball over 27% of the time).
I think Thompson is an exceptional coach, but why can't we a) defensive rebound (there's no system issues there) or b) break a press?
Kudos to Austin, though. There's going to be a lot of grumbling about this game, but I'm not sure enough can be said about Austin's play. Two O boards of our six, aggressive overall play in general, and he could've done more damage if he was a bit more "on."
Kudos also to Summers, who played better than people are giving him credit. He didn't rebound, but I believe two of his three turnovers were actually Wright's fault and he made a ton of offensive plays down the stretch.
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Post by harwoodhoya on Nov 27, 2008 18:28:52 GMT -5
We looked a mess today! But we still won. For some reason even with the good start I was nervous. This game felt a lot like the Davidson game. We showed our youth and fatigue today. Plus rebouding was horrible. Did someone have a party last night and we attended.
A few suggestions;
Wright-avoid trapping areas on the court. Picked up the dribble in bad spots too much
Sapp-step up. Doesn't shoot enough. Also held the ball too much against the press.
Summers-work on pivoting, a lot of traveling plus find your "J". Leaving early better not be in your mind.
Sims-post up.
Vaughn-play with more passion
Clark-slow down. Plays at an aau speed.
I know jt3 won't let us play like that often. Hes too good a coach. But if I must say please put in a press breaker against a 2 man press don't matchup. That's why we struggle. A middle man seems to be missing a lot. Prediction we beat Tennessee by 4. But if we play like we did today especially with thw way we board, Tenn. by 20!
Ps-Ive seen all 3 games and we shoot like JT2 teams.
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hoyaboy1
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Nov 27, 2008 19:12:31 GMT -5
I still can't figure out why weak presses give us so much trouble - we waste at least 8 seconds on every possession.
I'd also like to see players (especially Wright) attacking the basket more in the half court - we are wasting his skills if he plays the same way Wallace did.
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Post by strummer8526 on Nov 27, 2008 19:24:09 GMT -5
At this point, I have to start wondering if some aspect of our coaching is a problem in terms of rebounds. I'm NOT questioning the Princeton system at all. But I AM questioning whether we approach rebounding the right way. What good is holding teams to a low FG%? If they shoot 20% but get 4 offensive rebounds every possession, then what have we accomplished?
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