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Post by williambraskyiii on Nov 17, 2008 22:42:58 GMT -5
i guess i have no problem playing the scrubs early and often in the games against cupcakes EXCEPT in situations where you have only a matter of days before you are facing top-flight talent in an early season tournament!
Something tells me that Tennessee and Mich State aren't going to be so small on their frontline - i don't have a problem getting outrebounded - i just hope our guys play fundamentally sound and limit second and third chances for opponents -
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ceb8
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by ceb8 on Nov 17, 2008 22:46:02 GMT -5
I was actually really happy with a lot of what I saw: broke the press, played some nice D at points, Monroe looks solid, and I think Clark will fill in nicely. Austin had a rough night, but it happens. my biggest negative: NIKITA--SEND HIM HOME. In 30 seconds, he had a carry, a turnover, and a foul. That was when we were up by 15 or so. Immediately, they went on a run. Omar also wasn't anything to write home about, but he did play a Rivers-style defense that I think might come in handy sometimes (See Syracuse at home last year). I didn't see the game, so I may be off here, but lets not throw Nikita to the wolves so fast. I used to go nuts when EwingJr started getting minutes at Georgetown and he would do the same. I specifically remember him turning it over then trying to make up for it with a steal then cause a 3pt play. And what a turnaround he made. Though, he did have genetics on his side. Also, I would like to see more than 7 offensive rebounds.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Nov 17, 2008 22:47:36 GMT -5
A couple rambling thoughts on the game....despite apparently getting most of the FG attempts from three I didn't leave the booth feeling like that was the case. I was actually impressed that we didn't settle for threes and we were attacking the basket (alot more than we did last season) I think that they were definitely good shots (for the most part...Austin's shot early on in the first comes to mind as the one time I said to myself "bad shot")
In terms of Dajaun's first half...he was mostly slowed by two early fouls (too aggressive on D as he sometimes does) and never saw much PT the rest of the half. I was pleased to see him not just sit around the three point line and jack up threes but actually aggressively take the ball to the basket. You see the NBA potential there I think that the criticism of him someone made earlier in this game is unwarranted.
Monroe....any doubts anyone had about this kid should be completely dispelled. The kid is a stud...the total package...great blocks great poise..definitely didn't play like a freshman. The comments that he is perfect for our offense is completely on point...his ability to drive the lane from the top of the key is going to be so dangerous
I definitely agree with the Omar and Nikita thing not working today. Anyone else shocked when Omar was the first off the bench today? Hopefully this changes as the season goes on but I see their minutes significantly declining if this keeps up...didn't really see much upside from either of them today.
Definitely wish we saw more of Henry. You can see his athletic ability from the very limited time he had and has the confidence to take the deep shot.
Liked what i saw from Vaughn and Clark going to be great contributors off the bench.
Hopefully Austin isn't too hurt...looked like he rolled his ankle? I'll give him a pass on this game
Overall...typical first game, a wins a win...some positives...definitely alot to work and build on as always but on to Drexel...Hoya Saxa
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Post by justabballfan on Nov 17, 2008 22:48:54 GMT -5
I can not see Omar getting minutes over Jason Clark after tonight. There were some stretches in the first half where Omar was in the game, when I thought Clark should have been in. In the second half down the stretch Clark got all the minutes.
I think once JTIII gets his rotation set, you are only going to see Clark and Vaughn getting extended minutes off the bench.
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Post by arlingtonhoya05 on Nov 17, 2008 23:00:07 GMT -5
Only the first game, no reason to panic. We didn't look good against WM last year. That being said, our rebounding is dreadful, as it was last season . Our guys HAVE to be get more aggressive, especially when we start playing some physical teams. Clark is going to be special, he can d like rivers, and isn't worthless on the offensive end(as rivers was). Omar needs to lose minutes. If we continue to give him mins like that against Big East teams, we're going to have some problems. On the positive end of things, Greg is going to be a stud. Clark is going to be great, and Chris, minus the ft shooting, is going to be a great point guard.
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by vcjack on Nov 17, 2008 23:08:23 GMT -5
It seemed like the rebound problems had much more to do with having Greg/Julian rotate over on help defense when there was guard penetration into the lane, leaving an open man to clean up the board. When we actually went up for rebounds we almost always won them. This seems to be a more fundamentally sound rebounding team already than last season.
