mrsixer123
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Post by mrsixer123 on Jan 6, 2008 1:39:04 GMT -5
rate Roy's play on a scale of 1-10. IMO, he is playing with no confidence and his play has regressed by a large margin from last year. he is playing as if he is tired and the season has just started!!
too much competitive play this summer?
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jan 6, 2008 1:45:15 GMT -5
Look. Everybody wanted Roy to come back this year, and many people wrote considerable paeans to him.
He's back. Stop yer whinin'.
He may not be perfect, but if he weren't here, we wouldn't be playing nearly as well as we are.
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mrsixer123
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Post by mrsixer123 on Jan 6, 2008 1:53:10 GMT -5
Look. Everybody wanted Roy to come back this year, and many people wrote considerable paeans to him. He's back. Stop yer whinin'. He may not be perfect, but if he weren't here, we wouldn't be playing nearly as well as we are. 1. the question asked for you to rate his play thus far 2. who is "whinin"? i do not consider stating facts as "whinin'" 3. question, if Roy did not come back, what would our current record be, and why? IMO, he has not been a major factor in a single game..................................YET! 4. this is not the Roy most expected when he decided to return. his play has been terrible compared to last season
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jan 6, 2008 2:09:06 GMT -5
Look. Everybody wanted Roy to come back this year, and many people wrote considerable paeans to him. He's back. Stop yer whinin'. He may not be perfect, but if he weren't here, we wouldn't be playing nearly as well as we are. 1. the question asked for you to rate his play thus far 2. who is "whinin"? i do not consider stating facts as "whinin'" 3. question, if Roy did not come back, what would our current record be, and why? IMO, he has not been a major factor in a single game..................................YET! 4. this is not the Roy most expected when he decided to return. his play has been terrible compared to last season 1. 7. Maybe an 8. 2. This team lost the #5 pick in the NBA draft and brought in two freshmen to a system that is brutal to newcomers. Because we lost Jeff, every single time we don't score or don't keep someone from scoring, everyone says it's Roy's fault. In the future, we will win a close game in which Roy plays well, and someone will complain that we should have won by more but that Roy didn't play well. 3. I said that we would not be playing as well, not that we'd have lost a game (though Roy was pretty critical in the Alabama game). Our schedule's been weak and all of our wins have been against relatively low-level competition. Roy provides a massive presence on a defense that is currently leading the country in both points allowed and field goal percentage defense. He is also good enough that he's usually covered by two people, which allows Summers, Wallace, and others open looks. Even when Roy doesn't show on the stat sheet, he's keeping other players open and letting them either drain threes or have uncontested layups. I assume that he's using the hook shot to prepare for the NBA - and, as long as we don't have a must-win game for the Big East, the BET, or the NCAAs, I'm cool with training for the next level. In the Rutgers game, there was a marked difference when Macklin was on the court and when Roy was on the court, and it wasn't just the free throws. 4. He's not performing the way you thought he would, so now you don't want him? Really? Would the team be better if he were released from his scholarship and sent to the NBDL now? EDIT - Roy isn't perfect. But I continue to believe that he will improve and play better as the season progresses, as he always has. And I also believe that the amount of criticism that people can give him is pretty slim. These are the same problems Shaq has faced his entire career. When the Lakers or Magic or Heat won, it was always about Kobe or Dwayne or Penny. When they lost, it was always Shaq's fault because he didn't move heaven and earth to win the game. It's the lot of centers in life to be disrespected.
