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Post by capcenterhoya on Nov 18, 2008 11:23:23 GMT -5
Jacksonville seemed to switch in the second half to more of a flex offense with lots of screening and cutting, similar to what Boston College uses. This adjustment definitely gave our defense trouble and was a major contributor to the rebounding woes since our players were often chasing Jacksonville players around screens, putting them out of position on rebounds. Hopefully, JTIII can find a way to counter this strategy because smart coaches will do the same against us to mitigate our pressure defense on the perimeter.
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Post by chrismchaines on Nov 18, 2008 11:28:36 GMT -5
Good things and bad things in this game. Monroe looked great, Chris Wright showed some great flashes, Jesse was a calming force, press breaking and defense were both solid. DaJuan wasn't as assertive as I had hoped, but showed glimpses of it in the second half. Omar should stop shooting, but played great D.
We are really thin up front. Against teams like UConn and Louisville and Pitt they are going to have to play Vaughn and Monroe at the same time and if either of them gets in foul trouble the team will need to be carried by the backcourt which is ultimately (aside from Sapp) untested. There are going to rough patches during the season, but they are going to get good.
Quick aside: a friend of mine noticed something that alarmed me. He thinks they are going to have chemistry problems with the two alpha dogs in the back court: Sapp and Wright. I can't imagine Thompson letting that happen, but anybody have thoughts on that?
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Post by atlasfrysmith on Nov 18, 2008 12:02:28 GMT -5
Here's my take:
THINGS I WAS IMPRESSED BY: 1. Greg Monroe's offense. In the post we saw a hook from about 10 feet and a baseline move to seal off the defender and then bank in a layup. Confident, smooth, just what you'd expect from a solid post player--not at all what you'd expect from a post playing his first college game, no matter who it is. It looked like Jacksonville was sagging back a bit but not quite double-teaming Greg when he got the ball in the post--we'll have to wait a few games to see if he starts drawing doubles and how he reacts, but he did seem to make smart passes from the post tonight. We also saw an explosive drive from the top of the key for a dunk. Think about how many times Roy stood in that same spot. Now think how many times he blew by his defender and dunked. Mmmhmm. I say this not to compare the two players as much as to highlight that we have some new options now. 2. Greg Monroe's defense. I don't know how many blocks he actually had, but I know he altered quite a few more. One of my favorite moments was when a jacksonville player was on the break and about to go up for the layup when he saw Greg closing in fast--Greg didn't have to block the shot because the guy got spooked and fumbled the ball away. Only once in the second half when he had 4 fouls was his man able to get a balanced, confident shot off aginst him. He generally appeared to be in the right position defensively and was able to guard his man even well beyond the perimeter without bumping him and picking up fouls. 3. Chris Wright's speed and aggressiveness. While it would have been even better if he had made his free throws, Chris was able to penetrate easily on a number of occasions and score or get fouled. I'm glad to have that quickness at point, and I'm even more glad to see that aggression--again, another option--not sure why I didn't see it again in the second half. 4. Dribbling against the press. We have the speed this year to skip all the long methodical cross-court passes we've relied on to beat the press. Teams pressed us in the past not so much to force turnovers as to leave us with less time to run our offense--we should have a few more seconds on each possession this year.
THINGS THAT NEED TO IMPROVE 1. Inbound/outlet passing. Almost to a man I thought we made difficult, lazy, and/or careless inbound and outlet passes. Jacksonville was only able to steal a few of them, but I think everyone in the Big East is capable of picking them off and hammering home a dunk if we're not better about this. 2. Henry Sims. We absolutely will need depth in the post, and in the few minutes Henry was out there he stood in the corner, fired an ill-advised 3, and generally didn't seem to be doing anything productive. Even if he's not scoring, I want to see him setting screens, etc. 3. The three sugar-buzzed children behind me whose parents seemed to have no problem with them screaming nonsense syllables for the entire first half (imagine an excited, 7-year old Jabba the Hutt...) and then screaming "Shoot the pill!" several times each posession, no matter who had the ball, for the entire second half. Finally one of them asked another what the hell "shoot the pill" means. The response? "I dunno, I heard it at a hockey game once." I've heard stuff at a hockey game I'd like to scream at them, but they're kids, so I showed restraint. But if they're there all season I'm selling my tickets and buying ones somewhere else.
