royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,296
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Post by royski on Oct 31, 2007 23:39:46 GMT -5
Yes, I see the same thing. He's also not being found where he usually is cutting to the basket which is probably contributing to the disinterest. But I do like his work on D a lot.
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Nov 1, 2007 0:50:10 GMT -5
I'm not surprised, but Jeff looks almost bored with this kind of offense. That's not saying he's too good for it or the league (far from it). But it's so much less team-oriented, he seems out of sync. Just a lot of plays where's he's kind of lingering on the other side of the paint from where the ball is. Exactly. Sometimes he just looks lost out there. It's obvious he has the skill, but I think he just needs to mesh a little with the style of play more. I expect great things from him as soon!
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Post by michaelpittman32 on Nov 1, 2007 1:00:37 GMT -5
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pkhoya03
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 392
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Post by pkhoya03 on Nov 1, 2007 1:56:36 GMT -5
I've monitored Jeff's progress since he was drafted by the Sonics and I'm genuinely worried about his first season in Seattle. Particularly, his teammates don't seem to make the extra pass which Jeff usually does (one of the main reasons why I've never been a huge fan of the NBA). Durant and Wilcox stand out the most. On more than a dozen occasions, I've seen Jeff make a pass and continue to move w/out the ball while the aforementioned two would completely ignore their fellow teammates and do so some God-awful move only to heave up a low-percentage shot. It definitely is a far cry from the fluid beauty that Jeff has been accustomed to. Now I understand that Jeff isn't all about fame and glory, but it still gets me riled b/c A) it's the NBA, ppl are stupid and need to see good stats which he isn't aiming to produce, B) Jeff doesn't get any love C) it makes for horrible, selfish basketball, and D) Durant continues to shoot 30 shots a game only to make around 30% of them.
Yes, I know it's early and maybe the Sonic message boards and clueless fans have been getting to me, but I'm still worried that Jeff will get undeserved criticism as a result of a horrible offensive scheme and selfish teammates.
He does need to work on his FT shooting though. What the heck happened!?
Btw, does anyone else feel like a proud parent when tv announcers lavish praise on Jeff?
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SDHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,339
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Post by SDHoya on Nov 1, 2007 2:49:52 GMT -5
I tried watching this game. I really did. But after a few minutes, Jeff Green went to the bench, and I decided that hitting myself in the head with a hammer was more enjoyable than an NBA game. I just can't watch it. I echo the sentiments of some of the other posters, Jeff seems to be the only player moving off the ball, but no one is passing it to him, because, oh yeah, no one passes in the NBA. You give the ball to the "star", in this case Durant, he drives, and either tries to shoot or kick the ball out to a guard for a jumper. The same thing, every time.
Maybe they should change the NBA rules to the FIBA rules. I loved watching the FIBA America's championship USA team. They all worked together, they played defense, they looked much more like a college style basketball team. Maybe changing the rules would make the NBA interesting again.
Maybe instead of playing in Oklahoma City next year, Jeff should demand a trade to FC Barcelona or CSKA Moskva or something so that his style of team play might actually be appreciated.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,427
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Post by MCIGuy on Nov 1, 2007 6:34:50 GMT -5
^^Oh, brother. Not one of those "NBA is boring because they don't play team ball or pass as they do in college" with the added "the former college player that I root for looks out of place because his NBA teammates don't know how to play team ball" complaints. I guess I'm going to have to get used to seeing more of that stuff on these forums as new Hoyas join the professional ranks. But will people who make such comments remember to keep those same thoughts in mind when they see opposinng college teams take quick shots without much passing between teammates? Because I see it all the time but for some reason college bball fans never appear to notice that the college players aren't exactly coming close to playing the purest form of basketball either.
As for Team USA when it lost in the summer of 2006 it was playing good team ball but lost because of inexpereince and yet sports fans ripped the players' style of play. This past summer it wins playing the same style (this time with better players and more experience) and now the team is the model of how professional basketball should look? Go figure.
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Madgesdiq
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,434
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Post by Madgesdiq on Nov 1, 2007 7:53:35 GMT -5
^^Oh, brother. Not one of those "NBA is boring because they don't play team ball or pass as they do in college" I haven't watched a minute of an NBA game since 2001 when a lightbulb went off and I realized that it is entertainment, like the WWE or Barnum & Bailey Circus, and not sport. Unwatchable.
