MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Nov 1, 2007 9:48:10 GMT -5
i love the college game as much as anyone, but the best college team in the nation would get absolutely thrashed by the worst nba team. </rant> That's because the quality of PLAYER, not quality of playing style or strategy. The athletes are obviously better in the NBA. And the teams that win are the ones who I think play a more college-style game (Phoenix, San Antonio, NJ some years ago). There is no such thing as a "more college-style". That's a myth that's tossed around by college fans and NBA detractors. There are so many different styles of ball played in college there is no one style or even a "more college-style" either.
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Post by Hoya TMF on Nov 1, 2007 9:48:28 GMT -5
This isn't an NBA problem, it's a big time basketball problem. And actually its a unique problem that's exacerbated by being a Georgetown fan under JTIII. In the last three years I've found it excruciating at times to watch other teams, pro and college, play. Take a look at Memphis or Louisville this year. Take a look at St. John's or Kansas State or even Kansas this year. Very few "good" teams run any offensive sets at all, let alone those as precise as Georgetown, Princeton, Michigan (under Beilin) or a few others. Most college and pro teams give the ball to their best player and sort of wait something to happen, either isolation in the post or isolation on the wing. Players don't cut when they should or make an extra pass to get the best shot possible. I can't wait till the season starts; Georgetown really does put on a basketball clinic when we are playing our best. Go Hoyas!!!! Hoya0206 (formerly HoyaTMF, but my login info couldn't be salvaged)
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Post by youngjeezy on Nov 1, 2007 9:53:52 GMT -5
That's because the quality of PLAYER, not quality of playing style or strategy. The athletes are obviously better in the NBA. And the teams that win are the ones who I think play a more college-style game (Phoenix, San Antonio, NJ some years ago). are you really suggesting the strategy level in the nba is lower than in college? if that's the case, then why do most college coaches fail when coming into the league? why is it that don nelson can get the warriors to play effectively while mike montgomery tanked? coaching and strategy matter in the nba. are there bad teams in the nba? of course, just like there's bad teams in any other league - professional or college. good teams play good team basketball - college or pro. the spurs don't play "college ball", they play good team basketball. exactly. just because they play as a team instead of as a couple of superstars doesn't mean they're playing "college ball". these coaches should be devising new offensive and defensive styles all the time, especially in every offseason. i mean, where else are you gonna see a 6'10" shooting guard? it's the first game for a bunch of guys who've never played an NBA game together before. they're not expected to be that great anyway this year, so it's all about developing some team chemistry and figuring out roles for everyone while also getting jeff and kevin acclimated to the NBA. hmm... a team that starts slow and tries to develop chemistry... sounds like another team i know, a little closer to home...
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Nov 1, 2007 10:08:33 GMT -5
Agreed. But good team basketball is at least more similar to the college game than the "Give it to the star who puts down his shoulder, sprints at the basket, and prays for a foul" kind of play. I was actually fairly impressed with Denver last night. AI looked like a more complete player than you ever saw in Philly, and it's because there was a team with a team offensive strategy. Bingo. Actually AI had good coaches in Larry Brown and Jim O'Brien but Philly never had much talent on the offensive end of the ball. Not to say Iverson wasn't blameless because he did and still does jack up too many shots when, despite the lack of talented teammates, he would have always been more effective and efficient as a scorer if he passed more in order to keep the defense off guard. But most of the issues in Philly centered around not having enough players around him who could score or hit open shots. Which led to him jacking it up. But lets be honest in that AI always has taken a lot of shots even when he was playing "the more pure form of hoops known as college basktball."
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theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by theexorcist on Nov 1, 2007 10:12:24 GMT -5
For those of you who didn't know and hadn't figured it out yet, a game between a darkhorse title contender and a team that's probably going to move next year featuring two of the most iconic Hoyas of the last fifteen years is a total microcosm of all that is either wrong or right with the NBA.
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by bmartin on Nov 1, 2007 10:55:14 GMT -5
Jeff was in for 39 possessions - Denver 39, Seattle 38. Denver 81-65 in the other 67 possessions.
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by vcjack on Nov 1, 2007 11:08:12 GMT -5
What people have to realize that the Sonics are NOT A GOOD NBA TEAM. Its young and still needs to mesh but this year they will struggle to find wins, but they still have the horses to hang with better teams like Denver. However, if Jeff and Durant and some of the better pieces stay together (like Delonte West), they might be ready to be a competetive team as early as next year. Give them time, Jeff will show his stuff.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Nov 1, 2007 11:09:55 GMT -5
Jeff was in for 39 possessions - Denver 39, Seattle 38. Denver 81-65 in the other 67 possessions. Even though there are so many variables this isn't really that significant, I think we can all agree that we want you to present a similar summary on every former Hoya for every game. Thanks!