THINGS I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT 1. Perimeter shooting. First game, new 3-pt line, young team. I'm willing to chalk it up to nerves. We know Austin shoots better, for one. 2. Omar and Nikita. Omar will be fine. It looks like his role may be a sort of hybrid between PEJr and Rivers--on-ball defender, energy guy, any offense is gravy. I noticed Omar took Patrick's place as designated elaborate handshake/chest bump/dance move guy during the starting lineups, for what it's worth. Nikita looked awful but I don't think he's going to get that many minutes, and again, it's his first game ever.
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Nov 18, 2008 12:05:32 GMT -5
I don't think anyone else has pointed out yet that Henry Sims and Julian Vaughn are 6'9 and 6'8" at best, though Vaughn has really long arms. I don't know what we'll do against UCONN, but on the other hand I think we might be better off against Nova and Pitt than last year. Henry is actually taller than Monroe, even though someone apparently felt the need to flip their heights. Vaughn is more of a PF though, because he doesn't make up for his height with lots of bulk or leaping ability. Still, for most of the schedule he can play C. One thing I am worried about is a defensive presence when Monroe is out - I thought there was a noticeable dropoff, as Monroe is our only real shotblocking threat. Sims could help there as he gets a little more comfortable. Tonight on offense he basically floated around like a SF. I'm not too high on Omar (luckily hoyalawyer is enthusiastic enough for both of us) but as long as he can hit threes he is serviceable for a few minutes a game. He doesn't have a handle and isn't a great passer, but he plays OK D and is generally a good shooter. I'll count the dumb mistakes (inbounds turnover followed by blocking foul) as jitters. Basically, once we start bringing in subs we can either go three guard (Clark coming in for a F/C), big (Sims or Vaughn coming in for one of the guards or Freeman) or have Wattad/Nikita come in for Freeman/Summers. So far, big seems to be losing out - for one game, at least. My seats are about 30 feet from the Hoyas bench. Maybe I'm an old man but Monroe definitely looked taller (probably around 6'10" if Summers is 6'8" as I believe). But if you've seen them next to each other from a closer distance, I'll happily stand corrected.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Nov 18, 2008 12:31:16 GMT -5
Good point on Sims. I think he is lost on O which contributed to his limited minutes. Regardless of his lack of bulk, we are going to need him this year. It seemed like tons of bench players got minutes but when you look at the box score, it really wasn't too many minutes.
I think Vaughan's minutes & Sims have to go up. I think I would rather see clark in before Omar and I do think by Big East time, Omar & Nikita's minutes are going to get squeezed. We had some four guard line-ups out there last night which is fine early on, but against bigger opponents that won't play. The Old Spice is going to be very tough as the third game of the year. Watch out for Drexel.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Nov 18, 2008 13:02:01 GMT -5
i ...do...that DO think this game was in doubt like with a few minutes a four point game and they was hustling needed jesse and dajuan to step up and they did and do thinkg austin turned and ankle twice hope hes ok and lastly we don t have depth we go down after the first six and need all to score and nobody to get hurt and then the youngins willl be coming monroe is alreay great already yup hes the truth or the answer or good and plenty of skills and talent and AINT LAZY and is a great defener cant believe that they had him for only seven rebbies and three blocked shots where is aus scorekeeper when we need him the guy who got kermit washington or whatever his name was to do the double double thing and lead the country NEED THAT SCOREKEEPER go hoyas
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Post by Fan Of The Game on Nov 18, 2008 13:14:19 GMT -5
Our outside shooting was horrendous...but assuming we'll see some improvement there I think we'll be in good shape this year. Monroe is a beast.
