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Post by HometownHoya on Jan 7, 2008 2:40:56 GMT -5
if roy continues to play as he has thusfar, i wouldnt take him at 18. if he can't man up againt smaller college players, what is he going to do against nba big men? The thing about Roy (or at least last year, not so much this year) he seems to always play better against players closer to his hight. I mean I know that that players in the NBA are not only taller but bigger, but it could help?
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jan 7, 2008 9:03:25 GMT -5
then there was the portland incident: "As they were leaving the practice facility Wednesday, the morning of their final shootaround together, [Bonzi] Wells and [Rasheed] Wallace saw Ruben Boumtje Boumtje shooting jump shots some 100 feet away with his back turned to them. Wallace slapped Wells on the back and said, "Watch this." Then he picked up a ball, reared back and fired a 100-foot, baseball-style strike that left Boumtje Boumtje writhing the floor. Trainers were summoned. After a few scary minutes, Boumtje Boumtje walked off, OK" You're holding that against him? Really?
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jan 7, 2008 9:37:21 GMT -5
I'd take Boumtje-Boumtje's first 12 games of his senior year over Roy's thus far. no way!! roy's bball iq is far superior to RBB due to their coach. additionally, roy carried us several times in the ncaa tourny, while RBB allowed the terps under sized front court to take his manhood in the 2nd half. that and he pulled a fred brown by saying he liked esh more b/c big john yelled too much. you dont air out family business. i lost total respect for him when he did that. then there was the portland incident: "As they were leaving the practice facility Wednesday, the morning of their final shootaround together, [Bonzi] Wells and [Rasheed] Wallace saw Ruben Boumtje Boumtje shooting jump shots some 100 feet away with his back turned to them. Wallace slapped Wells on the back and said, "Watch this." Then he picked up a ball, reared back and fired a 100-foot, baseball-style strike that left Boumtje Boumtje writhing the floor. Trainers were summoned. After a few scary minutes, Boumtje Boumtje walked off, OK" Mr. Sixer... please read what i wrote before you respond. I am only referring to the first "12 games" of the year. I am not talking about Roy's contributuions last year... we all know he played very well in the tourney. That said, at this juncture, Roy may not be even be the best center in our conference let alone the country. Further, if you insist on really looking at last year... i'd argue there were only a few games where he was an actual difference maker, whereas Jeff played a significant role in almost every victory. Take for example the Notre Dame game in the BET. Roy was inconsequential in that game... however in order for us to win, Jeff put the team on his back and scored 30 plus points. I don't see Roy ever playing that type of role on this team. Accordingly, i can't see how anyone can say this is "his" team, anymore than its Dajuan's or Jon's. For the record, I hope he proves me wrong and grabs 15 boards against Thabeet and UCON... that might shut me up for a while. Roy needs a statement game!
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Post by FHillsNYHoya on Jan 7, 2008 10:12:46 GMT -5
Being at the game Saturday, and lucky enough to score a front row seat behind the basket we defended in the first half, I would say that Roy did look like he was dragging, especially compared to everyone else on the floor. Understand it's difficult for a 7'2" man to get up and down the floor, but even in the first half getting back on D relatively early in the game it seemed he was winded.
He obviously contributes in other ways on the floor, but it's hard to argue w/Chad Ford's blurb.
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Post by dajuan on Jan 7, 2008 10:14:39 GMT -5
if roy continues to play as he has thusfar, i wouldnt take him at 18. if he can't man up againt smaller college players, what is he going to do against nba big men? The thing about Roy (or at least last year, not so much this year) he seems to always play better against players closer to his hight. I mean I know that that players in the NBA are not only taller but bigger, but it could help? You're absolutely right. Roy definitely plays better when he's one on one with another big in the post. Oden, Gray, Harangody all fell victim to Roy last season. Roy struggles when a team uses quick, rangy guys to deny him the ball and doubles down when he does get the ball. I do NOT blame Roy for this. When Villanova denied Roy the ball so effectively last year the team needed to get a hold of itself and reverse it or look for a different offensive weapon. When Roy gets double teamed he does a very good job of getting the ball to the open guy. This is what he has to do. He shouldn't be forcing up shots against a double team and if he's denied the ball by a mix of rangy guys, the team has to account for that. When Roy faces NBA grade centers he performs quite well. His draft stock is sure to reflect this.