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mrsixer123
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Post by mrsixer123 on Jan 6, 2008 2:34:46 GMT -5
1. the question asked for you to rate his play thus far 2. who is "whinin"? i do not consider stating facts as "whinin'" 3. question, if Roy did not come back, what would our current record be, and why? IMO, he has not been a major factor in a single game..................................YET! 4. this is not the Roy most expected when he decided to return. his play has been terrible compared to last season 1. 7. Maybe an 8. 2. This team lost the #5 pick in the NBA draft and brought in two freshmen to a system that is brutal to newcomers. Because we lost Jeff, every single time we don't score or don't keep someone from scoring, everyone says it's Roy's fault. In the future, we will win a close game in which Roy plays well, and someone will complain that we should have won by more but that Roy didn't play well. 3. I said that we would not be playing as well, not that we'd have lost a game (though Roy was pretty critical in the Alabama game). Our schedule's been weak and all of our wins have been against relatively low-level competition. Roy provides a massive presence on a defense that is currently leading the country in both points allowed and field goal percentage defense. He is also good enough that he's usually covered by two people, which allows Summers, Wallace, and others open looks. Even when Roy doesn't show on the stat sheet, he's keeping other players open and letting them either drain threes or have uncontested layups. I assume that he's using the hook shot to prepare for the NBA - and, as long as we don't have a must-win game for the Big East, the BET, or the NCAAs, I'm cool with training for the next level. In the Rutgers game, there was a marked difference when Macklin was on the court and when Roy was on the court, and it wasn't just the free throws. 4. He's not performing the way you thought he would, so now you don't want him? Really? Would the team be better if he were released from his scholarship and sent to the NBDL now? EDIT - Roy isn't perfect. But I continue to believe that he will improve and play better as the season progresses, as he always has. And I also believe that the amount of criticism that people can give him is pretty slim. These are the same problems Shaq has faced his entire career. When the Lakers or Magic or Heat won, it was always about Kobe or Dwayne or Penny. When they lost, it was always Shaq's fault because he didn't move heaven and earth to win the game. It's the lot of centers in life to be disrespected. you started off so well, but you totally lost me at the end of your post: 1. "He's not performing the way you thought he would, so now you don't want him" when did i say i did not want him? i am stating facts that his play has regressed from last season 2. This team lost the #5 pick in the NBA draft and brought in two freshmen to a system that is brutal to newcomers." if the system is so "brutal," why is one of those freshman starting? 3. "Roy provides a massive presence on a defense that is currently leading the country in both points allowed and field goal percentage defense. " if he provided a "massive" presence shouldn't the rebound totals be a bit more favorable for us? the fact that we use most of the shot clock and limit teams O possessions is a major factor for the points allowed and FG D
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 6, 2008 9:51:31 GMT -5
Just a small observation:
A friend remarked to me yesterday that just a few minutes in, it looked like Roy was already dragging on the court. Maybe he was a little under the weather (I know I was). But the fact is, summer play or not, he shouldn't even look remotely tired out there. Roy averages 24.6 minutes a game, which is extremely low for a player of his repute at the college level. I would hate to think stamina right now is an issue for him. It's not something I can say for sure. But it could be.
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hoyaLS05
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Post by hoyaLS05 on Jan 6, 2008 10:11:17 GMT -5
1. the question asked for you to rate his play thus far 2. who is "whinin"? i do not consider stating facts as "whinin'" 3. question, if Roy did not come back, what would our current record be, and why? IMO, he has not been a major factor in a single game..................................YET! 4. this is not the Roy most expected when he decided to return. his play has been terrible compared to last season 1. 7. Maybe an 8. 2. This team lost the #5 pick in the NBA draft and brought in two freshmen to a system that is brutal to newcomers. Because we lost Jeff, every single time we don't score or don't keep someone from scoring, everyone says it's Roy's fault. In the future, we will win a close game in which Roy plays well, and someone will complain that we should have won by more but that Roy didn't play well. 3. I said that we would not be playing as well, not that we'd have lost a game (though Roy was pretty critical in the Alabama game). Our schedule's been weak and all of our wins have been against relatively low-level competition. Roy provides a massive presence on a defense that is currently leading the country in both points allowed and field goal percentage defense. He is also good enough that he's usually covered by two people, which allows Summers, Wallace, and others open looks. Even when Roy doesn't show on the stat sheet, he's keeping other players open and letting them either drain threes or have uncontested layups. I assume that he's using the hook shot to prepare for the NBA - and, as long as we don't have a must-win game for the Big East, the BET, or the NCAAs, I'm cool with training for the next level. In the Rutgers game, there was a marked difference when Macklin was on the court and when Roy was on the court, and it wasn't just the free throws. 