hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,224
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Post by hoyarooter on Jan 13, 2005 17:35:34 GMT -5
I'm a little late to the party here, but I would like to add my voice (no pun intended) to those who found this "parody" tasteless and pointless. I've done my share of Esh bashing on this board, and am not above still throwing in a snide comment now and then, but this is way overboard. Let it be.
I now pledge to limit my one fist - two fist references to a maximum of two per month (annualized).
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doublehoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
That's Right, I Said Minivan!
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Post by doublehoya on Jan 13, 2005 17:58:49 GMT -5
There is nothing inconsistent with saying that those of us who supported Esh's firing also feel that the voice parody piece (some 10 months later -- way to stay topical, Voice!) was in bad taste.
Parody is usually used to attempt to effect change -- this same piece, while hackneyed, unfunny, and generally poorly written, would have been received much differently if it (or something similar) was written prior to Esh's firing -- then it would have been parody with a purpose. Here it was just piling on a dedicated son of Georgetown who gave it his best.
Yes, Esh's best wasn't good enough, and I was happy he was fired, but the Voice article is nothing more than kicking a man when he is down (and out). Poor taste.
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hoopsmccan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoopsmccan on Jan 13, 2005 18:11:52 GMT -5
You can get away with just about anything, bad taste or not, if its funny (with the notable exception of making fun of FDR's lame legs - its too soon). The article was not funny so people think its in bad taste, lets move on to another topic like, I don't know, our surprising basketball team.
Best of luck to CE, you made me laugh and cry, but mostly cry.
hm
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doublehoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
That's Right, I Said Minivan!
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Post by doublehoya on Jan 13, 2005 18:14:10 GMT -5
"Best of luck to CE, you made me laugh and cry, but mostly cry."
Now THAT'S funny!!!
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,997
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Post by kghoya on Jan 13, 2005 18:28:40 GMT -5
WOW!!!!! Now THAT is something. That is worst than what was written in the Georgtown Voice Article.  i follow two 2 college sports...football and basketball...i follow notre dame in football and obviously georgetown in basketball im the luckiest fan alive...first esherick then willingham...great people, average coaches, bad losses that being said...i dont like the article either...no reason to pile on....esherick loved the hoyas..just couldnt coach them as well as he would have liked to |
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Post by chinatownfanclub on Jan 13, 2005 20:06:30 GMT -5
the rally was not intended to call for esherick's firing?? if u believe that i got some great swamp land in fla for sale. i'm a little tired of the "organizers" trying to claim that it wasn't all about trying to get esh fired. Let's be honest with one another. We all graduated from Georgetown and recognize those who graduated with a B.S. degree
Ok. I'm over it now. go hoyas. Beat the undermanned Cats
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jan 13, 2005 20:10:10 GMT -5
the rally was not intended to call for esherick's firing?? if u believe that i got some great swamp land in fla for sale. i'm a little tired of the "organizers" trying to claim that it wasn't all about trying to get esh fired. Let's be honest with one another. We all graduated from Georgetown and recognize those who graduated with a B.S. degree Ok. I'm over it now. go hoyas. Beat the undermanned Cats Perhaps you or the_way would like to furnish us with some piece of evidence or any evidence to suggest that the rally was all about getting Esherick fired. Maybe it would have been cancelled if that was the case. |
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jan 13, 2005 20:17:45 GMT -5
Well said. If that were what we all really wanted then YB, 007, and I would have stopped working and talking about this a long time ago.
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,083
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Post by GUHoya07 on Jan 13, 2005 20:31:02 GMT -5
the rally was not intended to call for esherick's firing?? if u believe that i got some great swamp land in fla for sale. i'm a little tired of the "organizers" trying to claim that it wasn't all about trying to get esh fired. Let's be honest with one another. We all graduated from Georgetown and recognize those who graduated with a B.S. degree Ok. I'm over it now. go hoyas. Beat the undermanned Cats Yeah, no offense chinatown, but in this case you have no idea what you're talking about. I can honestly say that the rally never aimed to get Esh fired. If it did we would just admit it because I dont think we would mind being partly responsible for the rebirth of Georgetown Basketball. |
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Jan 13, 2005 20:32:03 GMT -5
Perhaps you or the_way would like to furnish us with some piece of evidence or any evidence to suggest that the rally was all about getting Esherick fired. Maybe it would have been cancelled if that was the case. The evidence? it is self-evident. And it is disingenous to say that the orgranizers took the hgh ground and were not calling for esh's head. OK, maybe they all signed some secret memo agreeing to that. But how could intelligent GU students, knowing the shape of the program, knowing the mood of most fans, not be aware that their rally would be perceived as a "Fire Esh" rally? Clearly, that is what virtually everyone thought at the time, and even now one of the organizers is taking credit for getting Esh fired (which is another example of enormous overstatement of the effect of the rally). I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him. IMHO, it is hypocritical to insist the rally was not about firing Esherick |
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by GUHoya07 on Jan 13, 2005 20:37:45 GMT -5
Just because it was perceived by people who didnt know much about it as a "Fire Esh" rally doesnt mean anything about our intentions. You are very wrong about this. Once again, I would just admit it already if that had been one of our goals. That seriously never crossed my mind while planning the rally. It crossed my mind while signing the "Save the Hoyas" petition but not while organizing the rally at all.
