town05
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by town05 on Feb 26, 2007 21:31:14 GMT -5
bin, freshman earn their spots just like everyone else.
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Locker
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Locker on Feb 26, 2007 21:32:16 GMT -5
It may be true that Rivers can grow into the role, I just think he is our weakest link of all those who play regularly. And from what I hear, he won't play much starting next year. And I hear you don't know what you're talking about. Rivers was fine tonight.
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TahoeSkin
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by TahoeSkin on Feb 26, 2007 21:33:41 GMT -5
I take issue with all those that claim we were "acting like punks" tonight, or that we didn't have the "TYPE OF EFFORT/INTENSITY IS NEEDED." I won't address the former, as that is ridiculous. As for the latter, you must have been watching a different game. I though everyone was hustling and trying. We lost because we shot terribly, and turned the ball over. I blame 3 players for that.
J.Sapp 5-19 with 5 TO's J.Wall 2-19 with 4 TO's D.Summ 2-14 with 0 TO's
At some point you have to stop shooting when you're shooting as bad as these 3 were, but they kept jacking them up instead of feeding Roy or Jeff down low. It started early in the game, and continued throughout. So, I think we lost this game because of our perimeter players. They just were off tonight.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Feb 26, 2007 21:34:15 GMT -5
If Rivers played well on offense tonight, it must have been when I was busy throwing up in my mouth. He is WORTHLESS with the ball. He immediatley throws the rock back to whoever threw it to him. He makes the easy pass as soon as he can and he cannot shoot . LIABILITY. Only one guy played a good game...Ewing. There is more to basketball then just shooting--the problem is when the rest of the team can't hit anything--Rivers isn't going to go on a hot streak--although he hit a huge shot near end of 1st Half and it was really the only look he had that was clean--he was confident and pulled trigger and drilled it. Wallace's ball handling tonight was awful and Sapp played hard but made bad decisions with ball. Passing overall sucked from everyone. Roy's got to get more run at key moments--he's got to be allowed to fight through some of the struggles of his teammates--but part of that comes on his own too--there is an old rule for bigs-if you aren't getting the ball--hit the glass and you'll get plenty of opportunities--and on a night like tonight--III limited his chances by not playing him. When he was in--he was out of sync and just overpowered as were rest of team minus PE JR. III should've given Macklin some minutes if he was going to sit Roy tonight as well--he went with smaller lineup and Cuse just destroyed Hoyas on glass. Macklin is active--especially on offensive glass and his activitiy can create some plays. Last but not least--this was NOT a throwback game at all as the announcers said--this was a butt kicking that Pops, Esh, and now III have taken due to being outcoached, overhyped, and out of character. III has been outcoached by Boeheim 2 times in row and he seemed to be very out of sorts tonight in terms of his strategy and his demeanor. It's never about winning and losing--it's HOW you are playing--and the team is getting very sloppy with ball--which has to be shored up and if you are going to lose--you want to be playing good ball and have a team beat you--not give the game away due to being timid, weak with ball, and having your best players disappear and your second best player sitting due to you not using him. This isn't the time for "figuring things out"--it's time to bring your best ball and sloppy game tonight--hope it's the "Stinker" for rest of year and we see return to good ball-I never criticize a loss--they happen because you have to give opponents credit too, but it's how you lose/how you play that irritates me--tonight was a return to 2nd Half at Duke and Nova game--where Hoyas stunk up entire gym. That isn't going to get it done--and with a Big East Regular Season Title at stake, against your top rival? POOR from everyone involved in Blue and Grey.
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TahoeSkin
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by TahoeSkin on Feb 26, 2007 21:34:16 GMT -5
Rivers was NOT the problem tonight.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Feb 26, 2007 21:34:58 GMT -5
I HATE SYRACUSE
That said, let's shake it off and prepare for Saturday. Most of us had this game predicted as an L back in January (i'm looking at my fridge white board, with predictions/results back through the Seton Hall game and I had this as an L ... and every other game as a W except @ Nova, which we won .... spooky).