4. He's not performing the way you thought he would, so now you don't want him? Really? Would the team be better if he were released from his scholarship and sent to the NBDL now? EDIT - Roy isn't perfect. But I continue to believe that he will improve and play better as the season progresses, as he always has. And I also believe that the amount of criticism that people can give him is pretty slim. These are the same problems Shaq has faced his entire career. When the Lakers or Magic or Heat won, it was always about Kobe or Dwayne or Penny. When they lost, it was always Shaq's fault because he didn't move heaven and earth to win the game. It's the lot of centers in life to be disrespected. At this point in Roy's career, there should be no comparisons to Shaq. Not for any reason. Why do most people seem insistent on giving Roy a free pass? He's been pretty decent. I'm certainly glad he is back. He helps a great deal on D, though his rebounding is sub par. I wouldn't just cut him and send him to the NBDL or any of those other asinine suggestions thrown out there. But look, this guy was a first team preseason All-American. And he is woefully underperforming. He has not been the game changer he was expected to be, and as a result, our team is not reaching its full potential. An obvious response to that last paragraph is that the expectations were unrealistic. OK, I'll buy that. But forgot that first team All-American stuff. He was better LAST SEASON. I know, he had Jeff Green out there with him. But that should not affect his aggression and it should not affect his repertoire of post moves. He often looks lethargic out there and the variety of moves he uses has diminished. I refuse to attribute those problems to Jeff's absence. If you'd like to say Roy is still young, he's still improving, he has a great attitude, and overlook this season's shortcomings, that is fine. But I don't think there is anything wrong with expecting a little bit more out of him than what we've seen so far. He plays for the No. 7 team in the country and he deserves to be evaluated critically. I expect him to at least get back to last year's level.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 6, 2008 10:41:53 GMT -5
The 1-10 scale in and of itself is too simplistic, although I'd peg it in the 6 range if the standard is the pre-season hype. Roy himself has said he needs to get more aggressive and has made it pretty clear he doesn't think he is where he should be yet. The expectations of many on this board are very high, sometimes too high, but it's clear he has not reached his potential yet. It is likely no coincidence that his best games (offensively at least) have come in the past when he is matched up with a more traditional center, like Gray from Pitt.
I agree with others that I would like to see more of the drop step and aggressive moves to the basket return. Roy has done a nice job of moving the ball and passing out of the post in the offense - it is getting to be time for him to vary the pattern and take advantage of the openings that are there. The rebounding is a team thing, but if he's at the top of the key when the shot goes up he's going to end up with as many over the back fouls as rebounds, probably more. He has been more of a defensive than offensive presence thus far this year.
I have not seen any games in person yet this year, so I have no data to make a comment on conditioning.
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Jan 6, 2008 11:19:08 GMT -5
I give him a 5 on individual skills and a 8 on team skills. He's been outplayed by centers of several teams we've played against. Stamina is a problem - though that is partly JTIII's fault for not leaving him in the games against lesser opponents. Yesterday Roy was catching the ball at will within 5-7 feet of the basket all game long and not really doing much with it. Can't blame the guards for that.
HOWEVER, I think he is passing quite well and playing within himself knowing his own limitations. While we can say that he should be "more aggressive", I'd rather that he pass out to Wallace or Summers when he's double-teamed and have those guys drain three-pointers as opposed to Roy trying to bully his way to the basket and either miss or get fouled and then make 1 of 2 free throws.
So his one-on-one game is lacking but his team game is just fine I'd think.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Jan 6, 2008 11:42:55 GMT -5
I remember that during the William & Mary game my friends and I were gushing over his seemingly improved footwork as he made several impressive moves to the basket. Those moves seem to have disappeared over the course of the season, which is disappointing because watching Roy dominate is so much fun.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Jan 6, 2008 11:47:02 GMT -5
Don't get reeled in here - Mr.Sixer is just starting another thread here so later on he can post for about the 200th time something like "didn't someone start a thread saying xxxxxx and was met with a lot of opposition."
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jan 6, 2008 11:49:53 GMT -5
I have been waiting for a thread like this because frankly... I am very dissappointed in Roy's performance. If Roy's performace againt NC and Ohio St. in the FF was a 9 or 10, I would give him a 4 as of now.
I was expecting Roy to continue improving this year, just as he did from his freshman to sophmore year, and then again from his sophmore to junior season. I also thought that with jeff gone he might grab some more boards and get more touches leading to more points.... boy was i wrong.
He looks lethargic and weak. His numbers are down in every category. In every game, he seems to be getting pushed around by smaller guys. And where did all his post moves from a year ago go? All he likes doing is going to his side arm hook... bring back the drop step please!!!!
In the end, while Roy is a great second or third option on a team... he's not doing very well as a first option. He misses Jeff and all the attention Jeff drew to himself in the paint.
When I look at this team... I feel much more comfortable when the offinse goes through Dajuan, Austin or Jon. It feels to me that we lose our flow when trying to force the issue with Roy. That said, I also understand that in order for us to get anywhere in March... the difference maker has to be Roy. In the end, I agree with Bilas when in college game day he said that the Hoyas were better team last year with Jeff and that we have some work to do to get back to where we were a year ago.