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Jan 7, 2008 10:50:28 GMT -5
but looking at the 92 i think espn classic game where alonzo and co lost to bc in double ot.. roy needs to watch that and learn from zos aggressive play always moving contcacting his opponents with his body and going over them NEEDS TO BE MEAN AND MORE AGGRESSIVE LEARN FROM ZO YUP go hoyas beat depaul roy be mean.. foul shots and REBOUNDS FREAKING REBOUNDS YUP TO WIN
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Post by dajuan on Jan 7, 2008 10:52:55 GMT -5
but looking at the 92 i think espn classic game where alonzo and co lost to bc in double ot.. roy needs to watch that and learn from zos aggressive play always moving contcacting his opponents with his body and going over them NEEDS TO BE MEAN AND MORE AGGRESSIVE LEARN FROM ZO YUP go hoyas beat depaul roy be mean.. foul shots and REBOUNDS FREAKING REBOUNDS YUP TO WIN But Zo wasn't even a 7 footer, Lic. Why would Roy want to learn from him?
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Jan 7, 2008 11:04:25 GMT -5
your logic errs mr dajaun your logic errs but heck im never ever logical go hoyas beat depaul yup ;D
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Post by Hoya TMF on Jan 7, 2008 11:41:03 GMT -5
i couldn't care less about roy's draft stock right now. i agree with those who have said he performs better against guys his own size; that will help his stock in pre-draft camps and such. the same thing was said by several nba analysts who happened to be discussing aaron grey this year. still, what does that do for us now? not much. tyler hansbrough is not going to be a great pro, but is the best post player in college basketball right now. roy needs to improve significantly if we are going to reach our "potential" this year.
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mrsixer123
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Post by mrsixer123 on Jan 7, 2008 13:08:40 GMT -5
then there was the portland incident: "As they were leaving the practice facility Wednesday, the morning of their final shootaround together, [Bonzi] Wells and [Rasheed] Wallace saw Ruben Boumtje Boumtje shooting jump shots some 100 feet away with his back turned to them. Wallace slapped Wells on the back and said, "Watch this." Then he picked up a ball, reared back and fired a 100-foot, baseball-style strike that left Boumtje Boumtje writhing the floor. Trainers were summoned. After a few scary minutes, Boumtje Boumtje walked off, OK" You're holding that against him? Really? So u would allow a man to hit you in the head with something that could have seriously hurt you without doing anything about it once you got up off the ground?
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Post by HoyaAtHeart on Jan 7, 2008 13:31:02 GMT -5
I'll say it again...from an individualistic point of view...as in what's best for ROY...Roy should have left last year. He will not be a lottery pick in this upcoming draft. He was a lock for it last year. But apparently everyone here believed he would be a lock for the top 5 and maybe even the top overall pick next year. It's not going to turn out that way.
Of course nobody that wanted him to come back for the sake of the team is going to "care" about his stock right now. But the reality is that there are two types of early entrants in the NBA...the super prospects who are going to go high whenever they come out. The other one is the guy who is hot at that moment in time. He's coming off a good season with some eye opening performances that werent expected. Simply put...an overachiever. I'd say Roy fits in the latter...and he should have struck while the iron was hot. In regards to your reference to Tyler Hansborough...the difference between him and Roy is that Hansborough has ALWAYS had that label on him...he's never been looked at as a potential lottery pick. Roy was...which means Roy wouldnt have HAD to go to pre-draft camps. If you hadn't noticed in recent years...Pre-Draft camps are for Late First Rounders and Second Rounders...of which a few MAY work themselves up to the mid First Round.