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Eurostar
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,094
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Post by Eurostar on Nov 1, 2007 8:14:36 GMT -5
I watched the first half last night. Jeff came in at the end of the first quarter and played until around the middle of the 2nd quarter. Thats when Seattle went on its run and went up by 7 or so. Their offense looked decent... they slowed the ball down in the half court a bit and were working jeff/wilcox inside and getting open looks from 3. Then Jeff went to the bench and the next 5 minutes were like kamikaze basketball on the offensive end. I'm not saying that Jeff stabilized things for them but... ok yeah thats what I'm saying. Their team is talented, and maybe it was the first game, but it seemed like they have too many guys that are just out of control on the offensive end. If they can calm things down a bit, make a few more passes and play in the half court a bit more instead of forcing like 2 on 4 breaks I think they can be very good.
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Hoya50
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 805
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Post by Hoya50 on Nov 1, 2007 8:22:10 GMT -5
the nba gets takes more potshots than any other professional league and i'll never understand it. carmello's fight last year makes headlines yet hockey players pummel each other on a nightly basis and that is considered a highlight. baseball players can juice up on the field and its no big deal. people used to complain that the nba was too slow, no one could shoot, they're all thugs. now that offense is back up it's no one plays d, they're still thugs. i really don't get it (actually, i think i do but i don't want to start a flame war). i watched the first half of the nuggets game and found it fairly entertaining. people say there's no passing in the pros? i don't know, iverson had 14 dimes including a sweet bounce pass to martin - maybe i'm just dumb. if you can't admire the skill in carmello's offensive game, then in my mind, you aren't a basketball fan. seattle's offense look a little disorganized? - IT'S THE FIRST GAME OF THE SEASON! jeez, give these kids a chance to mesh with each other.
i love the college game as much as anyone, but the best college team in the nation would get absolutely thrashed by the worst nba team.
</rant>
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Post by strummer8526 on Nov 1, 2007 8:24:26 GMT -5
^^Oh, brother. Not one of those "NBA is boring because they don't play team ball or pass as they do in college" with the added "the former college player that I root for looks out of place because his NBA teammates don't know how to play team ball" complaints. I guess I'm going to have to get used to seeing more of that stuff on these forums as new Hoyas join the professional ranks. But will people who make such comments remember to keep those same thoughts in mind when they see opposinng college teams take quick shots without much passing between teammates? Because I see it all the time but for some reason college bball fans never appear to notice that the college players aren't exactly coming close to playing the purest form of basketball either. As for Team USA when it lost in the summer of 2006 it was playing good team ball but lost because of inexpereince and yet sports fans ripped the players' style of play. This past summer it wins playing the same style (this time with better players and more experience) and now the team is the model of how professional basketball should look? Go figure. I never said every college team plays such a better brand of basketball. I think that MOST do. And Georgetown sure as hell does.
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Post by strummer8526 on Nov 1, 2007 8:26:44 GMT -5
i love the college game as much as anyone, but the best college team in the nation would get absolutely thrashed by the worst nba team. </rant> That's because the quality of PLAYER, not quality of playing style or strategy. The athletes are obviously better in the NBA. And the teams that win are the ones who I think play a more college-style game (Phoenix, San Antonio, NJ some years ago).
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,910
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Post by Filo on Nov 1, 2007 8:49:54 GMT -5
I wasn't able to watch the entire game, but was able to see much of it in spurts. I thought the game was entertaining and Jeff did fine. Compared to the pre-season, he looked much better on D. He does need to get into the flow of the offense more, as some have stated. Remember, whether you think it was warranted or not, he was criticized in the college game for not being aggressive enough and not looking for the ball. I honestly don't how much of his quiet offensive game is the result of teammates not looking for him and how much is on him. It was also the first real game of his NBA career! Perhaps some of the NBA gurus around here can chime in, since I am definitely not an expert on NBA play.
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Hoya50
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 805
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Post by Hoya50 on Nov 1, 2007 9:04:11 GMT -5
i love the college game as much as anyone, but the best college team in the nation would get absolutely thrashed by the worst nba team. </rant> That's because the quality of PLAYER, not quality of playing style or strategy. The athletes are obviously better in the NBA. And the teams that win are the ones who I think play a more college-style game (Phoenix, San Antonio, NJ some years ago). are you really suggesting the strategy level in the nba is lower than in college? if that's the case, then why do most college coaches fail when coming into the league? why is it that don nelson can get the warriors to play effectively while mike montgomery tanked? coaching and strategy matter in the nba. are there bad teams in the nba? of course, just like there's bad teams in any other league - professional or college. good teams play good team basketball - college or pro. the spurs don't play "college ball", they play good team basketball.