To answer your question Mr. Sixer.... no more than a 4.
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KHoyaNYC
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Jan 6, 2008 12:46:24 GMT -5
Passing: 9.5
Shooting: 3
Ball Handling: 3
Rebounding: 2
Moving/positioning without the ball: 3
Defense: 5
Foul Shooting: 2
Intangibles: 5
Overall: 4
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mrsixer123
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Post by mrsixer123 on Jan 6, 2008 13:51:11 GMT -5
Don't get reeled in here - Mr.Sixer is just starting another thread here so later on he can post for about the 200th time something like "didn't someone start a thread saying xxxxxx and was met with a lot of opposition." And for the 200th i have proven the opposition to be inferior. My original post on roy was weeks ago! Actually, months ago as i said he should not play in the summer international tourny because he would not gain anything and he would not have enough recovery time to be the dominate player he was projected to be in his senior year. Imo, the kid has hit the wall! He played well into march, then he played in a international tourny, and he played in the kenner league shortly thereafter.
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Post by Hoya TMF on Jan 6, 2008 14:58:12 GMT -5
this seems like at least a two part question. overall, I'd rate roy's play at a 5.5/10. the free throws and rebounding are horrible. i don't care what his rebounding numbers are. he isn't boxing out and is getting beat to rebounds. watching him shoot free throws, it doesn't even look like he's trying to make them anyomore.still, he's working hard in other areas. he passes extremely well, but has struggled with the double team. also, he almost seems to be passing two much. a two point attempt against single coverage near the basket still seems like a higher percentage shot than a three pointer. his offensive skills in the post seem to have regressed. after three plus eyars in college, roy still hasn't learned to effectively use the drop step. he should be sealing players on his back, spinning away from them for easy lay-ups and dunks. i can't udnerstand why this is so difficult for him, especially given all of the low post scorers he plays with and against in the off-season. as far as intangibles, he seems willing and able to do the small things we need to win. he's been on the floor more than once this seasona fter a loose ball, takes charges, and passes the ball for easy scores. in that respect, i've been really impressed. overall, i'd rate his play at a 5.5. just above his average. he can be doing so many things better, particularly with his shooting from the field and the stripe as well as rebounding.
but the second part of this is about his role on the team. roy is a senior, a captain and our best player. its completely unacceptable for him not to be aggressive every night. he is going to have bad games, just like everyone else, but yesterday he looked lost even against single coverage by a smaller player. i don't get it. he is the most important player to our team and our only chance at returning to the final four and competing for a title. roy knows that. everyone knows that. the fact that he was a no show against memphis is totally unacceptable.
so his overall play this season is about a 5.5/10. but given roy's role as the "hub" of a supposed title contnder, it might as well be a 2.
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mrsixer123
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Post by mrsixer123 on Jan 6, 2008 16:41:02 GMT -5
this seems like at least a two part question. overall, I'd rate roy's play at a 5.5/10. the free throws and rebounding are horrible. i don't care what his rebounding numbers are. he isn't boxing out and is getting beat to rebounds. watching him shoot free throws, it doesn't even look like he's trying to make them anyomore.still, he's working hard in other areas. he passes extremely well, but has struggled with the double team. also, he almost seems to be passing two much. a two point attempt against single coverage near the basket still seems like a higher percentage shot than a three pointer. his offensive skills in the post seem to have regressed. after three plus eyars in college, roy still hasn't learned to effectively use the drop step. he should be sealing players on his back, spinning away from them for easy lay-ups and dunks. i can't udnerstand why this is so difficult for him, especially given all of the low post scorers he plays with and against in the off-season. as far as intangibles, he seems willing and able to do the small things we need to win. he's been on the floor more than once this seasona fter a loose ball, takes charges, and passes the ball for easy scores. in that respect, i've been really impressed. overall, i'd rate his play at a 5.5. just above his average. he can be doing so many things better, particularly with his shooting from the field and the stripe as well as rebounding. but the second part of this is about his role on the team. roy is a senior, a captain and our best player. its completely unacceptable for him not to be aggressive every night. he is going to have bad games, just like everyone else, but yesterday he looked lost even against single coverage by a smaller player. i don't get it. he is the most important player to our team and our only chance at returning to the final four and competing for a title. roy knows that. everyone knows that. the fact that he was a no show against memphis is totally unacceptable. so his overall play this season is about a 5.5/10. but given roy's role as the "hub" of a supposed title contnder, it might as well be a 2. 1. A "2?" i thought i was tough when grading our players 2. I actually think roy had the drop step/spin move for the dunk in his soph and junior years. Two games that come to mind are the oh st game where he man handled their big man and the osu game where he outplayed the #1 pick, imo. At first i thought maybe it was a issue with him not being comfortable as being "the man," but he has carried the team in several ncaa tourny games when jeff had a off night. 3. I totally agree with the lack of "onions" roy has shown on O. His inability to be the team leader that everyone expected, imo, has forced his teammates and coaches to adjust things on the fly. Hopefully he will get his stamina/confidence back as there is nothing better than roy spinning on his man with a jam while being fouled and hearing the roy............................. roy,roy,roy............roy,roy,roy........................................roy,roy,roy, rooooyee! Chant
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jan 6, 2008 20:33:33 GMT -5
I'd take Boumtje-Boumtje's first 12 games of his senior year over Roy's thus far.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Jan 6, 2008 21:22:40 GMT -5
Seems like as good a place any to post this given the theme here...