Oh and just like to say again, Monroe is a beast. Sooooooooo goooooooood
And here's something that didn't dawn on me until the very end, we shot terribly but still got 71 points. The past couple of seasons 71 points would have been on the high end of our wins, but I have a feeling this season it will be on the low end.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Nov 17, 2008 23:10:52 GMT -5
Hopefully Austin isn't too hurt...looked like he rolled his ankle? I'll give him a pass on this game If you are referring to his drive late in the good where he got fouled and went to the line, I think it was actually a calf cramp, rather than a rolled ankle. They were showing it on MASN.
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jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,380
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Post by jgalt on Nov 17, 2008 23:12:34 GMT -5
Ill only add two things because i agree with everything else pretty much
Why play small line ups? There were never three forward out there (Freeman doesnt count) and sims didnt see the court but for a minute. Jacksonville is small and monroe and dajaun were having their way inside (until the refs started calling the came real close). No reason to play small ball when you have big dudes!
On rebounding- Jacksonville is a small team and they know it. They are also experienced. they have had a lot of time to work out how to rebound and guard bigger teams effectively. They clogged up the passing lanes and didnt allow an effective fast break (which these hoyas didnt look ready for anyway).
Overall, the Hoyas were trying too hard and at times playing too cute. they made a few nice plays to open and didnt seem to adjust to jacksonville's adjustments until well through the second half. im not upset by this, it is too be expected. I never thought jville would be "cupcake" they are a solid low major team that could give a good team a run for its money even later in the season if their threes start falling. However, next week, drexel is a cupcake team. If the hoyas cant show some streaks of awesomeness and dominance on saturday id start to be concerned about the old spice.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Nov 17, 2008 23:15:24 GMT -5
1) We still need to work on rebounding but it should be said that Jacksonville is a great rebounding and offensive rebounding team.
2) Omar. Was surprised when he was the second off the bench. His shot wasn't falling but he played well otherwise. he must have showed coach something in practice to get playing time.
3) Did well against the press. Didn't bother us at all we only turned it over once against the press that i can remember.
4) Did a good job fast breaking for the most part. we screwed up a couple times but we did better than in the past.
5) my main qualm was defense. There were tons of missed assignments/slow rotations. we need to work on this. Some aspects of our D were good. We were a little too agressive at times going for steals but we had a lot of good blocks.
6) seemed like coach was still working things out. Wish that sims had gotten more time.
7) Austin had an off day shooting but was a beast on the boards. Hopefully he's all right. If austin gets into double digits we also win by double digits and it would have been fine. Nice even scoring distribution tonight.
8) Shots weren't falling and we took too many threes considering but for the most part they weren't bad shots they were open just didn't fall.
9) liked what I saw from vaughn.
10) the jacksonville coach was physically on the court almost the entire game and the refs did nothing. He'd crouch down and be inbounds at one point austin was inches from him while hitting a three. It was ridiculous.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 17, 2008 23:24:01 GMT -5
A quote from the coach that probably addresses PT (from the AP wire story):
"It's the first game, and we played most of the game with freshmen and sophomores," Thompson said. "We have to grow. We have to learn."
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jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by jgalt on Nov 17, 2008 23:25:38 GMT -5
Dajuan finished his dunks.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Nov 17, 2008 23:27:57 GMT -5
Most important stat of the night: Dajuan Summers....2 for 2 on dunks! ;D [EDIT: DAMN!! John Galt beat me to it!!! ] Definitely a cramp for Freeman. Just watched it again on MASN & his calf muscle was seized up like a m-----f-----. Not a good game for Freeman. He'll have many much better games (like...all of them). Jessie Sapp.....beautiful fake down the lane. Thought we'd see more Sims though. He barely got any run.
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by vcjack on Nov 17, 2008 23:31:46 GMT -5
A quote from the coach that probably addresses PT (from the AP wire story): "It's the first game, and we played most of the game with freshmen and sophomores," Thompson said. "We have to grow. We have to learn." Thought as much, if Omar and Nikita are ever going to be productive players, might as well play them now. Especially when Austin has the worst game of his career and we have a wing of Omar's size.
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Post by hoyalawyer on Nov 17, 2008 23:35:54 GMT -5
All the immediate criticism of our own players, based on the first game of the season, some of the guys FIRST TIME on a college court (including omar b/c he never totalled over 9 minutes last season) is a little premature.
NOTE this entire summer I told people on this board that Wattad was a ball player, insofar as he does more that just shoot (clearly today that was not his strong point).
I also told people that Wattad would play more than Nikita initially b/c (unfortunately as of yet) UNLIKE nikita, Omar contributes in other ways. (defense, and NOT TURNING OVER THE BALL).
