HoyaSox04
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Post by HoyaSox04 on Dec 9, 2004 11:22:22 GMT -5
Nope, you're completely right. This entire time, I've been writing about Sead. My silly mistake... I knew I was forgetting SOMETHING.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 9, 2004 11:25:27 GMT -5
Nope, you're completely right. This entire time, I've been writing about Sead. My silly mistake... I knew I was forgetting SOMETHING. Well, that explains things. I knew there must have been some explanation. Easy to get the two confused.
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HoyaSox04
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by HoyaSox04 on Dec 9, 2004 11:26:30 GMT -5
And no, you're assertion that DJ doesn't take bad shots is an OPINION. My OPINION is that he does. There are no solid facts behind your argument, so dont come attacking mine with blustering and posturing.
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Post by Fan Of The Game on Dec 9, 2004 11:35:26 GMT -5
And no, you're assertion that DJ doesn't take bad shots is an OPINION. My OPINION is that he does. There are no solid facts behind your argument, so dont come attacking mine with blustering and posturing. I hate to be "that guy" but have you actually seen the Hoyas play this year? Owens has missed a total of ten shots over four games. That's a fact. 2.5 missed shots a game. Not exactly Allen Iverson in the bad shot category...
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HoyaSox04
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Post by HoyaSox04 on Dec 9, 2004 11:51:52 GMT -5
No one, to my knowledge, has claimed he was that bad. I'm simply saying that my OPINION is that Ramell should be playing more. Heck, I think the actual starting 5 should be:
Wallace Ramell DJ Brandon Jeff
Granted, that leaves Brandon playing power forward which could present some bad matchups for us, but I believe that would be the best starting 5 we could put out there. But, seeing as Ashanti has to start, it comes down to DJ v. Ramell, in which case, I would choose Ramell. End of story.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 9, 2004 11:56:43 GMT -5
I like having Ashanti in the lineup because he's the only guard we have that actually gets to the line during games.
I don't think it is good to have a team that is lacking dimensions. We already are a team with poor penetration skills, and Ashanti has been our best penetrator.
I'm also curious to see who ends up being the best defender.
Illinois is going to be a huge test -- namely for Wallace and Ross who have never faced guards of this caliber. Hope they fare well.
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HoyaSox04
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Post by HoyaSox04 on Dec 9, 2004 12:16:31 GMT -5
I agree with you, SFHoya - I think tonight is going to be a great test and will definitely answer a lot of questions (and perhaps pose even more interesting ones) for the team and its fans. As for the team's best penetrator, I would have to say it's been Bowman - his first step against PSU was so lightning quick that it started opening up a lot more things offensively for us, ie: opening Jeff up down low, kickbacks to Wallace and Ashanti for open 3's... but I do agree with you that Ashanti does have some good talent on the offensive side of the ball.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 9, 2004 12:18:36 GMT -5
You're right about Bowman -- Brandon v a PF is a mis-match.
Ashanti is our best guard penetrator. Maybe Reed.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Dec 9, 2004 12:20:26 GMT -5
And no, you're assertion that DJ doesn't take bad shots is an OPINION. My OPINION is that he does. There are no solid facts behind your argument, so dont come attacking mine with blustering and posturing. Hey HoyaSox, here's a fact: For his career, DJ is 122-259 from the field, for a FG% of 47.1%. For someone who doesn't play in the post, that's a pretty freaking high percentage, and has been consistently above the team average (which for the last 10 years has ranged from about 37-44%). This leaves two possibilities: (A). DJ doesn't take a lot of bad shots. (B). DJ does take a lot of bad shots, but he gets a high percentage of them in, therefore, not making them bad shots, which leads us back to (A). You can argue all you want about what looks like a good shot to you, but if you take a look at it from a results standpoint, then you are resting on a very uneducated (and in my opinion unwarranted perception). I like Ramell, too. But you shouldn't need to fabricate an argument about bad shots to try to support your point.