Favorite moment of the night: when the Georgetown fan in the third row was yelling at the ref and his rant got picked up by a mic somehow and broadcast into the arena. Good times.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Nov 18, 2008 13:33:07 GMT -5
Thoughts from a fan who didn't see the game--but likes a few things he's read and looked at stat-wise:
1. The team is young--and playing in a real game for first time--but stuck together and got the job done down the stretch.
2. Georgetown has 2 players who have been in big games for years--Jessie and DaJuan. They both stepped up when needed--and Sapp took leadership of team--which always is important for young team--having strong upperclassmen to lead them through game.
3. Poor shooting/rebounding night--still see 71 pts put up. Imagine when team shoots better and gets more possessions.
4. 33 FT ATTEMPTS--on a poor shooting night---If Hoyas can get to FT line--score 71 pts when they are shooting poorly--imagine getting to FT line when they are shooting well. More driving from players and flexibility of Monroe's game will help a lot in getting to FT line.
5. Wattad playing. I like Omar playing--and what I've seen of his stroke--he'll hit shots. Every team needs an ENERGY guy and physical player--and it doesn't always have to be down low--Omar is going to be needed with this team-and hope he relaxes and realizes minutes will be there--especially if he hits some shots--which he should once he understand his role will be legit. Minutes from a 6'5 bench player are important this year--defensively (think Nova, Marquette, Cuse, etc...) and realizing we're a smaller team. Don't be too harsh on him--it's his first real game time.
Henry Sims will be fine--he isn't as polished as Greg Monroe--but he's going to be a fantastic player--and will likely show the most growth of FR--because of criticism he'll receive early and adjustment needed by playing with other bigs and against more physical competition. By January--he'll be vastly improved--and by March--he should be comfortable. Don't be shocked by jumpshot attempts--he's going to take them and be encouraged to take them-albeit more from top of key and baseline--where he's got a smooth stroke.
Vaughn needs to be a banger on this team--he's got a year under his belt and we need to see him use his frame/experience more down low--with long arms. He too-is a "FR" in system--so despite year--he'll come around as team grows.
It's a YOUNG team, but a TALENTED young team--and talented kids have a quicker learning rate--because some aspects of the game can be made up by a player being gifted enough to succeed while still not knowing what to do. It's going to be a fun year--but let's just focus on the team and not too much talk of "seeding" etc.....because that type of talk/focus isn't important until a team proves it's going to be able to get there.
Just excited to see Greg Monroe in a Hoya uniform--as he's the ideal big for this offense and I'm confident that we're going to see the most exciting team in terms of offensive versatility that III has had due to his special talent as a big who can pass/face/drive/shoot. III already sees it--and he'll make game so much easier for teammates--as will Wright with his penetration ability.
1 win under the belt and back to work--but great to have season underway.
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Post by chrismchaines on Nov 18, 2008 13:40:20 GMT -5
I'm not sure about the first half, but from my seats (104 behind Hoya basket for 2nd half) the Austin injury looked like a charlie horse or some kind of cramp in his calf muscle. It was really bulging. But, I didn't have a full view of the play (the guy in front of me was about 6'6") so I only saw the aftermath.
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Post by atlasfrysmith on Nov 18, 2008 13:56:19 GMT -5
Definitely a cramp. After he came down after being fouled on a layup (I think) he was walking on the toe of his left foot--this would make sense because as the calf cramps up it would raise his heel. Also the enormous knot in his calf I could see from about 20 rows up.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Nov 18, 2008 14:53:36 GMT -5
Some notes from following the game on the computer:
Positives:
1. Greg Monroe had an outstanding debut. I'm very much looking forward to watching him on TV next week.
2. Chris Wright, in all respects other than his free throw shooting, but that's an issue that III has to take seriously (and I'm sure he is). We need Wright to shoot at least 70%.
3. Solid performance in the second half by Sapp.
Negatives:
1. Jacksonville had 20 offensive rebounds.
2. Terrible 3 point shooting by everyone not named Chris Wright. I don't anticipate that this will be a regular occurrence.
