TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Nov 12, 2006 10:32:16 GMT -5
From the description of what others provided, I'll just reiterate one major point that has to change--ROY HAS TO DUNK THE BALL WHEN HE CAN---he's too experienced and big to be throwing up weak crap around the tin--DUNK THE BALL!!! As someone who was there, I have to agree. Roy needs to finish strong--he put up a lot of touchy shots when he should have been throwing it down or going up hard.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 12, 2006 11:23:04 GMT -5
Hey- first game, first win. Although I'm sorry Tyler didn't shoot the ball better, I LOVE the fact that he came out and took twelve shots. He needs to continue being aggressive. I'm also very happy that Egerson and Sapp were productive.
I'm kind of glad this game was close because it will force us to recognize our weakness and try to correct them before we take on a tough opponent on Wednesday.
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Nov 12, 2006 11:24:16 GMT -5
from the radio feed it sounded like roy missed several chippies. was that really the case?
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Dhall
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Dhall on Nov 12, 2006 11:42:46 GMT -5
Why do people laud Crawford for "aggressiveness"? I call it selfishness and stupidity that the guy took 12 shots in a close game while Green, Hibbert and Wallace took fewer. He should not shoot the ball more than 3-5 times per game until he proves he can make them or if they are layups. Opposing teams can't double team Hibbert, Green and Wallace at the same time unless they are Seton Hall playing 6 on the court.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Nov 12, 2006 11:56:34 GMT -5
Why do people laud Crawford for "aggressiveness"? I call it selfishness and stupidity that the guy took 12 shots in a close game while Green, Hibbert and Wallace took fewer. He should not shoot the ball more than 3-5 times per game until he proves he can make them or if they are layups. Opposing teams can't double team Hibbert, Green and Wallace at the same time unless they are Seton Hall playing 6 on the court. I agree he shouldn't have taken 12 shots but I think much of the lauding comes from the fact that that was pretty much the only negative outcome of Tyler's aggressiveness. He led the team in shots taken but also in boards and steals in only 20 minutes of action. You can tell him to take fewer shots, that's correctable. But Tyler played a really aggressive game all around and that's what we want to see from TC.
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mapei
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Post by mapei on Nov 12, 2006 12:34:53 GMT -5
>from the radio feed it sounded like roy missed several chippies. was that really the case?
Absolutely. Note that the box score credits him with four offensive boards. Those were all after his own missed layups. He only got one rebound otherwise. There's no denying his size, and he shot FTs well, but that's about it. He needs to play better.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Nov 12, 2006 12:49:36 GMT -5
Note that the box score credits him with four offensive boards. Those were all after his own missed layups. He only got one rebound otherwise. Ahh, but that's the kind of strategery that has gotten Aaron Gray into the BE POY conversation!
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by bmartin on Nov 12, 2006 12:54:26 GMT -5
Roy rarely got a pass when he first came open. In most cases he was double or triple teamed, so he did not have the space to make a move or do anything other than keep the ball high and flick it toward the basket.
Roy, Green, and briefly Ewing posted up defenders several time but did not get entry passes. Against a packed-in zone, those openings are brief, usually after a ball reversal. Wallace and Green were the only guys who made good, quick passes at all. The Egerson three was the finish of a quick Wallace to Green (at the foul line, ala the cuse game) to the wing.
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hoyaLS05
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Post by hoyaLS05 on Nov 12, 2006 13:09:47 GMT -5
>from the radio feed it sounded like roy missed several chippies. was that really the case? Absolutely. Note that the box score credits him with four offensive boards. Those were all after his own missed layups. He only got one rebound otherwise. There's no denying his size, and he shot FTs well, but that's about it. He needs to play better. Roy missed six shots...all were layups.
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Post by HfieldHoya08 on Nov 12, 2006 15:24:00 GMT -5
Thinking about the shots that Tyler missed, most of them weren't truly bad shots, he usually gets a good look at the basket, he just wasn't quite able to execute. Hopefully against Vanderbilt he'll be more prepared as a started and can sink some more. I thought he did a nice job on the rebounding end of things.