Important: We played poorly tonight, and Magoo's boys played well. The officiating was questionable for much of the game. We couldn't execute our offense, grab boards, pass, or shoot.
More important: We're 22-6. We're in charge of the Big East Conference. We face a big rival on Saturday. Shake it off, get Editeded, and prepare.
We win on Saturday, we win the BET. My humble prediction.
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757hoyafan
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Post by 757hoyafan on Feb 26, 2007 21:34:57 GMT -5
you can't satisfy everybody. tough L, but we'll be back.
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Post by mikeylikesit on Feb 26, 2007 21:36:12 GMT -5
If Rivers played well on offense tonight, it must have been when I was busy throwing up in my mouth. He is WORTHLESS with the ball. He immediatley throws the rock back to whoever threw it to him. He makes the easy pass as soon as he can and he cannot shoot . LIABILITY. Rivers is not a liability, he needs to get more comfortable out there. When he shoots, its butter (I wonder what his 3pt % is in league play). Recently, he has been the best with the ball (less turnovers then Jessie or JWall). I'm sick and tired of people blaming Rivers, its not his fault, its the whole teams fault. Give him more time and he will be great. I guess you are just forgetting that JTIII says that it usually take 1.5-2 years to get completely into our system. i don't know where this comment came from. rivers was 2-2 against cincy (WIDE OPEN) and he hit the 1 tonight. other than that, he's 0-6 from three in big east play and he only shoots 35% from the field. not exactly a large enough sample size to be making such bold declarations. as far as his ballhandling, he is pretty good, but he has a lot of trouble with the press and he doesn't really make great passes. he mostly just passes the ball around the perimeter and gives wallace and sapp a rest. true, he hasn't committed as many turnovers as wallace and sapp recently (and yes, they have to improve that), but he doesn't get the assists or points either. and as for the "give him more time" comment, next year he'll quickly be relegated to the 5th guard spot...and no offense, but he just won't be good enough to be a significant contributor in the foreseeable future. that being said, i don't blame him for anything tonight. just wanted to give my analysis.
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HoyaSC
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Post by HoyaSC on Feb 26, 2007 21:36:34 GMT -5
I'll get the officiating out of the way immediately because I don't want to make it the main point of my post. When Sean "Cuse Grad" McDonough starts pointing out non-calls in Cuse's favor and JTIII gets the first tech I can remember him ever getting, you have to believe the calls were bad. Hard to win when it's 5 on 8. But, having said that, we wouldn't have won 5 on 5 with the way we played tonight. I wrote in the pre-game thread that I was extremely worried about the quick turnaround and long travel. We were flat all night, and no one had any legs to shoot (hence the 31% FG). I don't think TC played in the final 8 minutes to provide a spark; I think our guards tired. RDF was right in that the only guys who showed any fire tonight were Rivers and Ewing, and not surprisingly, both did not play heavy minutes on Saturday. Roy and Jeff were completely ineffective, but it's the first time in awhile (especially for Jeff), so we can't really get on them for having an off night. I thought we passed well against the zone in the first half; the entry passes to the middle were crisp and we got a lot of good looks from 10-12 feet. But they took that away from us in the 2nd half, and once they started hitting 3's from everywhere, we couldn't keep up. Sometimes teams do that, and Rautins especially was launching from well behind the arc all night and you just have to tip your cap sometimes. Let's keep things in perspective here. We just tied the school record for BE wins in a row, will finish no worse than a tie for the best record in the league with a win on Saturday, and will be no lower than a 2 seed starting in two Thursdays. We went from barely getting any top 25 votes to a Top 10 ranking and Top 20 in the RPI, and almost assuredly a protected seed for the NCAAs. We have the nation talking us up like I have never witnessed before in my 6 years as a Hoya fan. We are still a damn good team with lots of talent and a coach who knows what he is doing. A loss was almost inevitable (it has been for every team in the country), and although this one stings more than most, we are still going to be OK when all is said and done. Think of it this way: someone just rushed the court after beating us. That's the first time I've ever seen that happen as a Hoya fan. THAT is how far we have come. A new streak is about to start. In the meanwhile, stay proud of our guys and staff and how far this program has come not only this year, but the last 3 years. Good post. I feel better now. One or three more beers, then some sleep, and then start thinking about beating UConn and capturing the regular season crown.
