nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,674
|
Post by nychoya3 on May 8, 2006 15:54:32 GMT -5
The real question is where does Julia Baugher stand on this issue? After all, she is the biggest name to come out of The Hoya stable since, ummm, Clay Risen(?). On another note, looking at her website, I will never trust a publicity photo again. www.juliabaugher.com/
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2008 on May 8, 2006 16:35:24 GMT -5
I'm concerned with what the Hoya's independence will mean not only for the Hoya, but for other student groups.
First, I foresee the Hoya having problems with recruitment. Many of my friends write for the Hoya and I know that many of them, including more than one editor, have expressed to me that they will not be following the Hoya to its new M Street location; it's simply too inconvenient, unlike the current Hoya office, which most students probably walk near to without even realizing it every day.
When the new Freshmen come on campus, they may also be hesitant to make the trek if the Hoya isn't allowed to stay on campus. Advertising revenues could also fall as the Hoya divests from the University and is no longer an "official" paper. Plus, the Hoya might have to give up its name and will almost definitely have to give up its symbol.
Then there's what this means for the rest of the Georgetown journalism community. The Hoya's profit, at the end of the year, is reinvested to pay for the Voice and the Independent; those two papers have never made a profit and might not be able to stay afloat past next year. Realistically, the sudden draining of $50,000 from the Media Board's budget will require the Funding Board to cut the budgets of SAC, VPS, the Performing Arts Advisory Committee, and the Advisory Board for Club Sports. End result? Every student activity on campus will have its budget cut next year, one of the other papers may be liquidated, and there might be a freeze on all new student clubs. (Depending on whether the University decides to keep the profit that the Hoya has made this year, the cuts may not come into effect until the year after next.)
Then there's the general trend that the Hoya has been following in the last few years. I've spent a good amount of time in the stacks in Lauinger looking through the last 80 years worth of old Hoyas (for fun and for projects) and I can tell you that the Hoya has really gone downhill, although it still has good writers and some good editors. Even within the last five or six years, according to administrators with which I've discussed this and who have been here for decades, the Hoya has seen its focus go from campus news to Greater Georgetown Community and DC news. Having read through the Hoyas of the 90s, I found that the Hoya really did use to be the Newspaper of Record for this University. Nowadays, campus news takes a backseat and the Hoya writes its articles based on broadcast emails and (in several instances with which I'm personally familiar) even this very talkboard!
I'm all for the Hoya's independence in spirit. I'm all for free speech and an independent press. However, those ideals can become noxious if they take themselves too seriously to the point that they start to strangle what this University and what the Hoya are supposed to be about. The Hoya is another extracurricular -- it's a club, one where aspiring journalists or journalism enthusiasts can sharpen their skills and meet each other. It's also a major source for students of news about what's happening on campus. But, is Hoya independence necessary? Will the University suddenly start screwing over students blatantly if the Hoya isn't allowed to reinvest its $50,000 in profit? Does, in short, the University need an independent student newspaper? No.
It'd be nice, yes, but it isn't necessary, and the way in which it's being done seems rash and inappropriate to me since, as far as I know, members of the Hoya's board haven't been discussing independent with their fellow students outside of the Leavey Fourth Floor.
I encourage the Hoya to publicly address the concerns I've raised here as well as the ones that are swirling around on campus. As it is, the student experience as a whole might be damaged by overzealous students chasing an ideal.
|
|
afirth
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 289
|
Post by afirth on May 8, 2006 20:50:58 GMT -5
I believe the new offices are somewhere near 35th and M street. I think if the crew team can make it all the way to their incredibly-far-away boathouse, ROTC can make it to GW, and other activities can travel incredibly far for their meetings/events, walking literally 2 to 3 blocks from campus is not going to kill people. People who live in Darnall/Henle may be closer to the Leavey location, but people who live in Village B/LXR will be closer to the 35th and M street location. Is this really the issue here? It's not like The Hoya is moving to Dupont.
