Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 10, 2008 9:40:41 GMT -5
Actually, the original post here was about polling data...... ....but what the hell. This argument assumes that all we are going to do is drill. If that was, in fact, John McCain's energy plan, I would oppose it. But if you think drilling is not an important component of ANY energy plan we may move forward on then you are about as realistic as Al Gore. I realize some may take that as a compliment. You can rest assured, it is not meant as one. Yeah, we're not the best when it comes to staying on topic. "Let's talk about polling data....and drilling....and abortion!"
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 10, 2008 9:44:23 GMT -5
But if you think drilling is not an important component of ANY energy plan we may move forward on then you are about as realistic as Al Gore. I realize some may take that as a compliment. You can rest assured, it is not meant as one. Then show us some numbers contrasting the forecasted depletion in Ghawar, Cantarell, and North Sea with the drilling you are suggesting. This is not an Al Gore argument, it's a Matthew Simmons/T. Boone Pickens argument. Using less oil is the real goal for a laundry list of reasons, not reducing dependence on foreign oil.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Sept 10, 2008 9:55:40 GMT -5
But if you think drilling is not an important component of ANY energy plan we may move forward on then you are about as realistic as Al Gore. I realize some may take that as a compliment. You can rest assured, it is not meant as one. Then show us some numbers contrasting the forecasted depletion in Ghawar, Cantarell, and North Sea with the drilling you are suggesting. This is not an Al Gore argument, it's a Matthew Simmons/T. Boone Pickens argument. Using less oil is the real goal for a laundry list of reasons, not reducing dependence on foreign oil. I think the idea behind drilling America's oil is twofold: 1) It helps stabilize prices by increasing supply. 2) The cash from the leases will help pay for building the alternative energy sources And T. Boone Pickens agrees that America should drill. He also owns a heck of a lot of land in West Texas that would be prime for windmill farms if only the Federal Gov't would subsidize the energy transmission corridors.
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 10, 2008 11:15:22 GMT -5
And T. Boone Pickens agrees that America should drill. He also owns a heck of a lot of land in West Texas that would be prime for windmill farms if only the Federal Gov't would subsidize the energy transmission corridors. Nowhere in Pickens' plan does it say *anything* about drilling more, and he says we can't drill our way out of the problem. Drilling is cute but inconsequential. This is the guy who swiftboated Kerry, and yet he won't take a side in this election - that's how far off the mark the Republicans are on energy.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Sept 10, 2008 11:22:49 GMT -5
And T. Boone Pickens agrees that America should drill. He also owns a heck of a lot of land in West Texas that would be prime for windmill farms if only the Federal Gov't would subsidize the energy transmission corridors. Nowhere in Pickens' plan does it say *anything* about drilling more, and he says we can't drill our way out of the problem. Drilling is cute but inconsequential. This is the guy who swiftboated Kerry, and yet he won't take a side in this election - that's how far off the mark the Republicans are on energy. www.pickensplan.com/news/2008/08/23/the-third-tv-spot/
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 10, 2008 11:31:29 GMT -5
I stand by what I said. Read the plan, not one word about drilling.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 10, 2008 12:17:21 GMT -5
I stand by what I said. Read the plan, not one word about drilling. I think he's in favor of drilling.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Sept 10, 2008 13:03:54 GMT -5
Bando, a question: if a baby is born alive after a failed abortion, should that baby be cared for and treated like any other baby? Or do you favor killing the baby or "allowing it to die" by not caring for it? Obama chose to favor at least "allowing it to die". Please note this is a baby that is alive outside the womb and I'm not talking about partial-birth abortion where the baby is destroyed while still not fully born. But this never happens, ed! And it is partial birth abortion, that's where these supposedly "born-alive" infants come from. The entire bill was a sloppy attempt to restart the culture wars through the time honored tradition of making Edited up. I'd be disappointed in Obama if he had voted for it. I'm actually not trying to hijack this thread and convert it into another abortion discussion but I did want to say that Bando chose not to answer my question.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 10, 2008 13:06:18 GMT -5
But this never happens, ed! And it is partial birth abortion, that's where these supposedly "born-alive" infants come from. The entire bill was a sloppy attempt to restart the culture wars through the time honored tradition of making Edited up. I'd be disappointed in Obama if he had voted for it. I'm actually not trying to hijack this thread and convert it into another abortion discussion but I did want to say that Bando chose not to answer my question. Because your question is based of a series of events that are not true and never occur. I might as well ask you what you would do if the pink elephants convert to Islam and wage jihad against the Mexicans.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 10, 2008 13:08:00 GMT -5
This is silly. Basically EVERYONE is in favor of drilling. The questions are where and how much? There are concerns drilling in the gulf because of the fear of lost toruism revenues to the Gulf states as well as a potential threat from a hurricane. Technology has imporved dramatically. While still a concern, history has shown us that properly designed off shore oil rigs are very resistant to damage from hurricanes, especially any sort of catastrophic damage.
As for drilling in ANWR, the question becomes one of disrupting the native hapitat of certain creatures. Personally, I think that technology has progressed to the point where we should be able to build effective and efficient wells, without major damage to the environment.
One area that I am not fully certain on, concerns lands that has already been allocated to oil complanies for drilling but which aren't being used. I think it is a very reasonable position to take that "before we give you more land for oil development, you need to make better use of what we have already given you." If the threat is over pumping, then the solution is more wells in a larger area. But if the problem is that it isn't practical to build more wells in such proximity to each other, then we might need some more land allocated. I just don't know the factas enough on that particular issue.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Sept 10, 2008 13:10:47 GMT -5
I'm actually not trying to hijack this thread and convert it into another abortion discussion but I did want to say that Bando chose not to answer my question. Because your question is based of a series of events that are not true and never occur. I might as well ask you what you would do if the pink elephants convert to Islam and wage jihad against the Mexicans. Afraid to answer the question?