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Post by strummer8526 on Nov 1, 2007 9:11:59 GMT -5
Agreed. But good team basketball is at least more similar to the college game than the "Give it to the star who puts down his shoulder, sprints at the basket, and prays for a foul" kind of play. I was actually fairly impressed with Denver last night. AI looked like a more complete player than you ever saw in Philly, and it's because there was a team with a team offensive strategy. It was only the first game. Hopefully Seattle can utilize some more players, get Jeff involved, Durant calmed down and play a bit more of a coherent offense.
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,459
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Post by bmartin on Nov 1, 2007 9:25:44 GMT -5
Seattle only made stops when both Green and West were in the game. Jeff showed something last night. He was the best defender against Melo and even was able to guard AI and force him to take a bad shot or give up the ball. The NBA site has +/- in the boxscore. www.nba.com/games/20071031/SEADEN/boxscore.htmlJeff was -1, which means he would have been positive if he made a couple of those free throws. West was +14. Watson was -31. He had no answer for the Answer. Even though Wilkins and Wilcox scored some points, they were -20 and -19, because their defense was horrible.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Nov 1, 2007 9:31:43 GMT -5
hey about ai steppin in at the point and 14 assists go hoyas one and all
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,783
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 1, 2007 9:32:38 GMT -5
Jeff was the only post player who played defense last night. When Seattle was up, it was because the "second team" was in -- namely Jeff and West.
The NBA plays a fine brand of ball -- I think people are still stuck in the 1999 mentality. It has gotten much more watchable in recent years -- both teams last night played a team game much of the first half, and there's a lot of watchable teams now.
People need to give the Sonics some time. Wilcox is a ballhog and always will be, I think, but Durant will pass more as people get more comfortable.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,134
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Post by RBHoya on Nov 1, 2007 9:36:19 GMT -5
Totally agree Hoya50. A lot of people rag on the NBA and will no matter what. But no matter how you slice it, the NBA game is vastly superior to the college game. The reason why college ball looks crisper at times is because the level of athletecism on defense isn't there. Georgetown's offense looks great when we get a sharp backdoor cut for a layup. You don't see that happen all that often in the NBA though because the athletecism of defenders and the focus on help defense prohibit it. Defenders are much longer and much quicker, so they can switch and help much quicker and without sacrificing much. A lot of the sets you see in college simply wouldn't work in the NBA. It's the same reason that you can watch some college football teams or a good high school football team run the option and it looks great. So why don't NFL teams run it? Because the level of athlete in the NFL is just off the page and it would never work. There are good systems out there that can work really well in some settings, but when you're playing against world-class professional athletes, they don't work. That's why some of this "college-style" stuff just doesn't work in the NBA.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,783
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 1, 2007 9:43:24 GMT -5
Yep - people have to realize that sometimes, the athletes are actually too good to be as entertaining. See Men's tennis.
But, the NBA could stand to have more passing and less dribbling. See FIBA for how to do it, or the Suns, or any othe rnumber of entertaining teams.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,134
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Post by RBHoya on Nov 1, 2007 9:44:06 GMT -5
And on Jeff... just be patient. I already see it coming, Hoyatalk is going to do what we always do: we're going to blame Durant for shooting too much, we're going to blame PJ for not playing him enough and/or for "messing up" his game, we're going to blame the Sonics for not putting the right players around him etc. The same thing we do when any of our former players does not have success.
But just be patient. Jeff is a good basketball player who will have a long and productive NBA career. There is going to be a long period of adjustment, both to a totally new system/style of play, and to the overall level of competition that he is seeing (I caught a preseason game, and was amazed by how tiny Jeff looked next to a guy like Luke Walton, who I don't really think of as being especially big). He isn't going to light it up over night. Almost nobody can, even the best of rookies only have moderate success in their first year any more. If you thought that Jeff was going to come into the NBA and be putting up 15 ppg as a rookie just because he was the 5th pick in the draft, you either didn't watch him closely enough in college or are unfamiliar with exactly how high the level of play is in the league.
Just be patient. He will get there.
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