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CAHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by CAHoya07 on Jan 13, 2005 20:39:46 GMT -5
I can't believe we're still talking about this, but as an atendee of the aforementioned rally, I will say that the rally seemed to have at least something to do with Esherick, and the downfall of the program under his watch. However, his firing was a pleasant surprise, and not the main goal. I did not have anything to do with planning the rally, but as an atendee my interpretation was that it was about the direction of the program as a whole, and the coach is only a small part of that. All - and by all I mean about 20-25 people, a disappointing turnout that probably had to do with this misinterpretation - who attended the discussion afterwards basically agreed that firing Esherick was a step in the right direction, but there was a lot more work to be done with facilities, sports information, promotion, and most of all a commitment from the University. As St Petes said, these have not been met yet and we will continue to fight for them.
As for the article, I actually thought it was kind of funny at first, but not in the best taste and at a horrible time. Realize though that students here today only know Esh as the crazed, defiant, wacko coach that allowed our basketball team to sink to new lows, and not the loyal assistant to JT for more than 2 decades. That doesn't make it right, but it helps to explain. I wish we students were more history conscious, but we're not.
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by GUHoya07 on Jan 13, 2005 20:45:00 GMT -5
The reason the rally had anything to do with Esh is because he was fired the night before. It was obviously gonna be discussed at that point but it was in no way a goal, at least not of mine in the rally, no matter what anyone says.
Now, why the hell do people care so much anyway? Can we just get on with our lives and focus on the team we have now and the game on Saturday. We have lots to be excited about and this is idiotic.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jan 13, 2005 21:18:41 GMT -5
The evidence? it is self-evident. And it is disingenous to say that the orgranizers took the hgh ground and were not calling for esh's head. OK, maybe they all signed some secret memo agreeing to that. But how could intelligent GU students, knowing the shape of the program, knowing the mood of most fans, not be aware that their rally would be perceived as a "Fire Esh" rally? Clearly, that is what virtually everyone thought at the time, and even now one of the organizers is taking credit for getting Esh fired (which is another example of enormous overstatement of the effect of the rally). I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him. IMHO, it is hypocritical to insist the rally was not about firing Esherick I think it is a bit silly to expect the organizers of the rally to control how students at large perceive it, and they shouldn't necessarily change their tact based on these erroneous perceptions. Also, thinking that it is a Fire Esherick rally because students perceive it as such takes a leap of faith and a couple missed steps in a logical process. A large portion of the country may have viewed the inauguration in 2001 as illegitimate or illegal due to the election controversy, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an inauguration of a new POTUS. Also, your argument that is "self-evident" is a bit suspicious in that it relies on your own subjectivity rather than an objective analysis of the documents generated by the organizers, the advertisements, statements to media outlets, and so forth. The following is a quote from the Weekly Standard, which gave extensive coverage to Steven Thomas' efforts: " STEVEN THOMAS, Georgetown Class of '97, decided to draft a petition after the most recent Virginia Tech loss. In the petition are demands for better communication between the administration and students and alumni, improved scheduling "with a minimum of MEAC schools," seating the student body around the court, and renovations of on-campus McDonough Arena, ultimately leading to all games being played there. Thomas planned to stage a rally on St. Patrick's Day and hand-deliver the signed petitions to DeGioia's office. "They cannot ignore us any longer," he said. Notably missing from Thomas's petition was a demand for Esherick's dismissal." Did the Weekly Standard get it wrong here? If so, perhaps you should have written a letter to their editor seeking to point out some imagined factual inaccuracy or how they allegedly failed to read Thomas' petitions/letters accurately. That would have been something. |
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Jan 13, 2005 21:20:53 GMT -5
Oh, how do they squirm! You know, if you tell the truth, you don't have to keep supplying reason, after spin, after reason, after spin, after reason, after spin in defense of that so-called truth. THE TRUTH[/i] defends itself. I just laugh at how people who were so bold at one point back in April, are now acting so cowardly, retracting statements. I've been called a flip-flopper on this board which is far from the truth. However, I know I can sleep soundly at night knowing if that all I am is just that, a flip-flopper, rather than someone who promoted an agenda at the expense of another, just to get their name in the paper and their face on television. The real truth is, that with all the so-called "love for the program" with the rally and petition, the 3000+ so-called individuals are nowhere to be found now. That is the sad thing. I wish Esh had parted on better terms. If it is such that Esh would no longer be here, than I'm glad JTIII is the head coach because he knows the program, LOVES[/i] the program,and does what he thinks is best for the program. Its not just lip-service. The program is on the up and up. Anyway, I'm glad those 3000+ cold and timid souls aren't around anymore. They were no good to Georgetown in the first place.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jan 13, 2005 21:30:14 GMT -5