3. Jacksonville had 20 offensive rebounds.
4. Freeman couldn't throw a pea in the ocean. See 2 above.
5. Jacksonville had 20 offensive rebounds.
6. Vaughn had one rebound in 11 minutes. We need better from him in that area.
7. Sims played only two minutes. I hope RDF is correct about his development curve, but this certainly tells me that we can't expect much from him next week at the Old Spice. I certainly expected him to get 10-15 minutes, and I hope he will be ready for that by January, as the team will need it.
8. And finally, Jacksonville had 20 offensive rebounds.
Needless to say, I'm concerned about the rebounding. Capcenterhoya made a very interesting point above, and I hope adjustments will result in our doing better in this area. Jacksonville shot barely over 30%, but was able to stay close due to repeated second and third opportunities. Jacksonville may be a pretty good team, but I expect that there are a large number of Big East teams that are more physical than they are. If we end up getting manhandled on the boards regularly in conference games, it will be a long season.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Nov 18, 2008 15:07:17 GMT -5
As someone who didn't see the game I have question in regards to rebounding. Last year we missed a lot of rebounds because we were getting out physicaled and out hustled. Was that the case this year, or are we just out of position? If we are just out of position because of defensive rotations than that is to be expected somewhat with our young frontcourt. No we shouldn't be giving up THAT many offensive rebounds, no matter the excuse, but it would explain some of them. Also in a somewhat positive comparison to last year with rebounding we atleast seemed to be able to grab most of the rebounds off of missed foul shots against them, where as last year it seemed every time the other team would miss a free throw they would always end up with the rebound. Its not much, but atleast it is something.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 18, 2008 15:16:13 GMT -5
Good first game against a quality, experienced opponent. Jacksonville is not your typical St. Leo cupcake of my time there. Drexel will be another tough challenge for a young Hoya team. That said, both games are the perfect preparation for the Old Spice.
Rebounding was awful and will need to be closely looked at before the BE. I was hoping this recurring problem would have been less severe this year. I just hope it was first-game nerves.
FT was O.K., but Wright needs to get to at least 70% to be one of the best BE PG/G.
Nice to see Wattad getting minutes. Not nice to see him miss wide open, and I mean wide open, 3s. One time he looked surprised to find himself so open. If he can nail one or two, the defense will need to be on top of him. Otherwise, good game for him...
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Nov 18, 2008 15:24:02 GMT -5
As someone who didn't see the game I have question in regards to rebounding. Last year we missed a lot of rebounds because we were getting out physicaled and out hustled. Was that the case this year, or are we just out of position? If we are just out of position because of defensive rotations than that is to be expected somewhat with our young frontcourt. No we shouldn't be giving up THAT many offensive rebounds, no matter the excuse, but it would explain some of them. Also in a somewhat positive comparison to last year with rebounding we atleast seemed to be able to grab most of the rebounds off of missed foul shots against them, where as last year it seemed every time the other team would miss a free throw they would always end up with the rebound. Its not much, but atleast it is something. We ALWAYS get outrebounded. We got outrebounded last year when we had the Human Trivia Answer Roy Hibbert and Patrick Ewing jumping around everywhere. Part of that is because we're usually very efficient with the ball, but part of it is that the players are designed to play defense rather than rebound. Georgetown has essentially ceded many offensive rebounds to the other team. Given how punishing the defense can be, I'm willing to take it. EDIT - Above, that's the royal "we". I, personally, am under six feet and provide very little in the way of offensive versatility. Plus, my eligibility's up.
