the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Nov 30, 2006 10:20:46 GMT -5
Oregon has better athletes? You are being ridiculous. We lost because we were outplayed, outhustled, and outcoached. We had 7 assists to 17 turnovers. WE shot 1-9 from three and we continue to let teams force us to play their game instead of the other way around. Our guard play is horrendous and JTIII and Esh should be ashamed that neither could get any guards worth a damn to come here and be on this team. Sure, we have good ones for next year, but I will have to hear about how young we are then. NEWSFLASH>>>ALMOST EVERY COLLEGE BASKETBALL TEAM IS YOUNG AS HAS NO SENIORS!!!!! Oregon is the better team. Why do you think G-town had those turnovers? lol. Why do think we shoot 1-9 from 3 point range? We can't shoot. When you can't shoot, and the other team forces turnovers, they are the better team. Oregon was better. Get over it. And by the way, the players that are gone and miss were Esh players (Cook, Owens, Bowman).
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,494
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Post by YB on Nov 30, 2006 10:21:29 GMT -5
hoyaboy- you stated what I am thinking. The thing here is that, if our juniors don't play well and don't lead, we get exposed because the young guys have swiss cheese-like holes in their games. A style of play that depends on high basketball IQ exposes those kinds of hold and rewards those who are multi-skilled... which is why when Jeff struggles, the team struggles. He's the best-rounded player on the team.
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JimmyHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Hoya fan, est. 1986
Posts: 1,867
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Post by JimmyHoya on Nov 30, 2006 10:22:31 GMT -5
We have a whole lot more potential than we do talent, thus the "young team" moniker fits, albeit a smidge bitterly with all of us.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,899
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 30, 2006 10:51:33 GMT -5
Oregon is not a better team. They played AWFUL. But they tried.
We crushed an almost identical Oregon team last year. This year, there was simply no effort on our team's part. We stood around, we lost every loose ball. We missed every layup. Our best player was a zero.
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,494
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Post by YB on Nov 30, 2006 10:53:08 GMT -5
Oregon is nothing but a bunch of short, undisciplined chuckers. We should have beaten them by 20. Instead, we gave zero effort on rebounding.... very disappointing. We lost to a VERY inferior team last night.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Nov 30, 2006 10:58:54 GMT -5
Oregon is nothing but a bunch of short, undisciplined chuckers. We should have beaten them by 20. Instead, we gave zero effort on rebounding.... very disappointing. We lost to a VERY inferior team last night. A VERY inferior team that we couldn't guard defensively or make a defensive stop even if our life depended on it. Even when we gave a 100% effort and got our ankles broke. A VERY inferior team that dictated the flow of the game and FORCED Georgetown out of there game and caused turnovers. Thats VERY interesting because I don't know what game you were watching.
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Oh My!
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 938
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Post by Oh My! on Nov 30, 2006 10:59:20 GMT -5
I would not label Coach's "young team" comments as excuses. They are fact. In any given game this year, we will start at least 2 people who got VERY limited playing time (or none at all) last year. Furthermore, Jonathan was not the "#1" PG on the team last year. To date, I feel he has done a tremendous job, especially last night with his aggressive drives through the lane. I do agree with the concern for turnovers, though. Finally, Roy is STILL only 19 years old. His age right now is the same as SEVERAL freshmen playing at other elite programs. If you think actual youth isn't an issue, you could be wrong.
Conversely, the "young team" comment doesn't appear to come from Coach that often. His more-utilized statement is that "We have to get better". To this end, he means EVERYONE in a jersey--age & experience aside.
He's right. WE HAVE TO IMPROVE.
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,459
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Post by bmartin on Nov 30, 2006 11:00:38 GMT -5
Oregon was quicker but not better. They created their own shots, but many of them were rushed, contested, low-percentage shots and that is why they missed a bunch. Georgetown could not take advantage of the matchups in its favor because Hibbert couldn't finish and Green didn't look to score.
This team will get better. They will "figure it out." JTIII takes the long view of preparing the team for the conference schedule and the postseason. Even at Princeton, his teams had some clunkers early in the season because he wants the players to "figure it out" and learn to make decisions and play off each other. "Figure it out" is a Carrilism from way back.
Most of those teams running up and down the court playing one-on-one will be the same in March as in December and will be knocked out of the tournament by teams that play as teams. Georgetown will be one of the latter.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 30, 2006 11:22:27 GMT -5
This (original) post is one of the worst in the history of this message board (at least since 2001 when I started to participate).
We DO have a young team. Whether you want to call that an excuse or just a fact, the reality is that we are having difficulty integrating young players into the system. That stinks, but it happens, and it doesn't mean that we were outcoached or that someone is screwing up. As fans, let's have faith in our team and show some patience.
Everyone wants the linear progression of the program to continue. It doesn't always work that way. I want this team to do well and be a national contender this year, but it might not happen this year, and it might not happen next year. As well as JT III has done, we must remember that building a program takes times. Often there are ups AND downs. Today we are down. If we beat dook on Saturday, we will be up. In the long run, that is not too important.
What is really important is the broader picture: we have quality coaches and players in the program now, and more quality players are coming in the future. Given time, Georgetown Basketball can accomplish a lot. I'd like it to happen now. But if it doesn't, I'm not going to freak out. And I'm certainly not going to attack the coaches and players who bust their tails everyday so us fans can enjoy following the Hoyas.
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Oh My!