Oh, how do they squirm! You know, if you tell the truth, you don't have to keep supplying reason, after spin, after reason, after spin, after reason, after spin in defense of that so-called truth. THE TRUTH[/i] defends itself. I just laugh at how people who were so bold at one point back in April, are now acting so cowardly, retracting statements. I've been called a flip-flopper on this board which is far from the truth. However, I know I can sleep soundly at night knowing if that all I am is just that, a flip-flopper, rather than someone who promoted an agenda at the expense of another, just to get their name in the paper and their face on television. The real truth is, that with all the so-called "love for program" with the rally and petition, the 3000+ so-called individuals are nowhere to be found now. That is the sad thing. I wish Esh had parted on better terms. If it is such that Esh would no longer be here, than I'm glad JTIII is the head coach because he knows the program, LOVES[\b][\i] the program,and does what he thinks is best for the program. Its not just lip-service. The program is on the up and up. Anyway, I'm glad those 3000+ cold and timid souls aren't around anymore. They were no good to Georgetown in the first place.[/quote] Another tale full of sound and fury signifying absolutely nothing... You have yet to furnish anything that resembles evidence and it is amusing to witness. In your world, it seems, TRUTH requires no substantiation because reason is allegedly a tool of folks who are spinning rather than supplying an argument. Interesting perspective there to say the least. In terms of your flip-flopping, first you were for Esherick to the extent that you argued against his firing, now you are against him to the extent that you finally recognize that he should have been canned. I appreciate your support of the new regime but question your credibility on an ongoing basis. Also, on the 3,000 people, you have no idea who they are unless you saved the petition, so you have no clue as to what they are doing to support the program. Word on the street at the beginning of the season was that HHC registrations were increasing in an appreciable fashion. Maybe there is some overlap there, but I do not know because I did not save the petition either. |
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,083
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Post by GUHoya07 on Jan 13, 2005 21:32:51 GMT -5
What the hell are you talking about? If the best defense for me is not saying any more than I wont, but Im sick of people saying what they think about the rally when it is complete BS. Remember, the rally and petition were 2 separate things so don't give me that "3,000 + cold and timid souls" crap.
And this: "rather than someone who promoted an agenda at the expense of another, just to get their name in the paper and their face on television."
That statement alone shows me how clueless you are about this. Yeah, Im sure that's what Steve was going for, his name in the paper. Shut up already, you're a clown.
Im done now, say what you want but this is all pointless. If you refuse to accept the fact that the rally was not about Esh then I guess thats just how its gonna be and you are too stubborn to face reality. The point is, we need to stop arguing about this and come together. We should be rallying around the team and be excited about the future and this game on Saturday. That's what Im gonna do and I hope you will join me, regardless of our differences in this thread. WE ARE GEORGETOWN!!! BEAT NOVA!!!
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CAHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,598
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Post by CAHoya07 on Jan 13, 2005 21:34:56 GMT -5
Oh, how do they squirm! You know, if you tell the truth, you don't have to keep supplying reason, after spin, after reason, after spin, after reason, after spin in defense of that so-called truth. THE TRUTH[/i] defends itself. I just laugh at how people who were so bold at one point back in April, are now acting so cowardly, retracting statements. I've been called a flip-flopper on this board which is far from the truth. However, I know I can sleep soundly at night knowing if that all I am is just that, a flip-flopper, rather than someone who promoted an agenda at the expense of another, just to get their name in the paper and their face on television. The real truth is, that with all the so-called "love for the program" with the rally and petition, the 3000+ so-called individuals are nowhere to be found now. That is the sad thing. I wish Esh had parted on better terms. If it is such that Esh would no longer be here, than I'm glad JTIII is the head coach because he knows the program, LOVES[/i] the program,and does what he thinks is best for the program. Its not just lip-service. The program is on the up and up. Anyway, I'm glad those 3000+ cold and timid souls aren't around anymore. They were no good to Georgetown in the first place.[/quote] Easy on those 3000+ that voiced support for our program. Nowhere to be found? I don't know how you could say that. And you couldn't base this on home attendance, because most Hoyas live all around the country, making attending games pratically impossible. Anyway, I agree with 007 - this is all nonsense. It's in the past. We have a new coach, some new talent, a new direction - and most importantly, a very important road game against 'Nova on Saturday. |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jan 13, 2005 21:35:26 GMT -5
Good point there, 007, about showing unity, but I question whether the_way is a GU fan. I will supply no argumentation to support that fact because facts do not require supporting evidence but rather "defend themselves."
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Jan 13, 2005 21:52:44 GMT -5
My position stands like it was before. I'm a here for Georgetown, and I bleed the blue and gray. I'm not a lip-professor nor am I fool. Save your arguments for those who were born yesterday. All I know is WE ARE GEORGETOWN. The die-hard fans shall rise and the fair-weather ones will fall by the wayside like they always do.
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