That said...it's a long season and anything can happen. But thus far...Roy's stock is not as high as it was at the end of last year. Unless he decides to man up and take over similar to what Jeff did in BE place...his stock won't go back up.
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Jan 7, 2008 15:03:31 GMT -5
You're holding that against him? Really? So u would allow a man to hit you in the head with something that could have seriously hurt you without doing anything about it once you got up off the ground? 1) What do you have that substantiates this story? 2) What does this have to do with Roy Hibbert? 3) What does this have to do with anything?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 7, 2008 15:12:15 GMT -5
1) The incident occurred -- it was reported somewhere legitimately.
2) Nothing.
3) Mr. Sixer apparently thinks Ruben should have gotten violent, or at least threatened it. Which pretty much complies with my opinion of his maturity level. It also demonstrates Rasheed Wallace's and Bonzi Wells' maturity level.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jan 7, 2008 15:15:51 GMT -5
1) The incident occurred -- it was reported somewhere legitimately. 2) Nothing. 3) Mr. Sixer apparently thinks Ruben should have gotten violent, or at least threatened it. Which pretty much complies with my opinion of his maturity level. It also demonstrates Rasheed Wallace's and Bonzi Wells' maturity level. Yeah, he should have threatened to put a cap in their azz, or have his boyz rough them up later. That would've solved things.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jan 7, 2008 15:21:06 GMT -5
You're holding that against him? Really? So u would allow a man to hit you in the head with something that could have seriously hurt you without doing anything about it once you got up off the ground? If its Bonzi Wells and Rasheed Wallace throwing a basketball at me, yes.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jan 7, 2008 17:07:45 GMT -5
NBA execs look for first round picks that have big upside potential. Roy would have been a lottery pick last year on the bet that he would continue to evolve as a player. However, averaging 12 and 7 a game for a third year in a row is killing his stock.
If Sapp or Summers end up leading the team in boards (which they are dangerously close do doing) Roy becomes a late first round pick.
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hoyafoeva
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Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 8, 2008 9:29:46 GMT -5
1. the question asked for you to rate his play thus far 2. who is "whinin"? i do not consider stating facts as "whinin'" 3. question, if Roy did not come back, what would our current record be, and why? IMO, he has not been a major factor in a single game..................................YET! 4. this is not the Roy most expected when he decided to return. his play has been terrible compared to last season 1. 7. Maybe an 8. 2. This team lost the #5 pick in the NBA draft and brought in two freshmen to a system that is brutal to newcomers. Because we lost Jeff, every single time we don't score or don't keep someone from scoring, everyone says it's Roy's fault. In the future, we will win a close game in which Roy plays well, and someone will complain that we should have won by more but that Roy didn't play well. 3. I said that we would not be playing as well, not that we'd have lost a game (though Roy was pretty critical in the Alabama game). Our schedule's been weak and all of our wins have been against relatively low-level competition. Roy provides a massive presence on a defense that is currently leading the country in both points allowed and field goal percentage defense. He is also good enough that he's usually covered by two people, which allows Summers, Wallace, and others open looks. Even when Roy doesn't show on the stat sheet, he's keeping other players open and letting them either drain threes or have uncontested layups. I assume that he's using the hook shot to prepare for the NBA - and, as long as we don't have a must-win game for the Big East, the BET, or the NCAAs, I'm cool with training for the next level. In the Rutgers game, there was a marked difference when Macklin was on the court and when Roy was on the court, and it wasn't just the free throws. 4. He's not performing the way you thought he would, so now you don't want him? Really? Would the team be better if he were released from his scholarship and sent to the NBDL now? EDIT - Roy isn't perfect. But I continue to believe that he will improve and play better as the season progresses, as he always has. And I also believe that the amount of criticism that people can give him is pretty slim. These are the same problems Shaq has faced his entire career. When the Lakers or Magic or Heat won, it was always about Kobe or Dwayne or Penny. When they lost, it was always Shaq's fault because he didn't move heaven and earth to win the game. It's the lot of centers in life to be disrespected. Lets not forget the season leading to the Sweet 16 where Roy was bashed by his own fans, he prevailed, then the bashing to the Final Four, he prevailed. We cannot do this without him, he's 7'2", he's an All-American, if you really wanna evaluate players lets evaluate our guard play. I think Jesse and some of the other guards need to step it up and be agressive and get in the paint also. The entry passes need to be very early and "consistent", I'm not saying every pass should go into Roy, but he is the big dog at 7 2 and thats the way basketball should be played, inside, out...Opinions on this please...