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joey0403p
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Post by joey0403p on Nov 18, 2008 16:07:03 GMT -5
I had a similar thought re: chemistry. I didn't notice any issues with sap / wright persay but I did get the feeling the team is struggling for an identity. Last year it was the senior's team. Good or bad we kinda won / lost by playing their game. Now it seems like the team is still finding its way. What happens then is if you don't know who your go to guy is going to be ... then who are you going to listen too? Jessie is the senior, Summers the junior - both final 4 guys. But they have been deferring their entire careers here. Yet they are supposed to take over now? THe team just needs to figure out who it looks too in tough times.. is it chris / greg? is it jessie / summers? The other point to make here is... we have a LOT of new players this year. We talk a lot about the kinds of people last years class had - i just hope the professionalism / chemistry can be built with this group.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Nov 18, 2008 16:16:47 GMT -5
I am encouraged by the comments of many. I thought I would hear moaning and groaning about a nine point win. Of course, there are some of us (guilty as charged) who expected a blowout, because of the obvious talent on the team. But the system is hard to learn and it was the first game. I think playing Omar and Nikita before the game was out of reach was okay with me, because you develop players better, when something is on the line, and I hope that pays off down the line - they didn't get just garbage time. And this was the first outing for Nikita, so, I guess, we should reserve judgment on him until he gets a few games under his belt.
I enjoyed reading the comments, especially capcenter about the change in offense by J'ville in the second half. Good to hear that Greg played so well.
How much did the longer 3 pt line affect the shooting?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Nov 18, 2008 16:28:44 GMT -5
I had a similar thought re: chemistry. I didn't notice any issues with sap / wright persay but I did get the feeling the team is struggling for an identity. Last year it was the senior's team. Good or bad we kinda won / lost by playing their game. Now it seems like the team is still finding its way. What happens then is if you don't know who your go to guy is going to be ... then who are you going to listen too? Jessie is the senior, Summers the junior - both final 4 guys. But they have been deferring their entire careers here. Yet they are supposed to take over now? THe team just needs to figure out who it looks too in tough times.. is it chris / greg? is it jessie / summers? The other point to make here is... we have a LOT of new players this year. We talk a lot about the kinds of people last years class had - i just hope the professionalism / chemistry can be built with this group. I think Sapp is plenty experienced at taking over when he needs to take over. I think he was more than happy last night to step back and let the youngsters find their legs. But I have no worries that in a tight game, that Jessie will have any hesitancy about wanting the ball in his hands. Dajuan? Well, that is a big progress point for him this year. Can he step up and be a leader of the team? I think he did fine in his minutes on the floor (and am VERY glad he wasn't settling for outside shots, for the most part), but those minutes were pretty limited due to foul trouble. From all of the pre-season talk, this group seems to have no chemistry problems. It will take a while before they are a cohesive unit on the floor, but I don't think we should read anything into it other than it takes a while to become a cohesive unit on the floor.
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Post by chrismchaines on Nov 18, 2008 16:44:59 GMT -5
I like the positive outlook on chemistry. Ultimately, I feel the same way. I loved the understated game that Jessie played last night. Good chemistry building blocks.
As for the rebounding, as far as I noticed, the rebounding last night looked half positioning and half poor communication. More than once, two Hoyas grabbed the ball only to see it then slip away and have J'Ville come up with it. I wouldn't say that we were outhustled on the boards, just out of position a little too often.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Nov 18, 2008 18:03:34 GMT -5
Beating Jacksonville 71-62? Well, losing most of a 16 point lead, feeling the pressure, and managing to pull out the game in the end is a better learning experience for this new team than simply cruising to a double digit victory.
Though I was not able to see the game, it sounds like Greg Monroe is the real deal.. or should I say, the Real Doctrine! And Chris Wright is living up to they hype as well.
It will take some time for this team to get comfortable with another and JT3's system, but man oh man... the potential for a awesome team is right there.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Nov 18, 2008 18:10:59 GMT -5
Being late to the party I don't have much to add, other than that Monroe was awesome (as many have pointed out), Wright brings an inside game we haven't seen in a decade (other than flashes from D. Hunter back in the day), it would have been sweet if Sims' first points in Blue and Gray were from 3, and it was kinda surprising but kinda welcome to see so many guys get run early.
And WHAT A PLEASURE for the season to be here again!
Finally, HUGE PROPS to the student sections, who were in mid-season form already!!
Hasta la sabado...
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