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 10, 2008 13:39:18 GMT -5
Because your question is based of a series of events that are not true and never occur. I might as well ask you what you would do if the pink elephants convert to Islam and wage jihad against the Mexicans. Afraid to answer the question? Your equivocation in the face of the Islamopachyderm threat is disturbing and, frankly, un-American.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 10, 2008 14:39:57 GMT -5
You know, Bando, for a Marxist America-hating heathen atheist, you come up with some pretty good lines. ;D ;D Back on topic (if that is even possible at this point): McCain cuts 10 points off of Obama's New Jersey lead: publicmind.fdu.edu/bounce/tab.htmlNo, it's not enough to call Jersey a swing state or anything (.....yet ), but it's a good trend if you're a McCain fan.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Sept 12, 2008 9:00:22 GMT -5
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Sept 14, 2008 9:16:59 GMT -5
From Fox News Sunday. Last week Karl Rove had the electoral map with Obama with 260 electoral votes, there being 84 toss-ups. This week he has McCain at 227, Obama at 215 with 96 toss-ups. During the week he moved Montana, North Dakota and Florida from toss-up to McCain and Washington, Pennsylvania and Michigan from Obama to toss-up. However, he also said if you allocate each toss-up state to the person who has any lead at all, including one point leads, it gives Obama 273 electorals.
Bottom line - the election, as he sees it at this point in time, is up for grabs.
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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 14, 2008 10:09:31 GMT -5
Ah yes, Karl Rove: the face of neutral political commentary.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 14, 2008 10:49:43 GMT -5
So what is it that Rove said that you disagree with?
You can call Karl Rove evil if you want to, but I don't think anything he said this morning is disputed all that much. Some specific numbers might vary here and there, but Obama's collapsing lead is not a construction of Rove; it is real.
Instead of idly dismissing this because he is a Republican strategist (and I don't dispute that he is), Obama supporters would be better advised to actually listen to these numbers from a man who, though you may revile him, probably knows more about Presidential politics than anyone alive today.
The most recent numbers indicate McCain is now ahead in Ohio (though not in every poll), Minnesota is a tie, and Obama's lead is down to THREE in New Jersey. That is not something Karl Rove made up.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Sept 14, 2008 11:19:51 GMT -5
You know, Bando, for a Marxist America-hating heathen atheist, you come up with some pretty good lines. ;D ;D Back on topic (if that is even possible at this point): McCain cuts 10 points off of Obama's New Jersey lead: publicmind.fdu.edu/bounce/tab.htmlNo, it's not enough to call Jersey a swing state or anything (.....yet ), but it's a good trend if you're a McCain fan. Yikes look like I better register Personally I think it's cool that things are so close, that's how it should be right now. Hopefully we get some legit debates and people make informed decisions on issues like the economy, energy, taxes, health care and foreign policy rather than the idiotic drama that's conjured up by both sides to work the media, stuff like "Did Obama call Palin a pig?" or "Did Palin flip flop on the bridge to nowhere?" or "Did Obama study in a madrasah?" These sort of manufactured issues are fun to bicker about on message boards sometimes, but IMO they shouldn't be what decides an election. Hopefully the fact that things are so close sends the message to everyone that their vote matters, and so more people make an informed decision and cast a vote.
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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 14, 2008 11:35:11 GMT -5
You know, Bando, for a Marxist America-hating heathen atheist, you come up with some pretty good lines. ;D ;D Back on topic (if that is even possible at this point): McCain cuts 10 points off of Obama's New Jersey lead: publicmind.fdu.edu/bounce/tab.htmlNo, it's not enough to call Jersey a swing state or anything (.....yet ), but it's a good trend if you're a McCain fan. Yikes look like I better register Personally I think it's cool that things are so close, that's how it should be right now. Hopefully we get some legit debates and people make informed decisions on issues like the economy, energy, taxes, health care and foreign policy rather than the idiotic drama that's conjured up by both sides to work the media, stuff like "Did Obama call Palin a pig?" or "Did Palin flip flop on the bridge to nowhere?" or "Did Obama study in a madrasah?" These sort of manufactured issues are fun to bicker about on message boards sometimes, but IMO they shouldn't be what decides an election. Hopefully the fact that things are so close sends the message to everyone that their vote matters, and so more people make an informed decision and cast a vote. In '04, my NJ absentee ballot never made it to me. I'm legitimately worried about getting one. Also, I agree that it would be awesome if the closeness made people focus more on issues, but I just have far less faith in that. Unfortunately, I think it just means that the crackpots, the ignorant, the racists, the radical tree-huggers, and the over-the-top single-issue voters will carry the day.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Sept 14, 2008 18:26:54 GMT -5
Yikes look like I better register Personally I think it's cool that things are so close, that's how it should be right now. Hopefully we get some legit debates and people make informed decisions on issues like the economy, energy, taxes, health care and foreign policy rather than the idiotic drama that's conjured up by both sides to work the media, stuff like "Did Obama call Palin a pig?" or "Did Palin flip flop on the bridge to nowhere?" or "Did Obama study in a madrasah?" These sort of manufactured issues are fun to bicker about on message boards sometimes, but IMO they shouldn't be what decides an election. Hopefully the fact that things are so close sends the message to everyone that their vote matters, and so more people make an informed decision and cast a vote. In '04, my NJ absentee ballot never made it to me. I'm legitimately worried about getting one. Also, I agree that it would be awesome if the closeness made people focus more on issues, but I just have far less faith in that. Unfortunately, I think it just means that the crackpots, the ignorant, the racists, the radical tree-huggers, and the over-the-top single-issue voters will carry the day. I'm trying to figure out which one or more of these categories you fall in.
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