The Hoya Goes Nuts?

[TBird41]

Eh, I don't really care. I do find this quote, in the Hoya, about Hoya independance to be kind of amusing though.

“A newspaper should not be reporting on the organization that owns it,” Mendoza said

Wonder how the article about the Hoya got into the Hoya then?

[nychoya3]

Does anyone have a better rundown on A) why The Hoya would do this in the first place and B) whether it's a bad idea? Ideally, not the score settling sort of stuff that the first post sounded like.

[FLHoya]

tbird41 said:

Eh, I don't really care.

Which given the subtext of the first post brings up an interesting point:

If there's an explosion and nobody's around to here it, does the dynamite go BOOM?

[TBird41]

I would probably notice. I don't really care if the Hoya is good or not, but I do enjoy reading it to enjoy all the stupid stuff that gets in there, like the fact that member of the Corp Board of Directors has a column, and uses it to write advertisements for the Corp. I mean, that's not a conflict of interest or anything...

[SirSaxa]

It strikes me as very odd. What do most other college papers do?

If it becomes independent, what does that mean for the students who work on it? Can someone continue to work there after they are no longer a full time student at GU?

They say they had a surplus of $50,000. I would guess that could easily disappear in a big hurry if the paper has to start paying for its own office space and such.

Is there really a problem with the way the paper runs now? Don't they have editorial freedom anyway?

Years ago, I worked for the GU Voice. Not only did we never have a surplus, we were always desperate for $$ from anywhere, just to stay afloat. And no one ever commented on what we were allowed to write or not.

Perhaps there is a real reason for the hoya's move, but if so, it wasn't explained in that column.

[Jack]

For more of the "why" argument, visit: www.freethehoya.com/

[JimmyHoya]

I thought this was in refrence to the equally hideous artcile about Steve IDONTCARE from G-dub stepping down in 2007.

That hogwash belongs on the last page. *spits*

[Cambridge]

Hoya makes money.

The surplus they make is distributed to other organizations.

Restrictions placed on Hoya by their current status.

I think that about sums it up.

[hoya3416]

It's clear that cooldc is completely uninformed.

Independence negotiations have been in place for 2-3 years, dating to when Mendoza was a freshman and not involved in the paper. That he is running this is hilarious to anyone remotely informed with the issue. Much of the staff believes that the newspaper has transformed considerably upon his watch. That some students are upset with him over individual stories shows that he has been making difficult decisions.

Georgetown students complain about how students don't matter. GUSA doesn't do anything, they complain. Here is an example of Georgetown students actually taking matters into their own hands, trying to change the status quo, trying to end the mediocrity that has so consistently plagued campus media at Georgetown (the mediocrity that the university is happy to have because it makes their lives easier), and it is automatically dismissed as a "debacle" -- this is the culture of student apathy and the mindset that keeps Georgetown from actually achieving greatness in higher education.

To say that the staff does not support independence is a blatant lie. The alumni community is fairly divided, with most 80s alums against and most 90s alums in favor -- the 90s alums had to deal with the bureaucracy of the media board and understand the institutional ceiling that thwarts excellence.

Georgetown is one of two newspapers in the Top 25 without an independent newspaper. What a shame.

There's little prior restraint (direct censorship), but there's also a media board that holds the purse strings and in the past has irrationally cut finances from the newspaper so that it has been forced to operate on bare bones infrastructure even when turning a profit -- a total disincentive as a business model.

The idea that the newspaper is destined to fail is the Georgetown mentality, tried and true. What else would you expect from an institution that's OK with mediocrity? This all makes me very sad too, CoolDC. Enough with the cheap shots against an editor who most administrators and students respect.

[DFW HOYA]

hoya3416 said:

To say that the staff does not support independence is a blatant lie. The alumni community is fairly divided, with most 80s alums against and most 90s alums in favor -- the 90s alums had to deal with the bureaucracy of the media board and understand the institutional ceiling that thwarts excellence.

There has been no communication with the overall alumni community on this. Why was this?

The same rickety database that can send invitations to anniversary dinners could have sent e-mails on this, but someone apparently chose not to.