Is anyone really THAT surprised that Omar (whose practiced for a YEAR more IN THIS SYSTEM than Jason, Henry, or Julian, who played within this system last year (as opposed to Nikita who did not play although he practiced), and who also gained 30 pounds from his freshman to sophomore year (last year Omar was listed at 185 this year he is listed at 225) was the first off the bench? It seems to me that he is just as experienced, if not more so, than ANY of the other players I mentioned.
I realize how much people criticized Rivers last year but Omar (on his better shooting days) will provide this team with hustle, energy, DEFENSE, AND a shot. (not everyone is Chris Wright or Greg Monroe, and guys like Omar make the team GLUE (like pat last year and by no means am i comparing Omar's game to pats, except for the willing-to-do-the-garbage-stuff-to-get-the-win type of attitude)).
It's clear that this team will be carried by the STARTERS, and the bench will HAVE TO LEARN TO CONTRIBUTE QUICKLY.
Will Omar continue to be the first off the bench? probably not, but it was obvious JTIII was tinkering, experimenting, and seeing what he can get out of guys. (again Game time is different than Kenner, and a great deal of playing time is determined from what happens DAY TO DAY in practice).
Should we have beaten this team by more? Yes Was the win ever in SERIOUS JEOPARDY? No, otherwise there wouldn't be so much tinkering.
All in all this is a WIN. be happy. We got to see a few more guys get out there (and we didn't get to see some as much as we'd like, i.e. personally I LOVE Sims' game but there may be something to "the system" that limits a 6'10" guy with limited ball skills from getting into the rotation RIGHT AWAY.)
Time will remedy the flaws and REST ASSURED, JTIII will have the best lineup on the floor when it really matter.
-Lawyer Let the $hit storm begin . . .
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WVHoyasfan
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GREATEST HOYA EVER!!!!!
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Post by WVHoyasfan on Nov 17, 2008 23:38:36 GMT -5
Hey fellow Hoyas fans im glad to be back talking Hoyas basketball with you all.I hav'nt been on here in a while and was very surprised to see just how young we are this year.We will most difently take some beating this year in order for us to grow as a team.The team looked very slugish at times were it was the first game and were they are so young.I thought our players ran the offense pretty good for it to be the first game but they still have a long ways to go.
Every player need to find what their role is on this team for them to have a decent season this year.I don't look for us to do much this year were the BE is so tough and we are so young.I liked how Wright lead the offense tonight he looks like he will be a good one if he stays healthy.Freeman will find his shooting touch so theres nothing to worry about him.Monroe all I can say about him is WOW!! I was really impressed by his play on both sides of the floor.I really think Dajaun and Sapp are the two guys that has to step up and be leaders for this team.I was really wanting to see Dajaun get the ball more at the end b/c I think he can be our go to guy at the end of a game or when its close.
Overall I see alot of talent on this years team.They probably won't make alot of noise this year in the BE but I garenntee they will play decent enough to were other teams will look at them and say damn we will have to watch out for this team in the very near future.Im hoping they make a surprise run this year in the BE.You never know we will just have to wait and see.GO HOYAS!!!!!!!
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Nov 18, 2008 0:12:10 GMT -5
I realize it's the first game of the season, but I'm waiting with baited breath for the eFG% and other efficiency stats from the Hoya Prospectus crew. Seems to me the Hoyas were well below last year's average efficiency tonight.
Other than that, some good signs in the first contest. We forced turnovers and got good games from the guys expected to contribute.
Sounds as if Monroe will easily average a double-double by season's end. When can I get my #10 jersey?
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Post by Hoya TMF on Nov 18, 2008 0:19:05 GMT -5
i agree on omar. he played great defense and was aggressive on the boards. his shot was not falling, but the same can be said for most everyone else on the team (at least from three). omar kind of struck me as a chucker last year, but he was wide open a lot of times.
as several have said ... chris wright is the real deal. he led the teams in assists, attacked the basket and got to the hoop at will. his stats are misleading ... if he makes his free throws and some guys hit open shots chris has 19 points and seven assists easy. his game was great as it is, but he got to the basket often, and his penetration created open looks for everyone else.
greg was great as well. he attacked the glass, was aggressive on defense and showed an array of skills on the offensive end. i was hoping we'd see the mid range game, but he didn't use it or really need it tonight.