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HoyaSox04
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Post by HoyaSox04 on Dec 9, 2004 12:29:01 GMT -5
"From watching the games, I truly believe Ramell is providing better defense than DJ does - DJ seems to get down on himself real easy when his shots arent falling and it affects him on the defensive end. Also, Ramell plays with more intensity than DJ does, an obvious plus on both sides of the ball. If you watch the games, it just seems like Ramell's court vision is better: in the offense, his cuts are sharper, his passes are better (although DJ has been very impressive in this area), and his awareness of the game just makes it seem like he is on a higher level than DJ. Dont have actual stats to point to this, but from watching, that's what it seems like."
This is my original argument. I may have strayed from that a bit to include the shot factor - I still do believe that he takes bad shots. Are 50% of his shots bad? No. Are 25% of them bad? Maybe. So, therefore, I'm saying that 50% of his missed shots are bad shots? Sounds about right. Could anyone/Ramell do better? Maybe. That's not my point. Defensively, I feel Ramell is better. Intensity-wise, I feel Ramell is better. Offensively, as a whole, I feel Ramell is better. Would we be in this position of guessing if Ramell hadn't been hurt for the last 4 years? No, I dont think we would have. I feel if this hadnt been the case, he would have been starting for us a long time ago. Keep arguing about the shots, its ok - its proving nothing.
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GUHoya07
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Post by GUHoya07 on Dec 9, 2004 12:34:28 GMT -5
No one wants to argue with you about the shots, its just that what you said doesn't make much sense. DJ barely shoots the ball at all, I think most of us would like to see him take a couple bad shots if it meant him actually showing some aggression and asserting himself. The biggest problem I have with DJ is that he has so much talent and yet he is so passive that he just fades in the background and never contributes some games.
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HoyaSox04
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Post by HoyaSox04 on Dec 9, 2004 12:39:21 GMT -5
I agree with you on the passion associated with DJ - it just seems he has NONE sometimes. And when he misses a shot, or commits a turnover, it affects his entire game. That's what is most frustrating, to me. The energy of the game just seems to be better when Ramell enters - which could be used to argue why its better if he comes in off the bench, which is fine. It doesn't matter to me who starts, I guess, it matters more who gets the most minutes, and right now, I can see Ramell getting more. I think JTIII has come to the same conclusion (see: Ramell's PT in 2nd half vs. PSU, Temple).
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HOYAPLAYA
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IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Dec 9, 2004 12:50:07 GMT -5
Now this part just comes across as bogus to me. If anyone on this team that has taken good shots consistently as well as looked for the extra pass consistently over the last two seasons it has been DJ. And frankly its not even close. In fact if there is a major flaw in DJ's game its his not taking enough chances and not being aggressive enough. Even worse is the fcat that often he passes up on good shots and simply passes the ball to a teammate who is not in any better of a position to shoot. But you will rarely see DJ take a bad shot. Hell, you will rarely see him take a shot at times. I have to agree with MCI. Most of us would like to see DJ take it to the hoop a little more and be more involved in the offense outside of 3-point shots and fast breaks. I don't think I've ever thought at any point in any game "Boy, I wish DJ would calm down and play within the offense a little more"
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 9, 2004 13:00:52 GMT -5
And no, you're assertion that DJ doesn't take bad shots is an OPINION. My OPINION is that he does. There are no solid facts behind your argument, so dont come attacking mine with blustering and posturing. The solid facts are that no one that I can recall before you came along ever thought that about DJ. Of all the complaints we have about Owens that one never came up until you pulled it out of your bag of tricks to hammer home your point concerning RaMell's oh so obvious superiority. But I guess the rest of us must have had those awful memories of seeing DJ take bad shots erased from our minds. Sounds like a conspiracy.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 9, 2004 13:03:05 GMT -5
I have to agree with MCI. Most of us would like to see DJ take it to the hoop a little more and be more involved in the offense outside of 3-point shots and fast breaks. I don't think I've ever thought at any point in any game "Boy, I wish DJ would calm down and play within the offense a little more" It would be a first if we did think of something like that after observing Owens. Then again maybe we have and memory of that has been wiped clean too. Ooooh the plot thickens.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 9, 2004 13:09:18 GMT -5
No one, to my knowledge, has claimed he was that bad. I'm simply saying that my OPINION is that Ramell should be playing more. Heck, I think the actual starting 5 should be: Wallace Ramell DJ Brandon Jeff Oh, now Cook who was our second leading scorer and a better threat beyond the three point line than Brandon GOING INTO the Penn State game should be kicked out of the starting lineup for Reggie Willams, er, I mean RaMell Ross. If only we could clone RaMell repeatedly. Then we be able to bench everyone besides Ross and win the whole thing. Thank God you ain't the coach. End of story.