[Gold Hoya]

I believe that most of the overall alumni community doesn't care.

Hoya alumni care (and most of us haven't received much information other than petitions and web links), but as The Hoya alumni website points out, Georgetown has failed to keep track of who we are and how to get in touch with us as a group. I am sure there are a few alums involved but a lot of us have either the business skills, the time, or both to help out with this effort.

[Joe Hoya]

Sounds like some kids don't want to get a real job after graduation, and think an independent Hoya might employ them after they're no longer enrolled.

The Hoya should worry about not sucking before it worries about becoming independent. The articles for the most part (and this is probably true for the other papers as well) are just poorly written in my opinion. One of the things that bugs me when I read articles is when a person is referenced for the first time solely by their last name. Introduce your characters, people. He is not "Smith," he is "John Smith, director of crap and things" when we first meet him. Also, the articles don't really flow very well; certain paragraphs that should be near the beginning of the articles are at the end, and vice versa. This stuff may not bug anyone else, but to me it just seems like symptoms of a crappy paper. Obviously I don't write for the paper, nor would I have done so in the past (partially because of the overall lack of quality), but you don't have to be a journalist or an English expert to recognize poor work.

[StPetersburgHoya (Inactive)]

Hmmm lots of interesting points here - Leavey bureaucracy has its own agenda and puts cielings and unnecessary restraints on groups. I'm not sure about this argument - TBird, 007, and anyone else in HB have you experienced any of these problems with Leavey?

[WiseyBum]

This is the first I’ve heard of this. The Hoya has reached out to me before about reunion-type activities, so they have the ability to at least survey their own alums. I find it a bit severe that they want to pursue independence and may be underestimating the risk/reward. When I was there in the mid-90’s, I don’t remember the media board cramping our style. I recall us having a solid internal compass of what to cover and what to leave alone.

I just hope their vision of a completely independent organization and its benefits are being weighed with what it means to run a full-time company. I also worked at the Corp, and maintaining that independent company was difficult. Especially for kids whose priority is going to school. The Corp was always plugging holes with our fingers and we never had the time to really get on top of running the business the way we wanted. And there is a lot of room for error with the Corp, which I don’t think the newspaper will enjoy (bagels and Snapple are always going to sell, advertising space is a much different animal). Autonomy could be pie-in-the-sky stuff that doesn’t run so fluidly in reality.

I just think that for a school without a major journalism program, it is just not necessary to pursue this. Is it really that oppressive being under the umbrella of the school?

There are bigger fish to fry. Bring back the Pub!

[TrueHoyaBlue]

wiseybum said:

There are bigger fish to fry. Bring back the Pub!

Here Here! (from someone who just missed the subpar Leavey Center version).

[HoyaTejano]

The rhetoric is so high because the stakes are so low, so to speak.

If it flops. it will flop spectacularly.

By the way, I do miss Snapple and bagels being breakfast, lunch and dinner.

[hoya3416]

dfw said:

hoya3416 said:

There has been no communication with the overall alumni community on this. Why was this?

The same rickety database that can send invitations to anniversary dinners could have sent e-mails on this, but someone apparently chose not to.

The Hoya hasn't been able to reach out to its alumni because the university has made it very difficult to do so.

The newspaper was able to contact its alums for the alumni gala because the university approved the gala -- including the funding for postage. The university will of course not allow newspaper funds to be spent on independence proceedings, so the money that the newspaper has raised for independence proceedings has been saved largely for meetings with counsel. And the university does not want to see competition for alumni support/dollars from a possible independent newspaper -- so attempts to get an alumni list, let alone send a mailing, has been difficult. It is something that the newspaper probably should have pursued harder than it did, but it had its hands full with the university.

Email news updates are probably the best route for now -- anyone who wants to be on the list should shoot an email to the editor of the paper ([e-mail]).

The fact that all Hoya alums haven't been contacted doesn't mean the staff doesn't care about what they have to say or how they might help.

[FormerHoya]

Personally, I think the Hoya will remain a second-rate rag until it is a daily.