Second, the possible difficulty in recruiting people because of the change in location will probably be offset by the possibility of editors being paid. While I understand that being paid to "participate in a club activity" is probably a strange concept to many, the fact is that editors at most other independent college newspapers DO get a salary for the amount of work they do. Editors for The Hoya work over 30 hours a week at times (about 3 times what the average Corpie works), and if they knew they were going to be compensated for their work, I don't see them leaving the newspaper.
Third, several people have noted that Georgetown doesn't even have a jouralism major, and that an independent newspaper shouldn't be a priority at a school where a major for such work doesn't even exist. Several schools without journalism majors operate independent newspapers - including Harvard and Stanford (Stanford has communications, but not journalism.)
Additionally, just because Georgetown doesn't have a solid journalism major or program in place now does not mean one is never forseeable in the future. The Program for the Performing Arts has come an incredibly long way in the past few years, and while majors are currently only available in Studio Art and Art History, the Theater department is posed to offer a major for the first time next year. Georgetown is constantly expanding its offered programs and opportunities, so I don't see why not having an established journalism program or major is an issue here.
I also don't really see the problem with The Hoya reporting on things besides what happens on campus. If you look at any of the other great school newspapers, they are reporting on things that happen on campus as well as the world around them. Is The Hoya really not supposed to report on matters like the Darfur protest last week because it didn't take place within our front gates? We live in an incredibly vibrant and exciting city, and Georgetown as a campus is influenced tremendously by it's Washington setting. There's no reason why The Hoya cannot write about things that don't pertain 100% to Georgetown University, as long as it still does a good job of campus coverage.
Finally, the issue of financing the other SAC organizations is admittedly an issue. And as I do not work for The Hoya, I don't know what kind of plans they have developed. However, ever since The Hoya’s board of directors and board of editors voted to approve the move to independence last spring, they HAVE met with student leaders, faculty senators and university administrators to make the newspaper’s case for independence. Let's at least see what financial plans they've come up with before the move to independence is dismissed outright. I highly doubt that The Hoya wants to "screw over" the rest of Georgetown organizations; they know very well they'd lose their campus support and would be an ineffective newspaper.
All I'm saying is, let's not jump to conclusions about the likelihood of this succeeding before we know all the facts. The Hoya should provide a more detailed explanation of how they plan to achieve their goals financially, and I'm sure in the upcoming months they will be able to do so.
|
|
|
Post by TrueHoyaBlue on May 9, 2006 9:01:26 GMT -5
Just curious, because I really have no insight into Media Board finances, but this $50,000 figure has been thrown around on this thread, and I was wondering where it came from. And if it is a "legitimate" figure, does it include the fact that things like capital expenditures, office space and equipment are covered outside of the Hoya's budget?
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,777
|
Post by DFW HOYA on May 9, 2006 12:06:30 GMT -5
Just curious, because I really have no insight into Media Board finances, but this $50,000 figure has been thrown around on this thread, and I was wondering where it came from. And if it is a "legitimate" figure, does it include the fact that things like capital expenditures, office space and equipment are covered outside of the Hoya's budget? The HOYA can clear $50K, sometimes much more, as a result of advertising revenues which covers all annual and capital expenditures. Part of what is at issue in this dispute is that, for the most part, any surplus The HOYA earns is largely redistributed to the Voice, et al. instead of being invested in its own future. And as long as The HOYA continues to bring in the surplus, there is less of an impetus for the Voice, et al. to really get their finances in better shape. I do not agree with the tactics employed by the current staff, but I understand the environment that led to this.