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 938
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Post by Oh My! on Nov 30, 2006 11:23:30 GMT -5
Excellent post hoyalove.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,443
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Post by lichoya68 on Nov 30, 2006 11:26:10 GMT -5
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,443
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Post by lichoya68 on Nov 30, 2006 11:27:51 GMT -5
AGREE excellent post hoyalove.. high expectations too high need to find some consistant shots.. gohoyas beat duke
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SoCalHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
No es bueno
Posts: 1,313
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Post by SoCalHoya on Nov 30, 2006 11:39:47 GMT -5
I miss Ashanti.
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Dhall
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,679
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Post by Dhall on Nov 30, 2006 11:42:46 GMT -5
hoyalove making excuses for the excuses. now that's the worst post on record. I'll leave this thread after asking two simple questions:
- how are we young compared to other teams when 3 of our starters are 3-year starters? - how does the youth of some of our players prevent two All Big East type players from playing to their capability when those two All Big East performers had the ball in their hands at least 150 times combined last night?
Adios
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,494
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Post by YB on Nov 30, 2006 11:47:39 GMT -5
Dhall, no one is saying the youth affects Roy and Jeff. They have to play to par for us to be effective, no doubt. My point is that when they are not playing well, the youth really hurts us because there is no cover for the holes in their game.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Nov 30, 2006 11:49:43 GMT -5
Way, I think you made some excellent points but one thing I question is whether III is going to do the right thing next year--and that means play the talent that is coming--will Wright and Freeman get to start from get go when they prove they are superior on the court--from what I've heard they already have proven it when they run pick up with fellas at McDonough.
I'm all for "leaders" and "great kids" but TALENT wins games at this level and beyond. You can be an experienced guy and you can be an inexperienced talent--give me the talent and play it. Wallace is a kid who should definately get minutes--but Wright is going to be a weapon--he can shoot, make things happen, and has a pitbull attitude. Freeman is better than any perimeter player Georgetown has now or has had since Iverson/Page. Will these kids get to play immediately or have to "wait and learn system"?? That is only thing that irritates me to no end--"system"--There is only ONE SYSTEM that is effective-the one that WINS games. You can get there so many different ways and doesn't mean you have to run or walk the ball, but you have to be aggressive in your style of play and adjust it to talent the roster has--to play possession basketball with a team that can't shoot is stupid. III keeps saying these guys can shoot--but this isn't open gym or practice, it's a game and athletes on other side are talented, so you need guys who can do it against their peers and I get frustrated hearing about a team that is not built for the "possession game" trying to grind it out--get out and run and use the size to pound glass.
Coaches have to adjust their thinking too--not just players and this team isn't a traditional fit for the type of ball III likes to use--so he needs to adjust to them and quit forcing a style of game on them they can't succeed with. I realize it's early in year and his tenure, but if Chris Wright and Austin Freeman aren't starting from Day One on this team it better be due to vast improvement/production from kids currently on team and not due to "experience" or "kids needing to learn system". TALENT is 100 times more important then experience.
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Oh My!
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 938
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Post by Oh My! on Nov 30, 2006 11:54:32 GMT -5
"TALENT is 100 times more important then experience. " If that were true, I could be the CEO of Nike. I know I have the talent. So, when Phil Knight resigns, do I have a shot?
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,899
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 30, 2006 11:54:49 GMT -5
From what I've seen of Wright, RDF, he has tremendous talent, but if he thinks his style of jacking up 25 foot threes as soon as he comes upcourt (which he seems to do a lot) wins games in college, he's mistaken.
Summers started in game three. The freshmen are all getting burn despite less than two months of practice. I'd say that the freshmen next year will play if the team is better.
I don't think III is forcing anything on anyone. No one played with any intensity versus ODU or Oregon. Letting people jack up shots or freelance won't change that.
I could be completely wrong, but I really don't think III wants them to play slow down ball anymore. But he wants people to take good shots. For some reason, our best players aren't aggressive in any aspect of the game. Maybe it is because III wants them to read and react and they don't know how to read quickly yet. That explains the frosh, but it certainly doesn't excuse Jeff and Roy.
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,494
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Post by YB on Nov 30, 2006 11:57:39 GMT -5
RDF, I have to question you here.
We all think the current freshmen have talent, right? They were highly ranked, etc etc. But what have they shown us? Squaddoosh. Macklin can't shoot, Summers can't defend these are flaws that would limit their participation in any offensive system.
I'm starting so see you as more of a fan of Pops and Esh's press and run style. But that's just not III's style. We beat Duke and Pitt and OSU last year by having an effective, efficient, organized team. I don't think it's an accident that we haven't won a title since the mid-80s and UCLA got to the final last year. It's that what works in this era is skilled basketball. And this team hasn't developed the skills yet to mesh with returning players (who are also playing like crap).
We will likely struggle every year in November under III. Just a given. But we will likely also be very good by the end of each year. And that's what he's playing for.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Nov 30, 2006 11:57:58 GMT -5
RDF, all three of this year's frosh are averaging more than 10 minutes per game (and not just "garbage time" minutes), and Summers has already moved into the starting lineup. I think that shows a willingness to play the guys that he recruits.
I think that last year was an anomaly -- JTIII limited the rotation considerably because he was working on developing a base of players to really learn the offense. I feel like I've seen more fast breaks and less "walk-up-the-court," then last year, and given the way Coach has been ticked off about a lot of the "walking," I wouldn't be surprised at all to see more of it as the season progresses.
I just feel like I've seen enough in the past couple year to say that I don't think that the team in January is going to bear much resemblance to what we saw last night.
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