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HoyaSox04
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by HoyaSox04 on Dec 9, 2004 13:16:33 GMT -5
Ah, touche MCI, touche. I forgot how smart a man you were. Let me kneel at your feet and beg for forgiveness for expressing an opinion - a justified one, at that. Well, I mean, if everyone was as smart as you, not only would Georgetown be winning the championship every year, but we would have a cure for AIDS and people's s%@* wouldn't stink. I think we should just clone you and make the world a better place. I know I'd be able to sleep safely at night, knowing you were there to save the day.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 9, 2004 13:17:38 GMT -5
Hey HoyaSox, here's a fact: For his career, DJ is 122-259 from the field, for a FG% of 47.1%. For someone who doesn't play in the post, that's a pretty freaking high percentage, and has been consistently above the team average (which for the last 10 years has ranged from about 37-44%). This leaves two possibilities: (A). DJ doesn't take a lot of bad shots. (B). DJ does take a lot of bad shots, but he gets a high percentage of them in, therefore, not making them bad shots, which leads us back to (A). You can argue all you want about what looks like a good shot to you, but if you take a look at it from a results standpoint, then you are resting on a very uneducated (and in my opinion unwarranted perception). I like Ramell, too. But you shouldn't need to fabricate an argument about bad shots to try to support your point. Post of the year. And by the way I was one of the posters excited about RaMell the most back in the day when the guy signed with GU (about ten years ago it seems). I thought he had much needed skills and scoring ability. The last few years I've been telling a buddy of mine who also follows the Hoyas that RaMell could be a key and every time he would roll his eyes because he was never convinced Ross could last more than ten minutes without getting hurt. So lets be clear that I think Ross could have been a starter if he hadn't gotten injured. He has size and a handle. His shot is awkward but it goes in. And if he keeps playing better than DJ then he will get more minutes (regardless of whether he starts or not). But until he plays some more games and contributes a lot more I'm not buying into the "theory" that he does more for the team than Owens and a superior player than Owens. It will take a whole lot for me to believe the Hoyas are a "much better" team with RaMell than with Owens as the original poster claimed. But I've been wrong before of course.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 9, 2004 13:19:03 GMT -5
Ah, touche MCI, touche. I forgot how smart a man you were. Let me kneel at your feet and beg for forgiveness for expressing an opinion - a justified one, at that. Well, I mean, if everyone was as smart as you, not only would Georgetown be winning the championship every year, but we would have a cure for AIDS and people's s%@* wouldn't stink. I think we should just clone you and make the world a better place. I know I'd be able to sleep safely at night, knowing you were there to save the day. You know that just could work and make the world a better place. Lets look into that.
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HoyaNJ5
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by HoyaNJ5 on Dec 9, 2004 13:46:12 GMT -5
I'd have to go with DJ. I like Ramell, but DJ is a better ballhandler, and when people press us, him and Ashanti are our best press breakers. DJ may not be assertive enough at times, but his ability to pass make him a very valuable asset. He definitely needs to step up though.
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