|
|
|
Post by AustinHoya03 on May 9, 2006 12:12:50 GMT -5
There is no real "problem" with the HOYA reporting on goings-on outside of campus. However, I regularly pick up a copy of The Daily Texan and I almost never read the national/international coverage. The articles are simply inferior to most anything printed in my local paper. Even if my local paper sucked, I would probably read the national newspapers online before I read the Texan's coverage of world events. I read my campus newspaper solely for campus news, Longhorn sports news, and nothing else. I guarantee I am not the only one. So why does a college newspaper even bother with writing articles about Iran, Iraq, or the federal defecit? I think the answer is probably that most college newspapers are mainly pre-professional incubators for would-be journalists. A writer for the Texan can show off his many articles on Tom Delay's ethics investigations when interviewing for a job with the Houston Chronicle, while a Georgetown writer has a collection of vanilla articles such as "New Poll Ranks MSB 13th in Nation." (Of course, campus stories don't have to be dull, but the HOYA continues to report only on stories that "fall into its lap," rather than the interesting investigative stories found in the Voice.) In other words, national news articles in campus newspapers are written mainly for the benefit of the writers, not the benefit of the community. Extending that argument to the entire Free The Hoya movement, I think that's what's really going on here. There are many people at the newspaper who want to go on to professional careers in journalism, and they are acting to make the HOYA a better vehicle for obtaining such careers. I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with this -- many of my friends were editors at the HOYA and have gone on to successful careers in journalism, and they generally support the independence movement. At the core of this movement is not better reporting or financial independence, it's obtaining more utility for the HOYA's employees, through higher paychecks and (supposedly) a more professional paper that will make writers and editors more attractive to prospective employers. Obviously, this could turn out to be great for the HOYA, but it's a loss for the campus community. The HOYA takes its money with it and, barring a major change in editor's attitudes, coverage of campus news and sports will continue to lag. And if an independent HOYA fails, think about where that leaves the University.
|
|
hoyaLS05
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,652
|
Post by hoyaLS05 on May 9, 2006 12:47:35 GMT -5
(Of course, campus stories don't have to be dull, but the HOYA continues to report only on stories that "fall into its lap," rather than the interesting investigative stories found in the Voice.) In other words, national news articles in campus newspapers are written mainly for the benefit of the writers, not the benefit of the community. First off, can you point out an investigative news story in The Voice? Keep in mind, this is a newspaper that publishes half as often and printed a cover with a HUGE headline that said “ The The Story About….” Do you really want to debate The Hoya vs The Voice? Secondly, the idea that national news articles are written solely for the benefit of the writers is the biggest joke I have ever heard. As someone pretty familiar with, though not involved in the news process at The Hoya, I can say pretty unequivocally that that is incorrect. However, not to seem like I am attacking you, the general sentiment that the newspaper needs to improve, significantly, especially if it is independent, is a good and valid one. But, do you have any actual suggestions, or is it just something you need to see to know its better?
|
|
|
Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on May 9, 2006 12:51:25 GMT -5
Just so everyone knows, I am a friend of someone on the editorial board of The Hoya - things have apparently gotten nasty - The Hoya is going independent and the school is taking its name - so it will be known from next year on as "The Hilltop"
|
|
GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,083
|
Post by GUHoya07 on May 9, 2006 13:53:17 GMT -5
I can't believe the name will be changing. I don't even want to get involved in the argument about indepence, if the paper loses its name I'll be extremely dissapointed. The name The Hoya is so tied to the paper that I really cant imagine it being called anything else. Id much rather have it remain The Hoya than be independent.
|
|
FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
Posts: 4,544
|
Post by FLHoya on May 9, 2006 14:28:16 GMT -5
I can't believe the name will be changing. I don't even want to get involved in the argument about indepence, if the paper loses its name I'll be extremely dissapointed. The name The Hoya is so tied to the paper that I really cant imagine it being called anything else. Id much rather have it remain The Hoya than be independent. Now THERE'S a little of the old Kurt that I know and love coming out again...YEEHAW!! I do find the name "The Hilltop" slightly amusing, in that the paper's new offices are in fact moving much further down the hill from where they used to be.
|
|
|
Post by jerseyhoya34 on May 9, 2006 14:31:01 GMT -5
There's a little of the old Kurt, with a little Segner mixed in with the "indepence" reference.
|
|
|
Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on May 9, 2006 14:33:33 GMT -5
Don't you accuse him of being like Segner.
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,777
|
Post by DFW HOYA on May 9, 2006 14:33:41 GMT -5
There's a very strong likelihood "The HOYA" publishes on campus next year.
|
|
nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,674
|
Post by nychoya3 on May 9, 2006 14:34:31 GMT -5
What are the stakes though, really? The lifeblood of the Hoya - and any other student publication - is the number of smart undergrads who are willing to go without sleep for days on end and come perilously close to flunking out to get the damn things published. There's a lot less labor that goes into laying the things out and printing them then there used to be.