Unless that has changed, then I should update my own rantings...

[DFW HOYA]

If the University has made it difficult to do so, it's also a self-inflicted wound as well.

As soon as the HOYA went online in 1998, there was an e-mail link set up for alumni to send addresses. Over the years, that list grew to contain hundreds of e-mails (per at least two different E-in-C's I talked to at the time) but the general response at the time was the paper either a) couldn't get to the names in a database, b) didn't have a bulk e-mail sender, or c) just didn't have time to train someone dedicated to the process. It was always a "summer" project that never made it to the fall.

One can argue with some credibility that e-mails from 2000-2002 aren't valid anmore and that's OK, although I was getting e-mails from the HOYA off and on through about 2003.

However, when all this is going on, something as simple as a text link off the "Hoya Alumni" page (which, ironically, still posts a story about donating money via Martha Swanson's office) to build a list. The other story on that page dates to Dec. 2003, so good or bad, well-intentioned or not, alumni news just wasn't a priority.

I'd say more about where this is all headed, but that's best discussed offline. PM or e-mail me to discuss this further.

[afirth]

hoya3416 said:

It's clear that cooldc is completely uninformed.

Independence negotiations have been in place for 2-3 years, dating to when Mendoza was a freshman and not involved in the paper. That he is running this is hilarious to anyone remotely informed with the issue. Much of the staff believes that the newspaper has transformed considerably upon his watch. That some students are upset with him over individual stories shows that he has been making difficult decisions.

Georgetown students complain about how students don't matter. GUSA doesn't do anything, they complain. Here is an example of Georgetown students actually taking matters into their own hands, trying to change the status quo, trying to end the mediocrity that has so consistently plagued campus media at Georgetown (the mediocrity that the university is happy to have because it makes their lives easier), and it is automatically dismissed as a "debacle" -- this is the culture of student apathy and the mindset that keeps Georgetown from actually achieving greatness in higher education.

To say that the staff does not support independence is a blatant lie. The alumni community is fairly divided, with most 80s alums against and most 90s alums in favor -- the 90s alums had to deal with the bureaucracy of the media board and understand the institutional ceiling that thwarts excellence.

Georgetown is one of two newspapers in the Top 25 without an independent newspaper. What a shame.

There's little prior restraint (direct censorship), but there's also a media board that holds the purse strings and in the past has irrationally cut finances from the newspaper so that it has been forced to operate on bare bones infrastructure even when turning a profit -- a total disincentive as a business model.

The idea that the newspaper is destined to fail is the Georgetown mentality, tried and true. What else would you expect from an institution that's OK with mediocrity? This all makes me very sad too, CoolDC. Enough with the cheap shots against an editor who most administrators and students respect.

Amen.

Anyone who's been on the Hoya Blue board long enough should know how much of a pain certain conflicts of interest are. We benefit from being a SAC organization, but The Hoya does not. Is the Hoya an incredibly boring, seemingly pointless newspaper at times? Yes. Does the fact that they're trying to do something about it and actually make it a worthy college newspaper legitimize their attempt to make it independent? Probably.

To quote their website, freethehoya.com, "It is a conflict of interest for The Hoya to cover student organizations for fear of administrative repercussions. A newspaper should inherently be free of any type of conflicts of ownership to the greatest extent possible, and it goes without saying that a newspaper that reports about the university should not be owned by that university."

If this newspaper is to truly represent the voices of ALL of the students, not just the ones approved by the bureacracy in Leavey, it is important that it be independent. I understand why many people on these boards would not care one way or the other about The Hoya having independence, since most people have other priorities, but if it's something they want to do, and they have the resources/means/capability/support, why not?

I also want to point out that all of the Ivy Leagues, and most of the other prestigious public and private universities....including Catholic ones, like Boston College and Notre Dame, have independent newspapers. If they can have an independent newspaper, despite a Catholic bureacracy, so should we.

Finally, the other independent organizations on this campus all seem to do just fine (The Corp, Mask and Bauble, GUASFCU, etc). There's no reason that an independent newpaper is completely unthinkable.