austin will obviously play better than he did today, but i was glad he remianed aggressive even though his shot wasn't falling. sapp and summers were happy to let others take the lead for most of the game, but definitely stepped up when it got tight late. that is exactly what you want from you upperclassmen.
i assume nikita didn't play because he stopped playing defense in the few minutes he was on the floor. if so, i agree completely. i think nikita can be a controbutor, but if he's not gonna d-up, then he doesn't deserve minutes.
i'm not sure what everyone else saw when henry played, but he was absolutely lost. he had no idea where he was supposed to be on offense, and didn't really seem to active on defense. i'm glad he sat out that game. it was odd, but he literally looked like a deer in headlights when he was out there.
vaughn will definitely give us more than makclin did last year, and that seems fine. he was active on both sides of the ball.
overall, i think it was a great test, and will allow us from getting to high on ourselves; exactly what you want in a first game. this team is going tob e really good by the end of the year; it is really balanced, and each of our five starters can hurt you. it should be a fun season.
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GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Nov 18, 2008 0:20:59 GMT -5
Wow was it a bad day to be about 6'5 and shooting jumpers.
Wattad and Freeman were just terrible shooting the basketball. I don't think we can expect that every night.
Other than that, it was about as planned. Never trailed, not so quick on the decision-making on offense, etc. etc. Better defense than I expected and fewer turnovers but overall nothing shocking.
The new three-point line takes a little gettin' used to apparently. No big deal.
The only expected thing that's a problem: Chris "2-3 from 2, 3-5 from 3, 3-8 from ONE" Wright. 16-5-4 on 63% shooting and he can't hit a free throw. It's so weird. Someone can fix this, right?
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Nov 18, 2008 0:42:46 GMT -5
IMO we could stand to dial it down a notch on Nikita/Omar. Remember that Omar never got any meaningful minutes last year and Nikita has never stepped on the court at all, so in terms of NCAA game experience this is really their first go-round. Yea, they've got a year's worth of practice but that doesn't change the fact that they've got no real burn in an NBA arena, under the bright lights, with the students and the crowd and everything. It takes some people a little time to adjust to that. If these guys were listed as freshman, everybody'd take it easy on them. Or, if they were recruits with a lot of hype, everybody'd be giving them a pass. But because they don't have a lot of hype surrounding them everybody's screaming to give them the hook, even though they've got little to no real experience in that environment. I tend to think that they must've shown JTIII a little something in the preseason to earn their PT. And yes, traditionally III defers to guys who know the offense early in the year (Crawford, Egerson for example) before shifting minutes toward the freshman as the season goes on and they adapt to the level of play. I do expect that you'll see that happen this year as well. But everybody seems so frustrated to see it this year... Let's let them play a little bit before we relegate guys to the bench for the balance of the year. III will adjust the rotation as the year goes on, he always does. I wasn't in the building, but the game never felt really "dangerous" at any point, so I don't have any problem with trying out some lineups.
I PROMISE, I won't be the guy who mentions it after every game this year, but just a reminder, as I was saying to everyone this summer, don't get your hopes up that Greg Monroe is going to be here for long. 6'11 and athletic with skills is VERY rare, not to mention he's young for his grade, got a solid build... he's got just about everything scouts look for, the only thing left is for him to show competence on the floor, and I don't think he needs to put up dominant numbers (especially given our system, ex. Jeff Green) just solid ones. Anyway, it's something I'm sure we'll talk about a million times later in the season and after the season, suffice to say for now that dude is a baller and I'm cised to have him in blue and gray.
Overall, satisfactory first outing based on the radio/video I had. Pretty much exactly what we've come to expect in the first game of the year from JTIII's teams... not a blowout, but not really dangerous either. Saw some good things from Wright and Monroe, so if we can get running on all cylinders with DaJuan and Free playing at their best, we'll be solid.
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Z
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Post by Z on Nov 18, 2008 1:08:51 GMT -5
RB that is a great point - i hadnt thought about it before but JTIII does like giving run toguys more familiar with the system early in the year as the more talented young guys get integrated. but its going to be hard to keep clark and sims off the court come BE season.
win or lose, this is going to be a fun team to watch and it will also be fun to see the next generation of hoyas come into their own. monroe looks like a complete player despite all the offseason hand wringing about his disinterested playing style and i cant wait to see him and wright put their stamp on this team as they take the reins - i think sapp and summers are both more comfortable and effective when they arent being asked to be "the man." i still think the obvious missing link is a blair/dorsey type low post banger - lacking a player like that will continue to hurt us on both ends of the court.
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