As for the freshmen, while none scored, DaJuan had a sick block during the first half that was pretty awesome. Can't be that annoyed about a win, but hopefully this game was a working out the kinks so we can really show how good we can be at Vandy on Wednesday.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Nov 12, 2006 15:39:28 GMT -5
Tyler's form really changed even from warm-ups to in-game. I think he's rushing things and that the game might not be coming to him at the speed he likes it. While several people are faulting him for it the good thing is that he kept shooting. The only way to get out of a slump is to shoot your way out. I agree however that repition of bad form is not a great idea - but he's a college player he can figure out problems with his form. I wonder if a lot of Tyler's problems with his shot are mental.
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Post by HfieldHoya08 on Nov 12, 2006 15:57:12 GMT -5
I wonder if a lot of Tyler's problems with his shot are mental. I would have to agree that it could be more of a mental thing for Tyler - the transition from practice to game or from occasional bench player to a starter is huge. It doesn't matter if he hits them all in practice, its the games that count (as someone said before...) but its definitely true that the only way he can make more shots is to keep taking them. I have confidence in him... I think he'll eventually be playing a pretty solid part of our offense.
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FLHoya
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Proud Member of Generation Burton
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Post by FLHoya on Nov 12, 2006 16:01:35 GMT -5
Why do people laud Crawford for "aggressiveness"? I call it selfishness and stupidity that the guy took 12 shots in a close game while Green, Hibbert and Wallace took fewer. He should not shoot the ball more than 3-5 times per game until he proves he can make them or if they are layups. Opposing teams can't double team Hibbert, Green and Wallace at the same time unless they are Seton Hall playing 6 on the court. I agree he shouldn't have taken 12 shots but I think much of the lauding comes from the fact that that was pretty much the only negative outcome of Tyler's aggressiveness. He led the team in shots taken but also in boards and steals in only 20 minutes of action. You can tell him to take fewer shots, that's correctable. But Tyler played a really aggressive game all around and that's what we want to see from TC. A few thoughts on the Crawford discussion: 1. I don't think the reports about Tyler from the Kenner League or the preseason (I DID write quite a few of the former after all ) should be read to indicate that he has all of a sudden become a lights-out three point shooter or an instant replacement for Ashanti Cook or Darrell Owens. You don't go from very limited playing time to that level immediately. Rather, this summer I constantly pointed out not only Crawford's in-game production--which in summer leagues is admittedly often not a good predictor at all--but ALSO the amount of technical work on his shot and handle he was putting in prior to games. I did that because I wanted to show how Tyler was WORKING on becoming a better contributor in these areas. This is to say: I don't expect Tyler to consistently hit some ungodly number of three pointers per game. I DO expect, however, that he has reached the point where he should be confident in taking those open shots when given to him every single time. It's not Roy Hibbert out there shooting three pointers people! 2. Tyler was taking open looks in the game. Very few of his 8 three pointers if any were seriously contested and ill-advised shots. If I feel that one of our shooters is skilled and proficient enough from behind the arc, I'm going to feel confident in him taking open looks. There's this thread on this board that frequently follows losses in the JT3 era. It happened most often in the first season, but also after last year's Illinois game. It involves us bellyaching when all we do is pass around the perimeter aimlessly and force shots at the shot clock buzzer. We always say: why won't anyone TAKE AN OPEN SHOT! Well, Hartford packed in their zone and they weren't gonna have any of Roy Hibbert getting interior passes or backcuts from our other guys. Their coach admitted after the game if we'd hit our threes against that defense then Hartford had nothing to stop us. And we took open shots that were created through much more proficient perimeter movement than last year. The alternative is what I saw at South Florida last year, when Jeff was allegedly sick, Roy only played 21 minutes, and South Florida packed in a zone daring us to shoot. We shot only 4 three-pointers for the GAME, and on faaaaaaar more occassions than that players sat with wide open looks afraid to pull the trigger. I don't really fancy going back there again. 3. The criticism of Tyler needing to reign in his shot selection is somewhat of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" proposition in the world of the internet message board. There's really no positive there. Tyler goes 1-8 on mostly open shots, we criticize him for taking too many shots. But let's say Tyler DID start passing up shots at some point in the game, and passed the ball out of those chances. Suppose he went 1-4 from three. Would we all be saying: "Tyler Crawford really did a good job of recognizing his shot wasn't falling early on, and started to distribute the ball more"? NO! Because we very seldom if ever make a big deal out of those things when they happen even if we're all Sunday-Morning-Quarterbacking them right now. If anything, someone might say: "I wish Tyler had tried to shoot out of his slump...he was passing up wide open looks all second half! He needs more confidence!" Fact of the matter is, if a solid career shooting percentage from 3 point range AND a proven track record in games of nailing the big 3 point shot are gonna be pre-req's for some people, then you're left with Jonathan Wallace and that's it.