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TahoeSkin
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by TahoeSkin on Feb 26, 2007 21:36:57 GMT -5
Roy was playing ok. The guards were just too busy jacking up shots to get him the ball. It would have been a different game had we started focusing on our inside game.
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town05
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by town05 on Feb 26, 2007 21:37:03 GMT -5
This just makes UCONN more important. We'll lock that down.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Feb 26, 2007 21:37:19 GMT -5
bin, freshman earn their spots just like everyone else. Oh man I sure hope our frosh guards can earn a spot from the likes of Rivers...or people have been stretching the truth on how good they are. and for the record...i am NOT blaming this loss on Rivers. Its just bugged me all year how much PT he gets...RDF says there is more to basketball than shooting. What is Rivers doing besides throwing the ball to the most open guy on the floor- who is nowhere near near enough to shoot? What value is he bringing to the table that I am not seeing...I am willing to listen. But "rivers didn't lose this game" is not an arguement for why he brings value.
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Locker
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Post by Locker on Feb 26, 2007 21:42:18 GMT -5
Oh man I sure hope our frosh guards can earn a spot from the likes of Rivers...or people have been stretching the trugh on how good they are. Did Jeremiah shoot your dog or something? The venom is inexplicable.
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Post by vamosalaplaya on Feb 26, 2007 21:42:46 GMT -5
Syracuse had four starters back plus one of the top high school recruits in the country coming and were a consensus number three pick in the league. This is a team that has big time chemistry problems in spite of their enormous talent. GU caught them on a four game winning streak, on senior night, needing a win to make the NCAAs - probably more than this win- but a great recipe for Syracuse to suddenly find some chemistry for at least a game. They are a streaky team who got some good shooting from their streaky players.
Lots of things out there went wrong. But after watching the losses to Duke and Villanova this year, there isn't anything out there that can't be reversed with some rest and preparation.
I was at the BET when Cuse beat Georgetown, now that was bad. 10,000 Orange fans screaming on an ostensibly neutral court.
Would love to get these guys again in the BET. I think there would be a different result.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Feb 26, 2007 21:45:23 GMT -5
Oh man I sure hope our frosh guards can earn a spot from the likes of Rivers...or people have been stretching the trugh on how good they are. Did Jeremiah shoot your dog or something? The venom is inexplicable. Its not venom. Grow up. You are the one taking this too personally now. I just don't understand why he plays so much. I can't imagine he is that much better than Crawford to be getting double his minutes. Are you his boy or something?
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town05
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by town05 on Feb 26, 2007 21:47:42 GMT -5
bin, freshman earn their spots just like everyone else. Oh man I sure hope our frosh guards can earn a spot from the likes of Rivers...or people have been stretching the truth on how good they are. and for the record...i am NOT blaming this loss on Rivers. Its just bugged me all year how much PT he gets...RDF says there is more to basketball than shooting. What is Rivers doing besides throwing the ball to the most open guy on the floor- who is nowhere near near enough to shoot? What value is he bringing to the table that I am not seeing...I am willing to listen. But "rivers didn't lose this game" is not an arguement for why he brings value. Have you noticed his dribble? Do you think it's just a random thing that other guards give him space? How about how quick he is on the first step? I'm not a huge rivers fan (yet) either, but give him and jtreefiddy some credit... the kid has potential to be a solid sub, and we CLEARLY need the depth after tonight's display...