Not surprisingly, Roy's draft stock is suffering right now. This is the write-up from Chad Ford (Insider article at ESPN.com), where he lists the Cream of the Crop (Beasley at no.1), Who's Hot, and Who's Not. Roy is under the Who's Not category:
Roy Hibbert, C, Senior, Georgetown Hibbert probably wishes he had declared for the NBA draft last season along with Jeff Green. Hibbert was supposed to be the go-to guy for Georgetown this season, but his numbers remain underwhelming. He's averaging 12 points and seven rebounds per game -- basically the same numbers he's put up the last two years.
Hibbert continues to underperform on the boards despite his size. And he really bombed in a matchup with Memphis, where he tallied six points and six rebounds and was outplayed by 6-foot-9 center Joey Dorsey. Of all the scouts I spoke with, none had Hibbert on their list of Top 10 prospects. We have him at No. 18.
On a somewhat bizarre note, John Riek is listed under another category (Sleeper Alert) and Ford has him at No. 9!
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mrsixer123
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Post by mrsixer123 on Jan 6, 2008 22:40:25 GMT -5
I'd take Boumtje-Boumtje's first 12 games of his senior year over Roy's thus far. no way!! roy's bball iq is far superior to RBB due to their coach. additionally, roy carried us several times in the ncaa tourny, while RBB allowed the terps under sized front court to take his manhood in the 2nd half. that and he pulled a fred brown by saying he liked esh more b/c big john yelled too much. you dont air out family business. i lost total respect for him when he did that. then there was the portland incident: "As they were leaving the practice facility Wednesday, the morning of their final shootaround together, [Bonzi] Wells and [Rasheed] Wallace saw Ruben Boumtje Boumtje shooting jump shots some 100 feet away with his back turned to them. Wallace slapped Wells on the back and said, "Watch this." Then he picked up a ball, reared back and fired a 100-foot, baseball-style strike that left Boumtje Boumtje writhing the floor. Trainers were summoned. After a few scary minutes, Boumtje Boumtje walked off, OK"
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mrsixer123
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Post by mrsixer123 on Jan 6, 2008 22:45:50 GMT -5
Seems like as good a place any to post this given the theme here... Not surprisingly, Roy's draft stock is suffering right now. This is the write-up from Chad Ford (Insider article at ESPN.com), where he lists the Cream of the Crop (Beasley at no.1), Who's Hot, and Who's Not. Roy is under the Who's Not category: Roy Hibbert, C, Senior, Georgetown Hibbert probably wishes he had declared for the NBA draft last season along with Jeff Green. Hibbert was supposed to be the go-to guy for Georgetown this season, but his numbers remain underwhelming. He's averaging 12 points and seven rebounds per game -- basically the same numbers he's put up the last two years.
Hibbert continues to underperform on the boards despite his size. And he really bombed in a matchup with Memphis, where he tallied six points and six rebounds and was outplayed by 6-foot-9 center Joey Dorsey. Of all the scouts I spoke with, none had Hibbert on their list of Top 10 prospects. We have him at No. 18. On a somewhat bizarre note, John Riek is listed under another category (Sleeper Alert) and Ford has him at No. 9! if roy continues to play as he has thusfar, i wouldnt take him at 18. if he can't man up againt smaller college players, what is he going to do against nba big men?
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