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Jan 8, 2008 10:39:52 GMT -5
[Lets not forget the season leading to the Sweet 16 where Roy was bashed by his own fans, he prevailed, then the bashing to the Final Four, he prevailed. We cannot do this without him, he's 7'2", he's an All-American, if you really wanna evaluate players lets evaluate our guard play. I think Jesse and some of the other guards need to step it up and be agressive and get in the paint also. The entry passes need to be very early and "consistent", I'm not saying every pass should go into Roy, but he is the big dog at 7 2 and thats the way basketball should be played, inside, out...Opinions on this please...[/quote]
The guard play has improved - did you watch the Rutgers game? Roy got the ball in excellent position almost every time down the court. Then he was outmuscled by a 6'8" nobody from Rutgers and couldn't do anything with it.
Also, Roy is not an All-American. He is a pre-season All-American. All-Americans are selected at the end of the season.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jan 8, 2008 10:53:51 GMT -5
This team has ONE loss (admittedly against a weak schedule). It lost its one game in a remarkably hostile arena to a team that played out of its mind. Why do we have to blame the guards or the forwards or the center? Everyone is playing a heck of a lot better than they were doing at this point last year (when we had Green and weren't ranked at this point).
Any team preparing for Georgetown has to figure out how to play Hibbert, or else he will have a monster game. I was at the Rutgers game, and Roy was consistently double-teamed. Georgetown's comeback faltered when Macklin was out there - when Roy came back, the team put the screws on. Georgetown's offense makes pre-season All-Americans pass the ball to someone else when they don't have clear shots. Roy could be forcing it and scoring twenty a game, but he usually passes out to our guards, who are clearly benefitting and knocking down threes.
(Aside - Someone said that we live and die by the three. It's not true - the threes that people take aren't contested. When you have good shooters, you play the odds (see Pitino, Rick, Coaching career at Providence and Kentucky of).)
I am convinced that Roy does not care about numbers - all he wants to do is win. He might not make All-America, but I'd rather have Roy on this team than any other center.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2008 11:03:29 GMT -5
This team has ONE loss (admittedly against a weak schedule). It lost its one game in a remarkably hostile arena to a team that played out of its mind. Why do we have to blame the guards or the forwards or the center? Everyone is playing a heck of a lot better than they were doing at this point last year (when we had Green and weren't ranked at this point). Any team preparing for Georgetown has to figure out how to play Hibbert, or else he will have a monster game. I was at the Rutgers game, and Roy was consistently double-teamed. Georgetown's comeback faltered when Macklin was out there - when Roy came back, the team put the screws on. Georgetown's offense makes pre-season All-Americans pass the ball to someone else when they don't have clear shots. Roy could be forcing it and scoring twenty a game, but he usually passes out to our guards, who are clearly benefitting and knocking down threes. (Aside - Someone said that we live and die by the three. It's not true - the threes that people take aren't contested. When you have good shooters, you play the odds (see Pitino, Rick, Coaching career at Providence and Kentucky of).) I am convinced that Roy does not care about numbers - all he wants to do is win. He might not make All-America, but I'd rather have Roy on this team than any other center. Agree with this post. That said, Roy has still been a disappointment (probably the biggest?) this year. Which, obviously, ain't over yet...
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