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TahoeSkin
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Post by TahoeSkin on Feb 26, 2007 21:49:15 GMT -5
I was going to post this morning how happy I was with our guard play, and how I thought Austin and Chris had an uphill battle trying to win a starting position. At the beginning of the season, I thought J.Wall was good, but he's turned into a pretty solid player. J.Sapp I thought was less than adequate, though lately he's really turned it up. Except for tonight, I've been pretty happy with those two. But I think tonight proved that we need a couple of back ups like Austin and Chris, who can push Wally and Sapp and take over should those two falter. It would have been nice to have seen Austin and Chris walk in and ease our shooting woes.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Feb 26, 2007 21:49:21 GMT -5
No frankly I have not noticed his dribble, because 80% of the time when he gets the ball, he throws hit right back before putting it on the floor. I don't know what space you are referring to, but he is never within 20 feet of the basket nor does he hold onto the ball for more than a second or three.
Am I watching different Hoya games? All the kid does is play hot potato. He passes to people who are not in good position because he looks frightened he is going to turnover the ball, which he is probably right about.
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Locker
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Locker on Feb 26, 2007 21:51:46 GMT -5
Did Jeremiah shoot your dog or something? The venom is inexplicable. Its not venom. Grow up. You are the one taking this too personally now. I just don't understand why he plays so much. I can't imagine he is that much better than Crawford to be getting double his minutes. Are you his boy or something? All the Hoyas are my home boys. I don't like to see individual Hoyas get dogged on a Georgetown message board, especially one who played better than most of his teammates on a wretched night. It's unseemly.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Feb 26, 2007 21:52:30 GMT -5
I completely disagree about Rivers being relegated to a bench player with arrival of new guards next year--he'll actually profit from them because Freeman is type of player who can play "SF" role if you have to and if next year's team is minus Jeff--you could very well see a lot of Roy/Macklin, Summers/PE JR at that spot, Freeman, Wallace/Wright, Sapp/Rivers. Rivers plays best defense of any guard we have right now when it comes to on the ball and he really gets a lot of nice boards--tonight he had about 2/3 steals too. His shot is looking far better then early in year when he was aiming it--and he's playing more like the kid I saw in Duke Game--First Half where he looked outstanding. He's got a bright future in this program.
As for UConn-they are going to provide an entirely different challenge and are going to be much tougher then many think--they are athletic, tough, and aggressive and we have to take game to them and not "respond" as Pops mentioned after Pitt game--Hoyas have tendency to let opponents dictate the game and how it'll be played--you have to take your game to them and force them to counter. Aggression should be there no matter what and often we wait for Patrick to get us going as a team--time to take it to other teams. It's part of a growth process as a program--and especially when you've been down as GU was, but it's next step and it's final hurdle to making you a Championship caliber program/contender.
It's going to be interesting to see how this particular group responds to this loss--do they get ticked off and come out firing and get back to playing good ball, or do they slide back into roles that we can't afford to see and I'm pointing finger at Jeff--he can't play as he did tonight for the last 10 minutes at all--or we're going to be not playing long in March anywhere--be it BET or NCAA. Shooting will be off, but the lack of poise was disappointing from such a smart player and he was baited and got caught up in Devendorf's game and it cost the team--1 pt behind to getting our butts handed to us. That was difference--he rushed everything--his shot, his passes, his flop was atrocious--just get back on defense and play ball and get a rebound!
I'm just anxious to see what III thought of this game--was it overhype/tension from kids or did he think he did a poor job? I assume he'll take some blame because I thought he added to the chaos we saw on court tonight--he was just out of sync and Hibbert being banished and then thrown in without a rhthym at all was just odd. It was bound to happen and great thing about rest of year is you win--you keep playing--you lose, you go home. If that's not incentive to get everything you have out of team, then we've been fooled by what we've seen. We'll bounce back but tonight was more about how we played--losing to Pitt was actually what got the team going--they played a fine game/2nd Half and battled and it jumpstarted things--this one sucked and need to get to work ASAP to make sure the bad/sloppy things don't continue to happen.
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