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hoyaboy1
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Nov 12, 2006 17:34:24 GMT -5
I don't entirely blame Crawford for taking 8 threes - my concern is more along the lines that it seems like our offense in that game was designed to generate a lot of threes, which probably isn't the best idea for this team. If Crawford and Sapp do nothing but stand behind the three point line (no cuts, no penetration, no picks, no screens, no attempts to post up smaller guards, nobody in the high post to pass to), then we can't really complain when they take a bunch of threes.
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vagrant
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by vagrant on Nov 12, 2006 18:53:14 GMT -5
I am not bothered by number of 3's taken by Crawford, after all they were apparently open shots. If the shot is there, and no better shot available, take it. What does bother me is that they were OPEN 3's and he still missed 7!! What will he do when he has to create his own? And this from a guy who apparently has been draining them. I will reserve my judgement until a few more games have been played but the guys around the park bench are questioning whether or not he is a 5 o'clocker, the guy who tears it up at batting practices.
--vagrant
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Dhall
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Dhall on Nov 12, 2006 19:51:54 GMT -5
The one good thing about Tyler taking shots is that it creates a lot of rebound and putback opportunities for Green and Wallace! This was our offense when we had Alonzo and Dikembe getting double- and triple-teamed.
We all hope Tyler turns into a reliable shooter and I don't care if he jacks it up (JTIII's own words) against the cupcakes on our schedule. But when we're playing a Vandy or a Big East team, he better let people like Green, Hibbert and Wallace decide the outcome of the game. If we lose because those three guys turn it over or miss their shots, I can live that. If we lose because role players are jacking it up, that's unacceptable and I'm sure Coach won't tolerate it either.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Nov 12, 2006 21:29:13 GMT -5
I agree that it was good that Tyler took 8 3's against Hartford. He got that out of his system, or at least I hope so, and when we really need him to make 3's against more formidable opponents, he will be worthy of the call.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Nov 12, 2006 23:08:30 GMT -5
agree that tyler had open shots he shoulda taken do worry about his stroke and form no worry about his huslte and defense and bounds.. thought egiie stroke especially on the critical three at the end that gave us some breathing room was sweet i think maybe hes the other three man if he just hits three or four a game to take the pressure off of jon ggo hoyas wil need threes to beat vandy and even more important need to defend the threes vs. vandy those threes killed us last year at our house go hoyas beat vandy sink the commadores or whatever.. ps my relatives from conn gave me grief about so close vs. hartford i rememinded them we beat hartford by ten and they beat quinnipiac by only seven when their average margin for the last six or seven years had been FORTY THREE FREAKING POINTS go hoyas beat vandy QUARD THE THREE ;D
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Nov 13, 2006 0:31:45 GMT -5
i dont blame tyler for taking open threes...i blame coach thompson for putting crawford in a position to take those threes...
CRAWFORD CANT PLAY IN THIS LEAGUE...im sure hes a nice kid and all of that...but give me a break
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Post by rudzy on Nov 13, 2006 0:42:01 GMT -5
We have all the talent we need to succeed and be a true contender. The problem with this game was that we were playing hartford. You could see it on the players faces when they came out of the tunnel, there was no fire in their eyes because they simply just assumed they would win. JT3 will punish them for that but as our competition gets better, so will the Hoyas. My only concern right now is that we don't take nay of the other cupcakes on out schedule this lightly, especially come march. tyler had an off game shooting and it will improve and i expect him to become a threat on the kickout. The season is a marathon not a sprint, and this was only our FIRST game. It should have been better, but so long as we improve every game there is no reason why we shouldnt be alive come april
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