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by bmartin on Nov 1, 2007 11:15:04 GMT -5
Jeff was in for 39 possessions - Denver 39, Seattle 38. Denver 81-65 in the other 67 possessions. Even though there are so many variables this isn't really that significant, I think we can all agree that we want you to present a similar summary on every former Hoya for every game. Thanks! This stat was the best way to show the defensive difference when he was in the game.
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nodak89
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Roy Roy Royyyyy!!!
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Post by nodak89 on Nov 1, 2007 11:19:34 GMT -5
Jeff was in for 39 possessions - Denver 39, Seattle 38. Denver 81-65 in the other 67 possessions. With JeffSeattle points per possession=1 Denver ppp=1 Without JeffSeattle ppp=1 Denver ppp=1.25
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Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
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Post by Cambridge on Nov 1, 2007 11:24:29 GMT -5
Yep - people have to realize that sometimes, the athletes are actually too good to be as entertaining. See Men's tennis. But, the NBA could stand to have more passing and less dribbling. See FIBA for how to do it, or the Suns, or any othe rnumber of entertaining teams. Hell, see the Nuggets. They put on a clinic on fast break, drive and dish basketball. Iverson and Melo are scary good together.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Nov 1, 2007 11:34:53 GMT -5
Even though there are so many variables this isn't really that significant, I think we can all agree that we want you to present a similar summary on every former Hoya for every game. Thanks! This stat was the best way to show the defensive difference when he was in the game. Provided the other nine players in the game were the same, every player attempted to maintain the same style of play (i.e. nobody picked up another foul, altering their aggression, etc.), coaches called the same sets, and referees were consistent. In otherwords, if Jeff was the only difference, then yes. It's neat to look at, and may be the best way to illustrate the difference you pointed out, but still doesn't mean too much (to me at least).
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by bmartin on Nov 1, 2007 12:30:33 GMT -5
The points per possession stat simply verified what I said earlier - Seattle got stops only when Green and West were both in the game. If you watched the game, the glaring thing was how many uncontested shots Denver had in the first and fourth quarters.
Jeff contested shots and helped on D.
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Dhall
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Dhall on Nov 1, 2007 12:53:42 GMT -5
Much of the criticism of the "NBA game" can probably be viewed as a result of having a shot clock at only 24 seconds. When there is a chance to get a shot, you need to take that shot. Jeff must adjust to this. It doesn't mean that there isn't enough time to pass the ball or work to an open spot on the floor, but things just happen quicker given the shot clock. If Jeff can get his feet wet by playing solid defense and not making mistakes, then he can expand his offensive game in due course throughout the season.
I thought Iverson was absolutely fantastic and it was worth staying up for that.
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by kghoya on Nov 1, 2007 12:58:51 GMT -5
I thought Iverson was absolutely fantastic and it was worth staying up for that. exactly the reason i continue to order the nba league pass...
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balla
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by balla on Nov 1, 2007 13:21:13 GMT -5
I enjoy my league pass. There are usually 2-3 great games a night. This also allows me to avoid watching ESPN. Although I did watch the games on ESPN last night, and I must say at least their production has improved. You can't go wrong with Hubie and Van Gundy as analyst(self-righteous Mike Brea sux). Lisa Salters is a majore upgrade over whoever they were using. Now if they could just get rid of Bill Walton, their studio show might be watchable. Of course TNT is the platinum standard for any sports production, so it is tough for ESPN to compete. On the bright side ESPN is dying a slow death, which is thoroughly enjoyable. I hope ESPN continues with the poker and the "baby Limbaughs" (Bayless, Mariotti Cowherd, Graig James, Gottleib...).
As for Jeff, he and Durant are both small forwards. Although I like when Seattle goes small, Jeff can hold his own at the 4. Eventually Jeff will get traded somewhere that allows for more minutes at the 3 spot, and he will flourish. He did have a sprained ankle and wrist, and was not even supposed to play.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Nov 1, 2007 13:24:34 GMT -5
Jeff looked about as good as I thought he would: looked solid on D (especially the blocks and the time he forced AI - one of the quickest in the game's history - off his drive and into a low% shot), reasonably good passing and movement, a bit timid while he learns the offence, and lots of intangibles but not big numbers. One thing he needs to work on: hitting FTs.