Point is that there will always be a Georgetown student newspaper. Honestly, The Hoya has kind of sucked for as long as I've read it, and that has encompassed the tenures of several people who I know to be ultra-bright. So maybe the problem is cultural - bad habits and sloppy editing that are passed down from staff member to staff member. And if The Hoya or The Hilltop blows up in a cloud of smoke, maybe the products that emerge will be better for having started from ground zero.
Anyway, The Simpsons covered this pretty well. "It's the Barney Bugle. Though it's mostly culled from wire services."
Finally, I really thought a Julia Baugher post would get a rise out of SOMEONE. Damn you people.
|
|
|
Post by saxacalhoya on May 9, 2006 14:40:46 GMT -5
Just so everyone knows, I am a friend of someone on the editorial board of The Hoya - things have apparently gotten nasty - The Hoya is going independent and the school is taking its name - so it will be known from next year on as "The Hilltop" If by nasty, you mean the kids asked a question and didn't hear the answer they wanted ... then I agree with you. Otherwise, As Public Enemy said: "Don't believe the hype!"
|
|
afirth
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 289
|
Post by afirth on May 9, 2006 15:10:02 GMT -5
Maybe they'll change it to The H*ya instead. That would be fun to explain to prospective students....
|
|
hoyaLS05
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,652
|
Post by hoyaLS05 on May 9, 2006 15:10:20 GMT -5
There's a very strong likelihood "The HOYA" publishes on campus next year. Understand? Just so everyone knows, I am a friend of someone on the editorial board of The Hoya - things have apparently gotten nasty - The Hoya is going independent and the school is taking its name - so it will be known from next year on as "The Hilltop" On a board that seriously seriously seriously frowns upon speculation and unsubstantiated information from unidentified sources, all of this new name stuff and new-THE HOYA crap comes seriously close to pure and utter fiction. No one knows definitively what is going to happen — not even The Hoya who is still working everything out — so to say that not only is the newspaper going to leave, but that its going to lose the name and then have to compete with a new version of The Hoya is pretty inappropriate. At least that’s how I see it.
|
|
KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,900
|
Post by KHoyaNYC on May 9, 2006 15:13:01 GMT -5
I'm still not clear on the arguments against the Hoya going independent. Is it the fact that they want to be independent or the manner in which they are going about doing it? On the flipside, wouldn't a move like this be bad PR for the newspaper? Too much to risk?
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on May 9, 2006 16:30:38 GMT -5
There's a very strong likelihood "The HOYA" publishes on campus next year. Understand? Just so everyone knows, I am a friend of someone on the editorial board of The Hoya - things have apparently gotten nasty - The Hoya is going independent and the school is taking its name - so it will be known from next year on as "The Hilltop" On a board that seriously seriously seriously frowns upon speculation and unsubstantiated information from unidentified sources, all of this new name stuff and new-THE HOYA crap comes seriously close to pure and utter fiction. No one knows definitively what is going to happen — not even The Hoya who is still working everything out — so to say that not only is the newspaper going to leave, but that its going to lose the name and then have to compete with a new version of The Hoya is pretty inappropriate. At least that’s how I see it. Yeah, see, the thing is--this board doesn't frown upon speculation, or even unsubstantiated information in general. It's the speculation and unsubstantiated info about Georgetown student-athletes (or coaches) leaving that is frowned upon. So on that note, I think that if/when the Hoya loses its right to be the Hoya, it should trade names with the Independent. So there'll still be a Hoya (007 will be happy!), and the former Hoya will be much more aptly named.
|
|
|
Post by saxacalhoya on May 9, 2006 18:04:44 GMT -5
No one knows definitively what is going to happen — not even The Hoya who is still working everything out — so to say that not only is the newspaper going to leave, but that its going to lose the name and then have to compete with a new version of The Hoya is pretty inappropriate. At least that’s how I see it. The editorial board has been told that they don't get to keep the name. That isn't changing. And frankly, all DFW was pointing out is that there is nothing to stop another group of students on campus from starting a student publication and requesting to use that name. Not saying it will happen, but it is possible since the University is retaining the name.
|
|