What a pleasure to watch AI and JG go head to head, though! Denver is stacked. The Sonics will be fun to watch too, with the notable needed improvements other posters have suggested.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 1, 2007 13:28:12 GMT -5
I enjoy my league pass. There are usually 2-3 great games a night. This also allows me to avoid watching ESPN. Although I did watch the games on ESPN last night, and I must say at least their production has improved. You can't go wrong with Hubie and Van Gundy as analyst. Now if they could just get rid of Bill Walton(self-righteous Mike Brea sux), their studio show might be watchable. Of course TNT is the platinum standard for any sports production, so it is tough for ESPN to compete. On the bright side ESPN is dying a slow death, which is thoroughly enjoyable. I hope ESPN continues with the poker and the "baby Limbaughs" (Bayless Mariotti). As for Jeff, he and Durant are both small forwards. Although I like when Seattle goes small, Jeff can hold his own at the 4. Eventually Jeff will get traded somewhere that allows for more minutes at the 3 spot, and he will flourish. He did have a sprained ankle and wrist, and was not even supposed to play. Jeff's not getting traded anytime soon. Sam Presti loves him, and given that trading for Jeff was Presti's signature move so far, he's not going anywhere. Seattle basically got rid of Lewis and Allen for him. Presti is widely respected so he will likely get plenty of time as well, even with an ownership change. Lastly, I think Jeff will flourish most at the 4. He's not Shawn Marion but that's the type of role he could play.
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Post by hoyaparanoia33 on Nov 1, 2007 13:34:01 GMT -5
I thought Iverson was absolutely fantastic and it was worth staying up for that. True that. One thing I noticed about AI: I think his line was 25 pts, 14 assists, 7 steals, 5 rebounds. Those are MVP numbers. I know its early, but if his teammates make shots, and we know that on occasion they can, he can be a 10 assist guy all season. Also, over at HoyaHoops.com you can read Tony's take on the game.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Nov 1, 2007 13:50:44 GMT -5
I thought Iverson was absolutely fantastic and it was worth staying up for that. True that. One thing I noticed about AI: I think his line was 25 pts, 14 assists, 7 steals, 5 rebounds. Those are MVP numbers. I know its early, but if his teammates make shots, and we know that on occasion they can, he can be a 10 assist guy all season. Also, over at HoyaHoops.com you can read Tony's take on the game. That will NEVER happen--and Iverson could AVERAGE those numbers--and still not get consideration for MVP. If Steve Nash did half of those numbers--he'll be the leading the MVP candidate or anyone of those Celtics dorks will get mention for simply bringing interest back to Boston. As for the game--it's Game ONE of 82---guys this isn't CBB and you dont' make judgements about teams/players in October/November. Otherwise the Lakers would've been the 3/4 seed in West last year. Jeff is on a team that has a logjam of players at one position-and it's a mess that Sonics will have to figure out--who they want to keep/who they can get most value in return by moving. Jeff's FT shooting has to improve--he was aiming, not shooting but that could've been nerves--hell his first 2 attempts it was almost if he had a "I'm actually in the NBA" look on his face. We really won't know what Jeff is capable of until Sonics fix their roster and get him more time. I like when he and Durant are on court together. As for Nuggets--everything you saw will be thrown out window once the most ignorant player in the league returns--JR Smith. That guy has no clue how to play the game, and is a moron. Jacks up stupid shots, doesn't play defense, commits turnovers about every other time he touches the ball, and is basically the most ignorant player I've seen in sometime. I'd love to see Nuggets acquire Sam Cassell--who has said he wants to finish up with Karl and eventually be a coach--he'd be a GREAT COACH too. Cassell would add to this team--and be it's 2nd best post player behind Martin--Nene is too inconsistent--but when in shape he's a beast to handle. Cassell would also bring someone who not only knows how to win/play late in tight games, but create more room for Anthony/Iverson to do their thing in halfcourt. Nuggets can play with anyone in West not named Spurs--so they have to hope someone upsets Spurs in Postseason or avoid them until possible WCF. They are a tough matchup for Suns--because the Nuggets love that style of play and Iverson likes to destroy Nash head to head. Mavs would be tough--but I like the frontcourt of Denver against Mavs--although Camby is basically a rebounder/help defender--he's awful on the ball and a terrible offensive player. BTW--more Chris Paul hype then ever in league--YAWN.
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